Current Events > Why hasn't Real Communism been tried yet?

(+) Yeah! (+)

Human nature.
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Questionmarktarius posted...

nicklebro posted...

Because it always disintegrates before full communism can be reached.

Nobody seems to even know what that even means, which certainly isn't' helping.

Well to Communists, "real communism" will be the one that actually ends up working. To actual intelligent, non brainwashed people, we know that all communism is real communism and it has a 100% fail rate.
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Because you touch yourself at night.
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Real communism aims toward the workers, the laborers, being in direct ownership of the business, the profit, the debt, the building, etc. etc. At some level, it is like a labor union except that entity isn't there because that is how business decisions would be made. In Yugoslavia, the workers, voted for who was going to represent them if there were more than ~25 workers, but they'd all still vote on what changes would be made and so forth. Due to the decentralized, yet democratic structure of the successful businesses, the economy made it so they never taken over by the USSR.

Marshall Tito did a lot of stuff wrong, but the economic structure there was serviceable.

People don't seem to get that Communism and Socialism are economic systems first, which means they can be implemented in despotic states, authoritarian states, democratic states, anarchist states, libertarian states, etc. etc. They always associate them with the totalitarian fascist states, which never can properly serve as an example of an economic system where the workers are in direct ownership of their place of employment. Yes, the states that called themselves Communist were under totalitarian/authoritarian and barbarous leadership, but they were also all countries that were not stable or solvent when they were attempting to do this. Along the way, they became fascist states where the workers were not seeing the means of production go to their pockets at all. The state determining where to give out food rations was very much tied to the fact that they destroyed any chance for any free market properties, like innovation, competition, etc. etc. A communist and socialist economies are possible in non-authoritarian shitholes and have already been observed in such places. You can have a communist economy with capitalist elements embedded in it. You can have a capitalist economy with socialist elements embedded into it. You just have to implement them in a consistent manner. I don't know what their system looks like right now, but for health care in Switzerland, they give each citizen a health credit that was ~$3400 where the state would cover any health care, prescription costs, etc. up to that amount. Any further costs that year would be aided by the government. At the most, they would only match your cost so you'd only pay half, but iirc, that was after ~80-90k medical costs. It would start off where you would only need to pay 20% of the cost. Anyway, that money comes out of taxes and it's still capitalist. Y'all really don't know what you speak of when you fling these terms around.
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Forlorn_Ass posted...

Capitalism is the most fair system there is.

Yes its soooooo fair, that most people cannot afford medical care, most millennials will never be able to own a house, and most of the country is piled in debt while the wealthy sit on their thrones.

chill02 posted...

https://imgur.com/1y7FP6I

LMAO

Roshon posted...

Forlorn_Ass posted...

Capitalism is the most fair system there is.

Yes its soooooo fair, that most people cannot afford medical care, most millennials will never be able to own a house, and most of the country is piled in debt while the wealthy sit on their thrones.

due to insane taxes, which i'd argue that founding fathers who gave us capitalism in the first place would be against said high taxes and not just high taxes, but high taxes on a level that is rarely seen and a debt that is simply unheard of in the history of the world up to this point.

people confuse modern america with capitalism. modern america isnt really capitalism anymore, its a bastardized version of capitalism really. not saying we need 0 regulation in all areas, but we have gone quite overboard.

kayoticdreamz posted...

Roshon posted...

Forlorn_Ass posted...

Capitalism is the most fair system there is.

Yes its soooooo fair, that most people cannot afford medical care, most millennials will never be able to own a house, and most of the country is piled in debt while the wealthy sit on their thrones.

due to insane taxes, which i'd argue that founding fathers who gave us capitalism in the first place would be against said high taxes and not just high taxes, but high taxes on a level that is rarely seen and a debt that is simply unheard of in the history of the world up to this point.

people confuse modern america with capitalism. modern america isnt really capitalism anymore, its a bastardized version of capitalism really. not saying we need 0 regulation in all areas, but we have gone quite overboard.

American wasn't ever simply capitalism, just as an fyi.
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Questionmarktarius posted...

ElatedVenusaur posted...

What is "real communism"?

Workers owning the means of production.

Which, as it turns out, actually isn't incompatible with Capitalism at all.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Employee_stock_ownership_plan

It's also incompatible with basic human nature
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Thanks to the necessity of an administration, there is bound to be someone who inevitably abuses the first among equals idea and then you just end up with a dictatorship (which is 99% likely to be oppressive under the guise of IM JUST ONE OF YOU GUYS, I NEED THIS MANSION TO BE EQUAL).

Also any society where you cant say Ive earned this will eventually either turn people away or discourage them to a degree of unwillingness.
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Solid Sonic posted...

Thanks to the necessity of an administration, there is bound to be someone who inevitably abuses the first among equals idea and then you just end up with a dictatorship (which is 99% likely to be oppressive under the guise of IM JUST ONE OF YOU GUYS, I NEED THIS MANSION TO BE EQUAL).

Also any society where you cant say Ive earned this will eventually either turn people away or discourage them to a degree of unwillingness.

Exactly. It's been tried, to be sure, but never brought to its goal (per Marx, et al). Power vacuums attract despots, who can commit atrocities in the name of communism, and both foster and exploit the people's ignorance.

This is not to praise communism, but the end result always seems to be incredibly far away from initial vision. We haven't seen a successful communist nation, but then again, we haven't seen a nation ever actually achieve communism - just a totalitarian mockery calling itself that.

The implications of what happens when implementation is attempted are clear - it never meets its goal, and terrible things happen along the way. (The colonization and exploitation tendencies don't make capitalism blameless, either.)

That said, there's beneficial pro-labor policies in capitalist nations that probably wouldn't have come about without some degree of Marxist influence. We live in a hybrid society even in the USA, but it seems that CE, time and again, approaches the subject in black and white, and tries to apply a good-and-evil moral standard to things, and conflates economic theory with freedom-versus-oppression.

We live in a world of gray.
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Jerry_Hellyeah posted...

The real question is why the fuck do people think CAPITALISM works?

Aside from the obvious, "we've been told capitalism is the best since we were children to the point where we instinctually defend it despite being the victims of the guys with the CAPITAL"?

The irony of people bitching about capitalism on a device that exists solely because of capitalism is always cute.
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Coffeebeanz posted...

Questionmarktarius posted...

ElatedVenusaur posted...

What is "real communism"?

Workers owning the means of production.

Which, as it turns out, actually isn't incompatible with Capitalism at all.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Employee_stock_ownership_plan

It's also incompatible with basic human nature

It's like Eugenics in that on paper it sounds good but in practice it's very unfeasible

Probably because no one can decide what "real communism" is
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Howl posted...

Jerry_Hellyeah posted...

The real question is why the fuck do people think CAPITALISM works?

Aside from the obvious, "we've been told capitalism is the best since we were children to the point where we instinctually defend it despite being the victims of the guys with the CAPITAL"?

The irony of people bitching about capitalism on a device that exists solely because of capitalism is always cute.

They question society yet participate in it. I am very intelligent.
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I notice that most of you charlatans have avoided what I had to say in this topic.
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