Current Events > Val Kilmer, Bourdain's suicide, "selfish"

(+) Yeah! (+)

I genuinely wonder if people who are shitting on Kilmer have ever lost someone they care about to suicide. I lost my mom that way, and let me tell you, it wrecks the mental and emotional state of those left behind. Six years later and I still love, miss and am angry at my mom for taking herself away. Ya, I get it. Depression is a horrible disease. I know, I deal with it too. But to act like anger brought about by the anguish the people left behind somehow makes them bad or worse people is fucked up. Stop defending a person who deals with their pain by killing themselves only to turn around and attack a person who deals with their pain by venting their anger with words.
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FaultyGourry posted...

I genuinely wonder if people who are shitting on Kilmer have ever lost someone they care about to suicide. I lost my mom that way, and let me tell you, it wrecks the mental and emotional state of those left behind. Six years later and I still love, miss and am angry at my mom for taking herself away. Ya, I get it. Depression is a horrible disease. I know, I deal with it too. But to act like anger brought about by the anguish the people left behind somehow makes them bad or worse people is fucked up. Stop defending a person who deals with their pain by killing themselves only to turn around and attack a person who deals with their pain by venting their anger with words.

Well said

Minute posted...

Suicide is extremely selfish.

Nope. Anyone saying it's selfish is incredibly insensitive towards the issues that lead to suicide.

This is one of those things where it is better left unsaid.
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Minute posted...

Suicide is extremely selfish.

Sorry, it is. It's the ultimate selfish move. What about his daughter, his family, his friends, his filming crew? All those people are broken because he took the quick way out.

"shut the fuck up" yeah okay I get it, it's disrespectful to say that, but it's entirely true. The dude was a genuinely good guy it seemed like, and it's fucking awful the world is deprived of that... oh hey, that's another reason it's selfish.

Should he have been forced to stay in the limelight? No, and maybe he was forced and this was his way out, which makes it all the more tragic. However, it's still a selfish act.

Right, wanting someone to stay in constant pain and anguish just so they don't have to miss them is what, exactly?
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Your life, your rules on what to do with it.

Just don't leave a clusterfuck mess behind that the living have to clean up (which includes burdening your kin). THAT is undeniably selfish...
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FaultyGourry posted...

But to act like anger brought about by the anguish the people left behind somehow makes them bad or worse people is fucked up.

Publicly villainizing your friend without making any attempt to empathize with what he was dealing with objectively makes you a bad person. Shut the fuck up and learn to realize that it's not about you.
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LinksLiege posted...

The whole "suicide is selfish" thing is grotesque.

The last thing a suicidal person needs is shame on top of what they're already feeling, and it showcases how actually selfish other people are. People who likely haven't been in that state of mind before.

How does a corpse feel shame?
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All suicide is selfish.

I feel so bad for his daughter. Couldnt he have fucking toughed it out for her?
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When you have a child that you should be taking care of, suicide is unquestionably selfish.

And I am someone who's had a great deal of depression in the past. Never actually considered killing myself, but I have questioned the point of living.
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He's allowed to be angry and hurt. Nothing wrong with what he said, to me it's in the same vein as people deifying him today because he died.
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ShutTheF---_Up posted...

I like when idiots who've never had to experience vile and chronic mental pain talk about how "suicide is selfish"

I like how people can't perceive how "you should deal with your suffering because of ME" is selfish

I don't even care that anger is one of the five stages of grief, morons that lack perspective saying shit like this are a massive part of the problem and it's too funny that they can't figure that out

QFT.
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OpenlyGator posted...

Your life, your rules on what to do with it. Just don't leave a clusterfuck mess behind that the living have to clean up (which includes burdening your kin). THAT is undeniably selfish...

Someone wants to clock out early and they don't got any dependents? I don't feel it's my obligation to change their mind. I'm not going to argue with them as long as they're not leaving behind family that still needs support. The family wants to live; they shouldn't suffer because someone else decides to be emotionally negligent. Get the kids with someone safe. Leave grandma and grandpa with other relatives. Have the decency to get them off the crazy bus before you wreck it. You owe them that much.

Then decide what the fuck to do with your own life.

I have never had sympathies for anyone who committed suicide while endangering others.
They're weak-willed, ruthless people who make me wish there really is a punishment waiting for them in the afterlife.

I'm getting massive sociopathic vibes from this post
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NibeIungsnarf posted...

People who call suicide selfish are the lowest tiers of human existence. Not because they're wrong (depends on your point of view) but because there's literally no reason to make that statement other than being complete human dreg.

If there was no stigma more people would commit suicide as evidenced by the massive disparities in suicide rates between different cultures.

Kilmer isn't wrong. And he's saying it as a friend who is deeply hurt and upset.
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Fluttershy462 posted...

All suicide is selfish.

I feel so bad for his daughter. Couldnt he have fucking toughed it out for her?

OctilIery posted...

Nope. Anyone saying it's selfish is incredibly insensitive towards the issues that lead to suicide.

Minute posted...

Suicide is extremely selfish.

Sorry, it is. It's the ultimate selfish move. What about his daughter, his family, his friends, his filming crew? All those people are broken because he took the quick way out.

"shut the fuck up" yeah okay I get it, it's disrespectful to say that, but it's entirely true. The dude was a genuinely good guy it seemed like, and it's fucking awful the world is deprived of that... oh hey, that's another reason it's selfish.

Should he have been forced to stay in the limelight? No, and maybe he was forced and this was his way out, which makes it all the more tragic. However, it's still a selfish act.

Nah I completely agree with you. I just don't think people who do it care considering the majority of people are extremely selfish in their own right. When you say what about x and y and z and how they felt it's usually also fair to ask where they were? Did he reach out and they ignored them because they were too stressed with their own lives? Maybe they didn't wanna be dragged down by his negativity or depression. Maybe they couldn't comprehend what he was trying to express.

Could go either way. In reality though people are selfish creatures. Just ask anyone who prioritizes money over people. That would be those against wellfare or socialized medicine, taxes, illegal immigrants and revamping legal immigration, non-violent criminals. We could go on.

So once again while I agree with you completely and never think it's the right choice I also think my opinion means jack shit on the matter considering I'm just being selfish wanting them to stay around.
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I really only think suicide is selfish if you're the main contributing member of your family and they'll be left helpless without you. Otherwise, you're just expediting your inevitable demise. He was 61, he may not have had a whole lot of time left anyway. 60s are when people start dropping like flies.
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@ShutTheF---_Up
@Octillery

He had a daughter. How is suicide not selfish? While he shouldn't be demonized for committing suicide, the objectively right thing would have been to toughen up and live for his daughter.
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Scotty_Rogers posted...

@ShutTheF---_Up
@Octillery

He had a daughter. How is suicide not selfish? While he shouldn't be demonized for committing suicide, the objectively right thing would have been to toughen up and live for his daughter.

There is no objectivity here. You're only fooling yourself if you think there is.
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Scotty_Rogers posted...

@ShutTheF---_Up
@Octillery

He had a daughter. How is suicide not selfish? While he shouldn't be demonized for committing suicide, the objectively right thing would have been to toughen up and live for his daughter.

Because "toughen up" isn't something that works with when it comes to mental illness. I'm not defending the choice, suicide is never the right choice, but faced with the incredible pain that comes with depression and other mental illnesses, it isn't selfish by any means.

Val needs to shut the fuck up, the man isn't even in the ground yet.
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ShutTheF---_Up posted...

FaultyGourry posted...

But to act like anger brought about by the anguish the people left behind somehow makes them bad or worse people is fucked up.

Publicly villainizing your friend without making any attempt to empathize with what he was dealing with objectively makes you a bad person. Shut the fuck up and learn to realize that it's not about you.

"Voicing your anger and frustration at a friends actions after they caused you pain makes you a bad person." What a fucking load. And it IS about him. It's about how he fucking feels! Kilmer lost someone he cared about. You talk this load of shit while about one of Bourdain's friends without even knowing the guy, so have your own logic right back at you. His feelings and pain are not about you! They are about him and his friend. So why don't you shut the fuck up and learn to realize you don't get to tell people how they should grieve.
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Fluttershy462 posted...

All suicide is selfish.

I feel so bad for his daughter. Couldnt he have fucking toughed it out for her?

maybe it wasn't enough :(. unfortunately everyone around him has to suffer the consequences for remainder of life FML.
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FaultyGourry posted...

ShutTheF---_Up posted...

FaultyGourry posted...

But to act like anger brought about by the anguish the people left behind somehow makes them bad or worse people is fucked up.

Publicly villainizing your friend without making any attempt to empathize with what he was dealing with objectively makes you a bad person. Shut the fuck up and learn to realize that it's not about you.

"Voicing your anger and frustration at a friends actions after they caused you pain makes you a bad person." What a fucking load. And it IS about him. It's about how he fucking feels! Kilmer lost someone he cared about. You talk this load of shit while about one of Bourdain's friends without even knowing the guy, so have your own logic right back at you. His feelings and pain are not about you! They are about him and his friend. So why don't you shut the fuck up and learn to realize you don't get to tell people how they should grieve.

As I've discussed in previous points he shouldn't be told how to grieve. Just as people shouldn't try and tell people what to do with their life. Both are being selfish and there's nothing wrong with that.
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Zeeak4444 posted...

FaultyGourry posted...

ShutTheF---_Up posted...

FaultyGourry posted...

But to act like anger brought about by the anguish the people left behind somehow makes them bad or worse people is fucked up.

Publicly villainizing your friend without making any attempt to empathize with what he was dealing with objectively makes you a bad person. Shut the fuck up and learn to realize that it's not about you.

"Voicing your anger and frustration at a friends actions after they caused you pain makes you a bad person." What a fucking load. And it IS about him. It's about how he fucking feels! Kilmer lost someone he cared about. You talk this load of shit while about one of Bourdain's friends without even knowing the guy, so have your own logic right back at you. His feelings and pain are not about you! They are about him and his friend. So why don't you shut the fuck up and learn to realize you don't get to tell people how they should grieve.

As I've discussed in previous points he shouldn't be told how to grieve. Just as people shouldn't try and tell people what to do with their life. Both are being selfish and there's nothing wrong with that.

Exactly. One has to deal with things and do what they feel is right for them at the end of the day. Ya, that's selfish. That's what being human is all about.
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No worries after his carreer ends he will be drinking himself to death.

Val Kilmer can go eat a hundred thousand dicks
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I can see why people would say suicide is selfish, but I think it's more selfish to think that temporary grief outweighs the torture a suicidal person is going through all the time. and if you say his family and friends grief isn't just temporary, they should be able to get over it a lot easier than he could get past what he was going through
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thronedfire2 posted...

I can see why people would say suicide is selfish, but I think it's more selfish to think that temporary grief outweighs the torture a suicidal person is going through all the time. and if you say his family and friends grief isn't just temporary, they should be able to get over it a lot easier than he could get past what he was going through

It's not temporary for your kid man. They have to live with that the rest of their life, and maybe they will be okay. But maybe they won't. Maybe they'll feel like they weren't enough to make you want to stick around and have issues for the rest of their life.

You can't just say it's temporary mourning. A little girl lost her father today, a mother lost her son. And in a very hard way to swallow. Those are things you carry with you for life.
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OctilIery posted...

Scotty_Rogers posted...

@ShutTheF---_Up
@Octillery

He had a daughter. How is suicide not selfish? While he shouldn't be demonized for committing suicide, the objectively right thing would have been to toughen up and live for his daughter.

Because "toughen up" isn't something that works with when it comes to mental illness. I'm not defending the choice, suicide is never the right choice, but faced with the incredible pain that comes with depression and other mental illnesses, it isn't selfish by any means.

When you have a daughter who needs you around, it is selfish. Bourdain could have certainly gotten enough professional help to improve his state of mind.
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Scotty_Rogers posted...

When you have a daughter who needs you around, it is selfish. B

Nope. It's never selfish.

@OctilIery posted...

Scotty_Rogers posted...

When you have a daughter who needs you around, it is selfish. B

Nope. It's never selfish.

Yes, it is. You're only considering yourself when you do it. Do it, and you fuck up your daughter's life.
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Scotty_Rogers posted...

@OctilIery posted...

Scotty_Rogers posted...

When you have a daughter who needs you around, it is selfish. B

Nope. It's never selfish.

Yes, it is. You're only considering yourself when you do it. Do it, and you fuck up your daughter's life.

That's a bit assumptive. He could have been in a mental state where he convinced himself that she'd be better off without him in her life or some shit.

I'm not really defending it, think it's pretty obvious from my posts that I'm kind of disappointed. But the guy obviously wasn't in a clear state of mind, who knows what he was thinking and what kind of rationale he had for what he did.

I wonder if he relapsed or something. I've heard rumors that his girlfriend was seen with another man but.......come on. he was a 60 year old man, I'm sure he's been through rougher relationship bumps than that.
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Scotty_Rogers posted...

@OctilIery posted...

Scotty_Rogers posted...

When you have a daughter who needs you around, it is selfish. B

Nope. It's never selfish.

Yes, it is. You're only considering yourself when you do it. Do it, and you fuck up your daughter's life.

You don't understand how mental health issues like that can affect you. He very easily could've had himself convinced that he was fundamentally bad for the child and that him not being around would've been better for her.
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xBloodBrotherx posted...

You don't understand how mental health issues like that can affect you.

Yes, I do. Being mentally ill can make you do wrong things. No brainer. Still not a justification.

xBloodBrotherx posted...

He very easily could've had himself convinced that he was fundamentally bad for the child and that him not being around would've been better for her.

That's stupid for him to think. Offing himself obviously is not a solution for that.
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Scotty_Rogers posted...

@OctilIery posted...

Scotty_Rogers posted...

When you have a daughter who needs you around, it is selfish. B

Nope. It's never selfish.

Yes, it is. You're only considering yourself when you do it. Do it, and you fuck up your daughter's life.

Doesn't make it selfish.

He's a total asshole for saying it but he not wrong.
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FaultyGourry posted...

"Voicing your anger and frustration at a friends actions after they caused you pain makes you a bad person." What a fucking load

Did you even read what I posted? Or did you conveniently ignore me pointing out him publicly villainizing him (which is different from "voicing frustration") and demonizing the dude/writing him off as weak because you know it makes your point look stupid

FaultyGourry posted...

And it IS about him.

No, it's not. You know who you sound like rn? You remind me of this one guy who was aggravated with Cornell's death because he could no longer produce music for him with how absurdly disconnected you are from the concept of mental illness. It's not about you. People aren't obligated to stay alive because of you.

Scotty_Rogers posted...

That's stupid for him to think. Offing himself obviously is not a solution for that.

Wow it's almost as if people aren't in a rational state of mind when they're thinking about suicide!
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Scotty_Rogers posted...

xBloodBrotherx posted...

You don't understand how mental health issues like that can affect you.

Yes, I do. Being mentally ill can make you do wrong things. No brainer. Still not a justification.

xBloodBrotherx posted...

He very easily could've had himself convinced that he was fundamentally bad for the child and that him not being around would've been better for her.

That's stupid for him to think. Offing himself obviously is not a solution for that.

Wait, why am I trying to have a rational discussion about this with someone who faked their own suicide for attention?
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@ShutTheF---_Up posted...

Wow it's almost as if people aren't in a rational state of mind when they're thinking about suicide!

Being irrational doesn't make what you do unselfish.
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Allanon23 posted...

Kilmer isn't wrong. And he's saying it as a friend who is deeply hurt and upset.

Kilmer also had throat cancer, which ravaged him for a while. His perspective on Bourdain's death is bound to be different from a lot of other people's opinions.
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CanuckCowboy posted...

He's a total asshole for saying it but he not wrong.

He is, though.

ShutTheF---_Up posted...

I like when idiots who've never had to experience vile and chronic mental pain talk about how "suicide is selfish"

I like how people can't perceive how "you should deal with your suffering because of ME" is selfish

I don't even care that anger is one of the five stages of grief, morons that lack perspective saying shit like this are a massive part of the problem and it's too funny that they can't figure that out

I don't think it's selfish

but it does make you a fucking pussy
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ShutTheF---_Up posted...

Did you even read what I posted? Or did you conveniently ignore me pointing out him publicly villainizing him (which is different from "voicing frustration") and demonizing the dude/writing him off as weak because you know it makes your point look stupid

Saying someone is selfish when their actions caused you pain is not vilifying somebody. Kilmer is going through a hard time right now, and I would expect someone who's attempting to defend someone who killed themselves because of their pain to maybe, possibly, think about the pain of those he left behind. Have you ever lost someone to suicide? Have you lost anybody at all in any fucking way? Your emotions and mental state are not in the best of places when shit like this happens. Don't talk about Kilmer demonizing someone when he's talking open and honestly about someone he cared about and then turn around and demonize him for a situation and relationship you had no fucking part in.

ShutTheF---_Up posted...

No, it's not. You know who you sound like rn? You remind me of this one guy who was aggravated with Cornell's death because he could no longer produce music for him with how absurdly disconnected you are from the concept of mental illness. It's not about you. People aren't obligated to stay alive because of you.

You're the one trying to dictate how Kilmer should grieve because you don't like how he's doing so! Not once have I spoken ill of Bourdain or his actions. You keep talking up about the concept of mental illness without any regard for how much of a toll an action such as suicide can take on those left behind, including those with mental illness. I speak from experience when I say it fucks you up when someone you love and care about kills themself. So don't you dare talk down to me when you have no clue of what you're talking about.
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MarshallStack posted...

ShutTheF---_Up posted...

I like when idiots who've never had to experience vile and chronic mental pain talk about how "suicide is selfish"

I like how people can't perceive how "you should deal with your suffering because of ME" is selfish

I don't even care that anger is one of the five stages of grief, morons that lack perspective saying shit like this are a massive part of the problem and it's too funny that they can't figure that out

I don't think it's selfish

but it does make you a fucking pussy

Nope. But good job showing you're an awful person.

MarshallStack posted...

ShutTheF---_Up posted...

I like when idiots who've never had to experience vile and chronic mental pain talk about how "suicide is selfish"

I like how people can't perceive how "you should deal with your suffering because of ME" is selfish

I don't even care that anger is one of the five stages of grief, morons that lack perspective saying shit like this are a massive part of the problem and it's too funny that they can't figure that out

I don't think it's selfish

but it does make you a fucking pussy

Nobody gives a shit what you think

FaultyGourry posted...

Saying someone is selfish when their actions caused you pain is not vilifying somebody.

Okay, so you aren't reading what I said + you're stupidly understating what dude's doing because you agree with him. Gotcha
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MacadamianNut3 posted...

ShutTheF---_Up posted...

I like when idiots who've never had to experience vile and chronic mental pain talk about how "suicide is selfish"

I like how people can't perceive how "you should deal with your suffering because of ME" is selfish

This

I've been through vile and chronic mental pain and more. I think suicide is selfish if you have family and friends that care about you. If you have nothing like myself then it's not selfish. Idk it all depends.
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