Current Events > HUD Secretary Ben Carson to propose tripling rent for low-income people

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CatataFish462 04/27/18 9:43:09 PM #51:	Also don't be spending on drugs, stupid tattoos, Wal-Mart brand rim spinners, etc --- I am the Catata Fish Posted using GameFlux <cite>CatataFish462 posted [p:900432378] in HUD Secret... [t:76558959]...</cite> <quote>Also don't be spending on drugs, stupid tattoos, Wal-Mart brand rim spinners, etc</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
legendary_zell 04/27/18 9:43:39 PM #52:	FLUFFYGERM posted... legendary_zell posted... Tens of millions. Most poor people in my state for instance (Texas). They are having children for the exact reasons he listed, and because poor people generally have more children worldwide, and because people have children even in terrible situations because we are humans. It's not about "stupid decisions", it's about bad systems, at least not primarily. And again, you are so focused on moralizing, scolding, chastising, stigmatizing, these people that you continue to ignore three basic facts. 1) The children are alive already and have needs and will have to participate in society in the future 2) Not helping them is just crapping on them to hurt their parents and is cruel considering the structural factors that lead to their situations 3) Not helping them is just punching yourself in the face on a societal level Source that there are tens of millions of Americans who keep on having kids yet can't even afford $150 a month in rent? So you're just gonna ignore everything else I said that refutes your arguments? While also ignoring my argument that none of this should be happening in the first place because it is completely unnecessary? There's lots of people living on SSI who only get 800-1000 a month total that they have to use to pay for all of their expenses. And that's for a household. A tripling of rent for those people is a calamity. And I'll continue to call you out for focusing on the children. It's an easy tactic to trigger our moral judgment and dogwhistle but it's not ultimately a rational reason to reduce housing subsidies even if every single on of those children shouldn't have been born. --- http://i.imgur.com/0Bi86cp.gif <cite>legendary_zell posted [p:900432401] in HUD Secret... [t:76558959]...</cite> <quote><cite>FLUFFYGERM posted...</cite> <quote><cite>legendary_zell posted...</cite> <quote>Tens of millions. Most poor people in my state for instance (Texas). They are having children for the exact reasons he listed, and because poor people generally have more children worldwide, and because people have children even in terrible situations because we are humans. It's not about "stupid decisions", it's about bad systems, at least not primarily. And again, you are so focused on moralizing, scolding, chastising, stigmatizing, these people that you continue to ignore three basic facts. 1) The children are alive already and have needs and will have to participate in society in the future 2) Not helping them is just crapping on them to hurt their parents and is cruel considering the structural factors that lead to their situations 3) Not helping them is just punching yourself in the face on a societal level </quote> Source that there are tens of millions of Americans who keep on having kids yet can't even afford $150 a month in rent?</quote> So you're just gonna ignore everything else I said that refutes your arguments? While also ignoring my argument that none of this should be happening in the first place because it is completely unnecessary? There's lots of people living on SSI who only get 800-1000 a month total that they have to use to pay for all of their expenses. And that's for a household. A tripling of rent for those people is a calamity. And I'll continue to call you out for focusing on the children. It's an easy tactic to trigger our moral judgment and dogwhistle but it's not ultimately a rational reason to reduce housing subsidies even if every single on of those children shouldn't have been born.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Capn Circus 04/27/18 9:45:42 PM #53:	BloodyNate posted... Capn Circus posted... BloodyNate posted... Spooking posted... BloodyNate posted... And what if you have children (as most of these families do). That's why it's so unfair. Why do kidless tax payers have to pay for the ones that do? The people with kids put themselves in that situation, thus they have to pay for it. If you can't afford kids, don't have them. Having tax payers subsidize them removes their dignity, and is unfair to people who choose not to have kids. Yes, lets not have kids if we cant afford them. But hold up, I cant afford contraceptives, or was never educated about them. If I know I can go to Planned Parenthood, I will, but damn, my state defunded it almost entirely. Okay, Im pregnant. But damn, now I have to take off work to drive a long-ass way away to a clinic for an abortion (both of which could be expensive). Oh; and when I get there, protesters (who probably also say that the poor shouldnt have kids) are gonna shame my ass for trying to get rid of a child I cant afford. Maybe I go through with it, and I get back to work and my Christian employer has somehow found out about it and fired me. Damn, guess Im out of a job. :) For the vast majority of cases where multiple children are created, your description simply doesn't align with reality or common sense. To make such a claim would be admitting many of these people are of profound low intelligence. I can understand a 15 or 16 year old having an 'accident' and learning their lesson. But for many cases, it goes way beyond that scenario. I refuse to believe a 25 year old fixing to have her 3rd or 4th child hasn't figured out that having sex without a condom can result in pregnancy. Youre focusing on a very minute part of this issue, my friend. Since you chose to argue that supposedly these people simply aren't "educated" on pregnancies---even after having children---I chose to set you straight. They're doing it because they know the government will take care of their children and they will get extra benefits for their current classification + having another extra child. Women who are having multiple children know exactly how sex works, and it's disingenuous for you to say "Oh they weren't educated on that" or "they can't afford contraceptives" (as if contraceptives are even a necessity lol) --- "I think that man will be president right about the time when spaceships come down filled with dinosaurs in red capes" - Tom Hanks <cite>Capn Circus posted [p:900432507] in HUD Secret... [t:76558959]...</cite> <quote><cite>BloodyNate posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Capn Circus posted...</cite> <quote><cite>BloodyNate posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Spooking posted...</cite> <quote><cite>BloodyNate posted...</cite> <quote>And what if you have children (as most of these families do). </quote> That's why it's so unfair. Why do kidless tax payers have to pay for the ones that do? The people with kids put themselves in that situation, thus they have to pay for it. If you can't afford kids, don't have them. Having tax payers subsidize them removes their dignity, and is unfair to people who choose not to have kids.</quote> Yes, lets not have kids if we cant afford them. But hold up, I cant afford contraceptives, or was never educated about them. If I know I can go to Planned Parenthood, I will, but damn, my state defunded it almost entirely. Okay, Im pregnant. But damn, now I have to take off work to drive a long-ass way away to a clinic for an abortion (both of which could be expensive). Oh; and when I get there, protesters (who probably also say that the poor shouldnt have kids) are gonna shame my ass for trying to get rid of a child I cant afford. Maybe I go through with it, and I get back to work and my Christian employer has somehow found out about it and fired me. Damn, guess Im out of a job. :)</quote> For the vast majority of cases where multiple children are created, your description simply doesn't align with reality or common sense. To make such a claim would be admitting many of these people are of profound low intelligence. I can understand a 15 or 16 year old having an 'accident' and learning their lesson. But for many cases, it goes way beyond that scenario. I refuse to believe a 25 year old fixing to have her 3rd or 4th child hasn't figured out that having sex without a condom can result in pregnancy.</quote> Youre focusing on a very minute part of this issue, my friend.</quote> Since you chose to argue that supposedly these people simply aren't "educated" on pregnancies---even after having children---I chose to set you straight. They're doing it because they know the government will take care of their children and they will get extra benefits for their current classification + having another extra child. Women who are having multiple children know exactly how sex works, and it's disingenuous for you to say "Oh they weren't educated on that" or "they can't afford contraceptives" (as if contraceptives are even a necessity lol)</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
legendary_zell 04/27/18 9:45:58 PM #54:	Spooking posted... legendary_zell posted... Tens of millions. You're punishing hard-working, responsible people who don't make these mistakes. You're taking their money and giving it to people who made decisions they knew they couldn't handle. You, just like Proudclad are cutting out the vast majority of my post and instead parroting standard conservative rhetoric about makers and takers because you cannot actually respond to anything I've said. Do not quote me again until you address every point I made. --- http://i.imgur.com/0Bi86cp.gif <cite>legendary_zell posted [p:900432517] in HUD Secret... [t:76558959]...</cite> <quote><cite>Spooking posted...</cite> <quote><cite>legendary_zell posted...</cite> <quote>Tens of millions.</quote> You're punishing hard-working, responsible people who don't make these mistakes. You're taking their money and giving it to people who made decisions they knew they couldn't handle.</quote> You, just like Proudclad are cutting out the vast majority of my post and instead parroting standard conservative rhetoric about makers and takers because you cannot actually respond to anything I've said. Do not quote me again until you address every point I made.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
FLUFFYGERM 04/27/18 9:48:27 PM #55:	legendary_zell posted... FLUFFYGERM posted... legendary_zell posted... Tens of millions. Most poor people in my state for instance (Texas). They are having children for the exact reasons he listed, and because poor people generally have more children worldwide, and because people have children even in terrible situations because we are humans. It's not about "stupid decisions", it's about bad systems, at least not primarily. And again, you are so focused on moralizing, scolding, chastising, stigmatizing, these people that you continue to ignore three basic facts. 1) The children are alive already and have needs and will have to participate in society in the future 2) Not helping them is just crapping on them to hurt their parents and is cruel considering the structural factors that lead to their situations 3) Not helping them is just punching yourself in the face on a societal level Source that there are tens of millions of Americans who keep on having kids yet can't even afford $150 a month in rent? So you're just gonna ignore everything else I said that refutes your arguments? While also ignoring my argument that none of this should be happening in the first place because it is completely unnecessary? There's lots of people living on SSI who only get 800-1000 a month total that they have to use to pay for all of their expenses. And that's for a household. A tripling of rent for those people is a calamity. And I'll continue to call you out for focusing on the children. It's an easy tactic to trigger our moral judgment and dogwhistle but it's not ultimately a rational reason to reduce housing subsidies even if every single on of those children shouldn't have been born. How many of the people living on SSI of $800 to $1,000 per month are young enough to be having children? How many are having children? How many people will be affected by having to pay $150 for rent instead of $50? What are the numbers? Surely there's data somewhere. Or are you expecting someone to just accept whatever you say because of emotional "da children!111 da Babyz!!!!!!111" and the like? --- Do good. Eat communists. <cite>FLUFFYGERM posted [p:900432641] in HUD Secret... [t:76558959]...</cite> <quote><cite>legendary_zell posted...</cite> <quote><cite>FLUFFYGERM posted...</cite> <quote><cite>legendary_zell posted...</cite> <quote>Tens of millions. Most poor people in my state for instance (Texas). They are having children for the exact reasons he listed, and because poor people generally have more children worldwide, and because people have children even in terrible situations because we are humans. It's not about "stupid decisions", it's about bad systems, at least not primarily. And again, you are so focused on moralizing, scolding, chastising, stigmatizing, these people that you continue to ignore three basic facts. 1) The children are alive already and have needs and will have to participate in society in the future 2) Not helping them is just crapping on them to hurt their parents and is cruel considering the structural factors that lead to their situations 3) Not helping them is just punching yourself in the face on a societal level </quote> Source that there are tens of millions of Americans who keep on having kids yet can't even afford $150 a month in rent?</quote> So you're just gonna ignore everything else I said that refutes your arguments? While also ignoring my argument that none of this should be happening in the first place because it is completely unnecessary? There's lots of people living on SSI who only get 800-1000 a month total that they have to use to pay for all of their expenses. And that's for a household. A tripling of rent for those people is a calamity. And I'll continue to call you out for focusing on the children. It's an easy tactic to trigger our moral judgment and dogwhistle but it's not ultimately a rational reason to reduce housing subsidies even if every single on of those children shouldn't have been born.</quote> How many of the people living on SSI of $800 to $1,000 per month are young enough to be having children? How many are having children? How many people will be affected by having to pay $150 for rent instead of $50? What are the numbers? Surely there's data somewhere. Or are you expecting someone to just accept whatever you say because of emotional "da children!111 da Babyz!!!!!!111" and the like?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
FLUFFYGERM 04/27/18 9:50:10 PM #56:	legendary_zell posted... Spooking posted... legendary_zell posted... Tens of millions. You're punishing hard-working, responsible people who don't make these mistakes. You're taking their money and giving it to people who made decisions they knew they couldn't handle. You, just like Proudclad are cutting out the vast majority of my post and instead parroting standard conservative rhetoric about makers and takers because you cannot actually respond to anything I've said. Do not quote me again until you address every point I made. Oh shut the fuck up, dude. There's no conversation to be had if you don't even have data on how many people even fit the mold you're describing. For all we know you're making up an exaggerated set of assumptions to suit your premise. Without providing data, there is no conversation to have because anything else means just ASSUMING that you're right. If you're going to talk about the people who somehow are still having children despite being unable to afford $150 a month in rent, you'd damn well better provide evidence on the numbers involved. --- Do good. Eat communists. <cite>FLUFFYGERM posted [p:900432743] in HUD Secret... [t:76558959]...</cite> <quote><cite>legendary_zell posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Spooking posted...</cite> <quote><cite>legendary_zell posted...</cite> <quote>Tens of millions.</quote> You're punishing hard-working, responsible people who don't make these mistakes. You're taking their money and giving it to people who made decisions they knew they couldn't handle.</quote> You, just like Proudclad are cutting out the vast majority of my post and instead parroting standard conservative rhetoric about makers and takers because you cannot actually respond to anything I've said. Do not quote me again until you address every point I made.</quote> Oh shut the fuck up, dude. There's no conversation to be had if you don't even have data on how many people even fit the mold you're describing. For all we know you're making up an exaggerated set of assumptions to suit your premise. Without providing data, there is no conversation to have because anything else means just ASSUMING that you're right. If you're going to talk about the people who somehow are still having children despite being unable to afford $150 a month in rent, you'd damn well better provide evidence on the numbers involved.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
DrizztLink 04/27/18 9:51:01 PM #57:	legendary_zell posted... And I'll continue to call you out for focusing on the children. FLUFFYGERM posted... Or are you expecting someone to just accept whatever you say because of emotional "da children!111 da Babyz!!!!!!111" and the like? Jesus Christ he's become a parody of himself. --- http://guidesmedia.ign.com/guides/9846/images/slowpoke.gif https://i.imgur.com/6ezFwG1.png <cite>DrizztLink posted [p:900432784] in HUD Secret... [t:76558959]...</cite> <quote><cite>legendary_zell posted...</cite> <quote>And I'll continue to call you out for focusing on the children.</quote> <cite>FLUFFYGERM posted...</cite> <quote>Or are you expecting someone to just accept whatever you say because of emotional "da children!111 da Babyz!!!!!!111" and the like?</quote> Jesus Christ he's become a parody of himself.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
FLUFFYGERM 04/27/18 9:51:59 PM #58:	So basically you can impress @DrizztLink if you preemptively call out the legitimate criticisms of your position as if calling them out refutes them. Why don't you take a step back and think a little, dude? --- Do good. Eat communists. <cite>FLUFFYGERM posted [p:900432837] in HUD Secret... [t:76558959]...</cite> <quote>So basically you can impress @DrizztLink if you preemptively call out the legitimate criticisms of your position as if calling them out refutes them. Why don't you take a step back and think a little, dude?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
MrDrMan 04/27/18 9:52:24 PM #59:	Republican shithead doesn't care about poor people?! Shocking!! --- Pimpin aint easy Chiefs/Royals/Lakers 2015/2016 champs baby <cite>MrDrMan posted [p:900432856] in HUD Secret... [t:76558959]...</cite> <quote>Republican shithead doesn't care about poor people?! Shocking!!</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
FLUFFYGERM 04/27/18 9:53:42 PM #60:	MrDrMan posted... Republican shithead doesn't care about poor people?! Shocking!! Is it legitimate to say that reducing subsidies means you don't care about poor people? Does that mean that it's legitimate to say that we need to pay for the housing in full in order to care about poor people? If $150 is too steep, why not just have the government pay the entire thing and be done with it? --- Do good. Eat communists. <cite>FLUFFYGERM posted [p:900432918] in HUD Secret... [t:76558959]...</cite> <quote><cite>MrDrMan posted...</cite> <quote>Republican shithead doesn't care about poor people?! Shocking!!</quote> Is it legitimate to say that reducing subsidies means you don't care about poor people? Does that mean that it's legitimate to say that we need to pay for the housing in full in order to care about poor people? If $150 is too steep, why not just have the government pay the entire thing and be done with it?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
prince_leo 04/27/18 9:53:51 PM #61:	FLUFFYGERM posted... I want to see evidence of the supposed tens of millions of Americans who keep having kids but can't afford $150 in rent because of how hard life is. that's fair. i'm not opposed to raising the price $100 and I agree with the general sentiment that $150 is not an outrageous sum to ask. my question then becomes more of a "why?" as in, what's the argument for raising the price? cause it does just look like standard gop crusade on the poor --- https://imgur.com/uHUvpSH http://error1355.com/ce/prince_leo.html <cite>prince_leo posted [p:900432930] in HUD Secret... [t:76558959]...</cite> <quote><cite>FLUFFYGERM posted...</cite> <quote> I want to see evidence of the supposed tens of millions of Americans who keep having kids but can't afford $150 in rent because of how hard life is.</quote> that's fair. i'm not opposed to raising the price $100 and I agree with the general sentiment that $150 is not an outrageous sum to ask. my question then becomes more of a "why?" as in, what's the argument for raising the price? cause it does just look like standard gop crusade on the poor</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
DrizztLink 04/27/18 9:54:44 PM #62:	He says several things. Proudclown latches on to one. An eternity later. Proudclown remains latched on to one thing, but still thinks he's clever. --- http://guidesmedia.ign.com/guides/9846/images/slowpoke.gif https://i.imgur.com/6ezFwG1.png <cite>DrizztLink posted [p:900432988] in HUD Secret... [t:76558959]...</cite> <quote>He says several things. Proudclown latches on to one. An eternity later. Proudclown remains latched on to one thing, but still thinks he's clever.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
FLUFFYGERM 04/27/18 9:55:38 PM #63:	prince_leo posted... FLUFFYGERM posted... I want to see evidence of the supposed tens of millions of Americans who keep having kids but can't afford $150 in rent because of how hard life is. that's fair. i'm not opposed to raising the price $100 and I agree with the general sentiment that $150 is not an outrageous sum to ask. my question then becomes more of a "why?" as in, what's the argument for raising the price? cause it does just look like standard gop crusade on the poor If there was some crusade on the poor, they'd have gotten rid of the subsidy entirely. Maybe they evaluated the income of the people using the program and came to the conclusion that $150 would reduce the costs of the program and still be reasonable to afford. One again, consider the Vox link I provided that references how nationwide the average person making $10,000 a year spends 6% of their income on lottery tickets. That's 4 months of rent at the $150 rate from just not buying lottery tickets. So clearly people have bandwidth for spending at that income level. --- Do good. Eat communists. <cite>FLUFFYGERM posted [p:900433034] in HUD Secret... [t:76558959]...</cite> <quote><cite>prince_leo posted...</cite> <quote><cite>FLUFFYGERM posted...</cite> <quote> I want to see evidence of the supposed tens of millions of Americans who keep having kids but can't afford $150 in rent because of how hard life is.</quote> that's fair. i'm not opposed to raising the price $100 and I agree with the general sentiment that $150 is not an outrageous sum to ask. my question then becomes more of a "why?" as in, what's the argument for raising the price? cause it does just look like standard gop crusade on the poor</quote> If there was some crusade on the poor, they'd have gotten rid of the subsidy entirely. Maybe they evaluated the income of the people using the program and came to the conclusion that $150 would reduce the costs of the program and still be reasonable to afford. One again, consider the Vox link I provided that references how nationwide the average person making $10,000 a year spends 6% of their income on lottery tickets. That's 4 months of rent at the $150 rate from just not buying lottery tickets. So clearly people have bandwidth for spending at that income level.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
FLUFFYGERM 04/27/18 9:56:35 PM #64:	DrizztLink posted... He says several things. Proudclown latches on to one. An eternity later. Proudclown remains latched on to one thing, but still thinks he's clever. It is absolutely critical to the conversation, dude. Stop being dishonest. $50 to $150 is not a big increase. If someone is arguing that it is, because of X and Y variables...it's entirely fair to ask them to see data on X and Y variables in order to evaluate whether or not that criticism against the increase is legitimate. --- Do good. Eat communists. <cite>FLUFFYGERM posted [p:900433076] in HUD Secret... [t:76558959]...</cite> <quote><cite>DrizztLink posted...</cite> <quote>He says several things. Proudclown latches on to one. An eternity later. Proudclown remains latched on to one thing, but still thinks he's clever.</quote> It is absolutely critical to the conversation, dude. Stop being dishonest. $50 to $150 is not a big increase. If someone is arguing that it is, because of X and Y variables...it's entirely fair to ask them to see data on X and Y variables in order to evaluate whether or not that criticism against the increase is legitimate.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
A_Good_Boy 04/27/18 10:00:40 PM #65:	It says there are 64 posts in this topic yet the last one I can see says it's post 62. Weird, did gamefaqs glitch? --- Who is? I am! <cite>A_Good_Boy posted [p:900433268] in HUD Secret... [t:76558959]...</cite> <quote>It says there are 64 posts in this topic yet the last one I can see says it's post 62. Weird, did gamefaqs glitch?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Giblet_Enjoyer 04/27/18 10:01:49 PM #66:	I wonder how many righties in support of this because $1200 a year is nothing were also cheerleading Trump for his ~$900 a year tax break for the average household :thinkyface: --- He which make friends with scorpion, soon come to find out what a scorpion does - they bite people with its tail --ancient Chinese proverb <cite>Giblet_Enjoyer posted [p:900433318] in HUD Secret... [t:76558959]...</cite> <quote>I wonder how many righties in support of this because $1200 a year is nothing were also cheerleading Trump for his ~$900 a year tax break for the average household :thinkyface:</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
MarqueeSeries 04/27/18 10:04:57 PM #67:	Spooking posted... MarqueeSeries posted... But...why tho? To treat everybody equally. If folks are paying $1200 for rent, why do some get special treatment and only pay $50? That's right, $50. All Mr. Carson doing is increasing it to $150 (proposing, at least). Probably because it's your choice to live in a $1200/mo apartment, if you can afford it I'm paying 525, and I'd be mad as fuck if my rent went to 625. --- Posted with GameRaven 3.4 <cite>MarqueeSeries posted [p:900433445] in HUD Secret... [t:76558959]...</cite> <quote><cite>Spooking posted...</cite> <quote><cite>MarqueeSeries posted...</cite> <quote> But...why tho?</quote> To treat everybody equally. If folks are paying $1200 for rent, why do some get special treatment and only pay $50? That's right, $50. All Mr. Carson doing is increasing it to $150 (proposing, at least).</quote> Probably because it's your choice to live in a $1200/mo apartment, if you can afford it I'm paying 525, and I'd be mad as fuck if my rent went to 625.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
legendary_zell 04/27/18 10:05:01 PM #68:	When the average monthly disability payment is $1197 per month, that is a big increase. Many people get less than that. Many of my clients got by on less than $800 a month. There are tens of millions of people who would be unnecessarily strained by this. Because that number is based on the number of people who receive disability, who work part time or low wage jobs, who don't work etc. Because it's something that shouldn't even be considered and is completely unjustified. Your point about the lottery tickets doesn't change that and just further highlights the lack of information and resources these people have, and yet you're still trying to justify raising their rent. --- http://i.imgur.com/0Bi86cp.gif <cite>legendary_zell posted [p:900433446] in HUD Secret... [t:76558959]...</cite> <quote>When the average monthly disability payment is $1197 per month, that is a big increase. Many people get less than that. Many of my clients got by on less than $800 a month. There are tens of millions of people who would be unnecessarily strained by this. Because that number is based on the number of people who receive disability, who work part time or low wage jobs, who don't work etc. Because it's something that shouldn't even be considered and is completely unjustified. Your point about the lottery tickets doesn't change that and just further highlights the lack of information and resources these people have, and yet you're still trying to justify raising their rent.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Mal_Fet 04/27/18 10:06:47 PM #69:	MarqueeSeries posted... I'm paying 525, and I'd be mad as fuck if my rent went to 625. Are taxpayers currently paying $100 of your monthly rent? --- Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear. -George Orwell <cite>Mal_Fet posted [p:900433525] in HUD Secret... [t:76558959]...</cite> <quote><cite>MarqueeSeries posted...</cite> <quote>I'm paying 525, and I'd be mad as fuck if my rent went to 625.</quote> Are taxpayers currently paying $100 of your monthly rent?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
FLUFFYGERM 04/27/18 10:10:43 PM #70:	Alright well it's obviously pointless to try to reason with you legendary_zell, because you're now just spewing forth anecdotes about your own clients. You're completely unable to be objective or have a serious conversation that ever involves anything besides simply reaffirming leftism. So whatever, enjoy your echo chamber. You keep asserting shit about tens of millions of people being unable to handle a rent increase from $50 a month to $150 a month but there's absolutely no evidence presented thus far. The only evidence anyone provided for anything was my link that talks about how poor people are disproportionately buying lottery tickets, on average spending 6% of their rent when they don't need to. Your only response to that was to say it doesn't matter and to try to spin it into something that somehow proves the unsubstantiated points you've been trying to make. --- Do good. Eat communists. <cite>FLUFFYGERM posted [p:900433695] in HUD Secret... [t:76558959]...</cite> <quote>Alright well it's obviously pointless to try to reason with you legendary_zell, because you're now just spewing forth anecdotes about your own clients. You're completely unable to be objective or have a serious conversation that ever involves anything besides simply reaffirming leftism. So whatever, enjoy your echo chamber. You keep asserting shit about tens of millions of people being unable to handle a rent increase from $50 a month to $150 a month but there's absolutely no evidence presented thus far. The only evidence anyone provided for anything was my link that talks about how poor people are disproportionately buying lottery tickets, on average spending 6% of their rent when they don't need to. Your only response to that was to say it doesn't matter and to try to spin it into something that somehow proves the unsubstantiated points you've been trying to make.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
LightningAce11 04/27/18 10:11:46 PM #71:	So if taxpayers weren't paying for the majority of the rent, would people be fine with it staying $50? --- "I'm an atheist too but still believe in hell. That's where you're headed pal." - Mr_Karate_II <cite>LightningAce11 posted [p:900433744] in HUD Secret... [t:76558959]...</cite> <quote>So if taxpayers weren't paying for the majority of the rent, would people be fine with it staying $50?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Mal_Fet 04/27/18 10:12:51 PM #72:	LightningAce11 posted... So if taxpayers weren't paying for the majority of the rent, would people be fine with it staying $50? If taxpayers weren't paying their rent then Carson wouldn't be able to raise anyone's rent. --- Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear. -George Orwell <cite>Mal_Fet posted [p:900433791] in HUD Secret... [t:76558959]...</cite> <quote><cite>LightningAce11 posted...</cite> <quote>So if taxpayers weren't paying for the majority of the rent, would people be fine with it staying $50?</quote> If taxpayers weren't paying their rent then Carson wouldn't be able to raise anyone's rent.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
A_Good_Boy 04/27/18 10:13:41 PM #73:	Or afford his table and furniture set. --- Who is? I am! <cite>A_Good_Boy posted [p:900433837] in HUD Secret... [t:76558959]...</cite> <quote>Or afford his table and furniture set.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Bio1590 04/27/18 10:14:02 PM #74:	FLUFFYGERM posted... You're completely unable to be objective or have a serious conversation that ever involves anything besides simply reaffirming leftism. So whatever, enjoy your echo chamber. Oh the ironing. --- http://i.imgur.com/bbRWLI8.gif https://i.imgur.com/A0BErSV.jpg <cite>Bio1590 posted [p:900433850] in HUD Secret... [t:76558959]...</cite> <quote><cite>FLUFFYGERM posted...</cite> <quote>You're completely unable to be objective or have a serious conversation that ever involves anything besides simply reaffirming leftism. So whatever, enjoy your echo chamber.</quote> Oh the ironing.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
FLUFFYGERM 04/27/18 10:14:54 PM #75:	Bio1590 posted... FLUFFYGERM posted... You're completely unable to be objective or have a serious conversation that ever involves anything besides simply reaffirming leftism. So whatever, enjoy your echo chamber. Oh the ironing. I'm the only one who has presented data so far. The numbers don't lie. --- Do good. Eat communists. <cite>FLUFFYGERM posted [p:900433895] in HUD Secret... [t:76558959]...</cite> <quote><cite>Bio1590 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>FLUFFYGERM posted...</cite> <quote>You're completely unable to be objective or have a serious conversation that ever involves anything besides simply reaffirming leftism. So whatever, enjoy your echo chamber.</quote> Oh the ironing.</quote> I'm the only one who has presented data so far. The numbers don't lie.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Bishop9800 04/27/18 10:20:15 PM #76:	A_Good_Boy posted... Or afford his table and furniture set. You know they are going to ignore that right? --- I don't have to insult you. I have proven that you are a hypocrite and a fool. That's not insulting you, that's exposing you. PSN-Bishop9800 <cite>Bishop9800 posted [p:900434160] in HUD Secret... [t:76558959]...</cite> <quote><cite>A_Good_Boy posted...</cite> <quote>Or afford his table and furniture set.</quote> You know they are going to ignore that right?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
legendary_zell 04/27/18 10:20:36 PM #77:	FLUFFYGERM posted... Alright well it's obviously pointless to try to reason with you legendary_zell, because you're now just spewing forth anecdotes about your own clients. You're completely unable to be objective or have a serious conversation that ever involves anything besides simply reaffirming leftism. So whatever, enjoy your echo chamber. You keep asserting shit about tens of millions of people being unable to handle a rent increase from $50 a month to $150 a month but there's absolutely no evidence presented thus far. The only evidence anyone provided for anything was my link that talks about how poor people are disproportionately buying lottery tickets, on average spending 6% of their rent when they don't need to. Your only response to that was to say it doesn't matter and to try to spin it into something that somehow proves the unsubstantiated points you've been trying to make. I literally told you the class of people I'm talking about, told you how I calculated the number, told you the average amount of disability payments. Do you need me to post statistics to prove that people below the poverty line or on fixed incomes live paycheck to paycheck as well? You know the comments about my work experiences aren't central to that point. This isn't about leftism, it's about reality. And about the lottery tickets, it's perverse for someone to highlight lottery tickets, proof of financial illiteracy and economic hopelessness/wishful thinking to be a justification for raising people's rent. You argue in this bullheaded, disingenuous way regardless of what the subject is. It used to be religion, now it's your personal crusade against leftism and low rent. You have a fundamental problem in the way you think about complex subjects and the way you approach people. That is the reason people here track your alts so they don't get tricked into engaging, not your conservatism. --- http://i.imgur.com/0Bi86cp.gif <cite>legendary_zell posted [p:900434185] in HUD Secret... [t:76558959]...</cite> <quote><cite>FLUFFYGERM posted...</cite> <quote>Alright well it's obviously pointless to try to reason with you legendary_zell, because you're now just spewing forth anecdotes about your own clients. You're completely unable to be objective or have a serious conversation that ever involves anything besides simply reaffirming leftism. So whatever, enjoy your echo chamber. You keep asserting shit about tens of millions of people being unable to handle a rent increase from $50 a month to $150 a month but there's absolutely no evidence presented thus far. The only evidence anyone provided for anything was my link that talks about how poor people are disproportionately buying lottery tickets, on average spending 6% of their rent when they don't need to. Your only response to that was to say it doesn't matter and to try to spin it into something that somehow proves the unsubstantiated points you've been trying to make.</quote> I literally told you the class of people I'm talking about, told you how I calculated the number, told you the average amount of disability payments. Do you need me to post statistics to prove that people below the poverty line or on fixed incomes live paycheck to paycheck as well? You know the comments about my work experiences aren't central to that point. This isn't about leftism, it's about reality. And about the lottery tickets, it's perverse for someone to highlight lottery tickets, proof of financial illiteracy and economic hopelessness/wishful thinking to be a justification for raising people's rent. You argue in this bullheaded, disingenuous way regardless of what the subject is. It used to be religion, now it's your personal crusade against leftism and low rent. You have a fundamental problem in the way you think about complex subjects and the way you approach people. That is the reason people here track your alts so they don't get tricked into engaging, not your conservatism.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
creativerealms 04/27/18 10:21:28 PM #78:	Mal_Fet posted... LightningAce11 posted... So if taxpayers weren't paying for the majority of the rent, would people be fine with it staying $50? If taxpayers weren't paying their rent then Carson wouldn't be able to raise anyone's rent. Nor would he be able to take HUD money to refurbish his house. --- No sig. <cite>creativerealms posted [p:900434238] in HUD Secret... [t:76558959]...</cite> <quote><cite>Mal_Fet posted...</cite> <quote><cite>LightningAce11 posted...</cite> <quote>So if taxpayers weren't paying for the majority of the rent, would people be fine with it staying $50?</quote> If taxpayers weren't paying their rent then Carson wouldn't be able to raise anyone's rent.</quote> Nor would he be able to take HUD money to refurbish his house.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
kingdrake2 04/27/18 10:22:39 PM #79:	in oregon, it's 30% of income so it's much more than 150$. only thing that sucks is income requirements and a long waiting list. --- I'm pretty much Stu from Rugrats making pudding at 4 in morning because I've lost control of my life - Polycosm <cite>kingdrake2 posted [p:900434287] in HUD Secret... [t:76558959]...</cite> <quote>in oregon, it's 30% of income so it's much more than 150$. only thing that sucks is income requirements and a long waiting list.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Mal_Fet 04/27/18 10:22:54 PM #80:	legendary_zell posted... You argue in this bullheaded, disingenuous way regardless of what the subject is. It used to be religion, now it's your personal crusade against leftism and low rent. You have a fundamental problem in the way you think about complex subjects and the way you approach people. That is the reason people here track your alts so they don't get tricked into engaging, not your conservatism. Can you or can you not explain why taxpayers should continue subsidizing rent when we have decades of precedent that things like rent control don't lead to better-off citizens --- Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear. -George Orwell <cite>Mal_Fet posted [p:900434302] in HUD Secret... [t:76558959]...</cite> <quote><cite>legendary_zell posted...</cite> <quote> You argue in this bullheaded, disingenuous way regardless of what the subject is. It used to be religion, now it's your personal crusade against leftism and low rent. You have a fundamental problem in the way you think about complex subjects and the way you approach people. That is the reason people here track your alts so they don't get tricked into engaging, not your conservatism.</quote> Can you or can you not explain why taxpayers should continue subsidizing rent when we have decades of precedent that things like rent control don't lead to better-off citizens</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
FLUFFYGERM 04/27/18 10:29:31 PM #81:	legendary_zell posted... FLUFFYGERM posted... Alright well it's obviously pointless to try to reason with you legendary_zell, because you're now just spewing forth anecdotes about your own clients. You're completely unable to be objective or have a serious conversation that ever involves anything besides simply reaffirming leftism. So whatever, enjoy your echo chamber. You keep asserting shit about tens of millions of people being unable to handle a rent increase from $50 a month to $150 a month but there's absolutely no evidence presented thus far. The only evidence anyone provided for anything was my link that talks about how poor people are disproportionately buying lottery tickets, on average spending 6% of their rent when they don't need to. Your only response to that was to say it doesn't matter and to try to spin it into something that somehow proves the unsubstantiated points you've been trying to make. I literally told you the class of people I'm talking about, told you how I calculated the number, told you the average amount of disability payments. Do you need me to post statistics to prove that people below the poverty line or on fixed incomes live paycheck to paycheck as well? You know the comments about my work experiences aren't central to that point. This isn't about leftism, it's about reality. And about the lottery tickets, it's perverse for someone to highlight lottery tickets, proof of financial illiteracy and economic hopelessness/wishful thinking to be a justification for raising people's rent. You argue in this bullheaded, disingenuous way regardless of what the subject is. It used to be religion, now it's your personal crusade against leftism and low rent. You have a fundamental problem in the way you think about complex subjects and the way you approach people. That is the reason people here track your alts so they don't get tricked into engaging, not your conservatism. There is no need to track my alts because I don't hide that it's me. I could easily make an account that no one knows is me and post on that instead, but I don't. Your assessments about me being bullheaded and disingenuous are 100% applicable to yourself, but you lack the self-awareness to ask if you're that way before telling others that they are that way. At no point did you answer the central question I asked you at the beginning of this exchange. You didn't answer it because you don't know the answer. Might as well just admit it. At no point did I say that the lottery tickets are justification for raising rent. I pointed out that poor people buy lottery tickets as a rebuttal to @BloodyNate 's exaggerated fake outrage when another poster said poor people buy lottery tickets. The lottery ticket purchases are evidence that people need financial literacy, not punishment. My proposed solutions to these types of problems are pragmatic and effective. Why don't we educate these people on why it's disadvantageous to have children before you can afford them, why it's pointless to buy lottery tickets, how else they can budget their incomes in order to save and build up a safety net, etc? There are a variety of resources available for all of these ventures. In fact it would even be more cost effective to the state to build up more libraries in these communities, along with tax-funded contraceptives in order to reduce the birth rate. Personal responsibility is the major aspect in whether or not someone becomes this poor and stays this poor. You refuse to acknowledge that, which prevents you from offering effective solutions. --- Do good. Eat communists. <cite>FLUFFYGERM posted [p:900434605] in HUD Secret... [t:76558959]...</cite> <quote><cite>legendary_zell posted...</cite> <quote><cite>FLUFFYGERM posted...</cite> <quote>Alright well it's obviously pointless to try to reason with you legendary_zell, because you're now just spewing forth anecdotes about your own clients. You're completely unable to be objective or have a serious conversation that ever involves anything besides simply reaffirming leftism. So whatever, enjoy your echo chamber. You keep asserting shit about tens of millions of people being unable to handle a rent increase from $50 a month to $150 a month but there's absolutely no evidence presented thus far. The only evidence anyone provided for anything was my link that talks about how poor people are disproportionately buying lottery tickets, on average spending 6% of their rent when they don't need to. Your only response to that was to say it doesn't matter and to try to spin it into something that somehow proves the unsubstantiated points you've been trying to make.</quote> I literally told you the class of people I'm talking about, told you how I calculated the number, told you the average amount of disability payments. Do you need me to post statistics to prove that people below the poverty line or on fixed incomes live paycheck to paycheck as well? You know the comments about my work experiences aren't central to that point. This isn't about leftism, it's about reality. And about the lottery tickets, it's perverse for someone to highlight lottery tickets, proof of financial illiteracy and economic hopelessness/wishful thinking to be a justification for raising people's rent. You argue in this bullheaded, disingenuous way regardless of what the subject is. It used to be religion, now it's your personal crusade against leftism and low rent. You have a fundamental problem in the way you think about complex subjects and the way you approach people. That is the reason people here track your alts so they don't get tricked into engaging, not your conservatism.</quote> There is no need to track my alts because I don't hide that it's me. I could easily make an account that no one knows is me and post on that instead, but I don't. Your assessments about me being bullheaded and disingenuous are 100% applicable to yourself, but you lack the self-awareness to ask if you're that way before telling others that they are that way. At no point did you answer the central question I asked you at the beginning of this exchange. You didn't answer it because you don't know the answer. Might as well just admit it. At no point did I say that the lottery tickets are justification for raising rent. I pointed out that poor people buy lottery tickets as a rebuttal to @BloodyNate 's exaggerated fake outrage when another poster said poor people buy lottery tickets. The lottery ticket purchases are evidence that people need financial literacy, not punishment. My proposed solutions to these types of problems are pragmatic and effective. Why don't we educate these people on why it's disadvantageous to have children before you can afford them, why it's pointless to buy lottery tickets, how else they can budget their incomes in order to save and build up a safety net, etc? There are a variety of resources available for all of these ventures. In fact it would even be more cost effective to the state to build up more libraries in these communities, along with tax-funded contraceptives in order to reduce the birth rate. Personal responsibility is the major aspect in whether or not someone becomes this poor and stays this poor. You refuse to acknowledge that, which prevents you from offering effective solutions.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
FLUFFYGERM 04/27/18 10:30:01 PM #82:	Mal_Fet posted... legendary_zell posted... You argue in this bullheaded, disingenuous way regardless of what the subject is. It used to be religion, now it's your personal crusade against leftism and low rent. You have a fundamental problem in the way you think about complex subjects and the way you approach people. That is the reason people here track your alts so they don't get tricked into engaging, not your conservatism. Can you or can you not explain why taxpayers should continue subsidizing rent when we have decades of precedent that things like rent control don't lead to better-off citizens Why would he bother to explain anything when he can just insist that I'm bullheaded, disingenuous, unable to think about complex subject, etc? --- Do good. Eat communists. <cite>FLUFFYGERM posted [p:900434628] in HUD Secret... [t:76558959]...</cite> <quote><cite>Mal_Fet posted...</cite> <quote><cite>legendary_zell posted...</cite> <quote> You argue in this bullheaded, disingenuous way regardless of what the subject is. It used to be religion, now it's your personal crusade against leftism and low rent. You have a fundamental problem in the way you think about complex subjects and the way you approach people. That is the reason people here track your alts so they don't get tricked into engaging, not your conservatism.</quote> Can you or can you not explain why taxpayers should continue subsidizing rent when we have decades of precedent that things like rent control don't lead to better-off citizens</quote> Why would he bother to explain anything when he can just insist that I'm bullheaded, disingenuous, unable to think about complex subject, etc?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Fam_Fam 04/27/18 10:34:08 PM #83:	increasing the rent from 50 to 150 allows more people to be served by the programs <cite>Fam_Fam posted [p:900434821] in HUD Secret... [t:76558959]...</cite> <quote>increasing the rent from 50 to 150 allows more people to be served by the programs</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
LinkAndEpona 04/27/18 10:34:33 PM #84:	Can I just lie to the man and say I'm a poor ghetto? I'd like to have a $150 apartment just as an office or something, damn. <cite>LinkAndEpona posted [p:900434834] in HUD Secret... [t:76558959]...</cite> <quote>Can I just lie to the man and say I'm a poor ghetto? I'd like to have a $150 apartment just as an office or something, damn.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
FLUFFYGERM 04/27/18 10:36:58 PM #85:	Fam_Fam posted... increasing the rent from 50 to 150 allows more people to be served by the programs That's an interesting perspective. Technically it's true, as it means more subsidy can be stretched across more families. Will be interesting to track the results and see what happens. --- Do good. Eat communists. <cite>FLUFFYGERM posted [p:900434972] in HUD Secret... [t:76558959]...</cite> <quote><cite>Fam_Fam posted...</cite> <quote>increasing the rent from 50 to 150 allows more people to be served by the programs</quote> That's an interesting perspective. Technically it's true, as it means more subsidy can be stretched across more families. Will be interesting to track the results and see what happens.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
RainblowDash 04/27/18 10:37:05 PM #86:	It's weird, it's like if these peeps are so poor then they aren't doing a whole lot anyway, so this increase should be fairly manageable. --- Ryzen 7 1700X - Sapphire RX Vega 64 - ASRock Fatal1ty X370 Samsung 960 EVO 500gb - G.Skill TridentZ RGB 16gb - Silverstone SX700 700W <cite>RainblowDash posted [p:900434978] in HUD Secret... [t:76558959]...</cite> <quote>It's weird, it's like if these peeps are so poor then they aren't doing a whole lot anyway, so this increase should be fairly manageable.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Bishop9800 04/27/18 10:45:22 PM #87:	LinkAndEpona posted... Can I just lie to the man and say I'm a poor ghetto? What the fuck is a "poor ghetto"? --- I don't have to insult you. I have proven that you are a hypocrite and a fool. That's not insulting you, that's exposing you. PSN-Bishop9800 <cite>Bishop9800 posted [p:900435379] in HUD Secret... [t:76558959]...</cite> <quote><cite>LinkAndEpona posted...</cite> <quote>Can I just lie to the man and say I'm a poor ghetto?</quote> What the fuck is a "poor ghetto"?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Current Events > HUD Secretary Ben Carson to propose tripling rent for low-income people (+) Yeah! (+)

Current Events > HUD Secretary Ben Carson to propose tripling rent for low-income people