Current Events > Every person who pushes for "stricter gun control" wants them banned

(+) Yeah! (+)

Guns aren't the problem; people are. You know how gun advocates always say, "Only a good man with a gun can stop a bad man with a gun"? Well, if you know someone is bad, why do you allow him or her to have a gun? A piece of metal or plastic doesn't change a person's morality. Bad people are bad people, and giving them weapons just makes them worse people. The first step in the solution to gun violence is ensuring that proven bad people can't buy guns so easily.
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I never want guns banned because they're one of the few things that protects certain minorities. There's kind of an established history of banning weapons, then shortly afterwards the government or people of a country then rounds up a group and ends up slaughtering them. Easiest example is Hitler, who had guns restricted and made it so Jewish people couldn't even own weapons of basic, manual varieties.
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Dragonblade01 posted...

The things we all should be allowed as citizens should be given only after careful consideration.

smfh...smfh...
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iClockwork posted...

Dragonblade01 posted...

The things we all should be allowed as citizens should be given only after careful consideration.

smfh...smfh...

Do you think rights are anything more than something given by a country to its citizens?

iClockwork posted...

Rika_Furude posted...

so you admit you are anti-america?

Supporting 2nd amendment rights is in line with supporting the political philosophy that America adheres to.

while ignoring the safety of its citizens. not very american
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byron posted...

What do you think about the right to Healthcare?

Anyone has the right to purchase healthcare in the same way anyone has the right to purchase a gun.

Rika_Furude posted...

while ignoring the safety of its citizens. not very american

We have police and security that protect our citizens everyday. We do the opposite of ignoring safety.
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iClockwork posted...

We do the opposite of ignoring safety.

oh ok, you just turn a blind eye to very unsafe things
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Rika_Furude posted...

oh ok, you just turn a blind eye to very unsafe things

Nope we actively debate and agree upon solutions to further our society.
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iClockwork posted...

byron posted...

What do you think about the right to Healthcare?

Anyone has the right to purchase healthcare in the same way anyone has the right to purchase a gun.

Why does it only have to be a right when the word purchase is in the description?

iClockwork posted...

Rika_Furude posted...

oh ok, you just turn a blind eye to very unsafe things

Nope we actively debate and agree upon solutions to further our society.

There hasn't been much of either lately.
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Dragonblade01 posted...

Why does it only have to be a right when the word purchase is in the description?

Not sure what you're even trying to say here.

You have the right to healthcare and you have the right to guns. It's your choice to exercise that right.

The23rdMagus posted...

There hasn't been much of either lately.

Then you haven't been listening.
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Real talk. If they made it mandatory for all law enforcement to enter suspects into NCIC, this shit would be almost non-existent.
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iClockwork posted...

Dragonblade01 posted...

Why does it only have to be a right when the word purchase is in the description?

Not sure what you're even trying to say here.

You have the right to healthcare and you have the right to guns. It's your choice to exercise that right.

Do I have the right to have both of those things provided for me? If not, why aren't those also rights?

Is it not better to have a greater total number of rights?

iClockwork posted...

The23rdMagus posted...

There hasn't been much of either lately.

Then you haven't been listening.

I hear a lot of people digging in their heels. Not a lot of debate. Not a lot of agreement. Not a lot of solutions. This ought to change.
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iClockwork posted...

Rika_Furude posted...

oh ok, you just turn a blind eye to very unsafe things

Nope we actively debate and agree upon solutions to further our society.

further backwards because guns increase crime and murder rates when they are easily accessible. you have actively agreed upon making america measurably and objectively worse
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Dragonblade01 posted...

Do I have the right to have both of those things provided for me? If not, why aren't those also rights?

No. You're not born with entitlements outside of those outlined by the bill of rights, only opportunity.
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iClockwork posted...

Dragonblade01 posted...

Do I have the right to have both of those things provided for me? If not, why aren't those also rights?

No. You're not born with entitlements outside of those outlined by the bill of rights, only opportunity.

So why shouldn't we add them as rights? That way, we'd have more rights.

Or are you saying that not everything should be a right?

Rika_Furude posted...

further backwards because guns increase crime and murder rates when they are easily accessible. you have actively agreed upon making america measurably and objectively worse

False

http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/stats/Crime/Total-crimes-per-1000

Dragonblade01 posted...

Or are you saying that not everything should be a right?

You're not talking about rights your trying to equate entitlements to rights.

"I want a right to a right to healthcare" - liberals
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iClockwork posted...

You're not talking about rights your trying to equate entitlements to rights.

"I want a right to a right to healthcare" - liberals

And you're trying to pretend that there's a meaningful distinction in order to protect your misguided absolutist view of what rights are.

iClockwork posted...

"I want a right to a right to healthcare" - liberals

Why not? Healthcare isn't optional like owning a gun. It is a necessity and inevitability that is literally life or death. And it is treated like a luxury.

I wish we could go back in time and pencil that into the static Constitution. It is pretty much the most important thing in life.
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Remember when the government didn't steal your money because you chose not to have health insurance that year? Me too. We can totally trust them to make gun laws better.

ToonLinkWithGun posted...

Remember when the government didn't steal your money because you chose not to have health insurance that year? Me too. We can totally trust them to make gun laws better.

Yes, I too remember the old shit before the new shit.
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hockeybub89 posted...

ToonLinkWithGun posted...

Remember when the government didn't steal your money because you chose not to have health insurance that year? Me too. We can totally trust them to make gun laws better.

Yes, I too remember the old shit before the new shit.

So then you remember having a right to choose without consequence. You remember better health insurance before democrats ruined it. You remember being an Amerrican with a few more rights than you have now.

Dragonblade01 posted...

And you're trying to pretend that there's a meaningful distinction in order to protect your misguided absolutist view of what rights are.

There is a distinction. You have the right to both already. You don't need the entitlement you're trying to not -so-cleverly disguise as a "right."

hockeybub89 posted...

Why not? Healthcare isn't optional like owning a gun.

Healthcare absolutely is optional. You have the option to partake or not.
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iClockwork posted...

Dragonblade01 posted...

And you're trying to pretend that there's a meaningful distinction in order to protect your misguided absolutist view of what rights are.

There is a distinction. You have the right to both already. You don't need the entitlement you're trying to not -so-cleverly disguise as a "right."

I'm not disguising it as anything. I'm asking you a very simple question.

Why should the one be a right, but not the other?

Dragonblade01 posted...

Why should the one be a right, but not the other?

iClockwork posted...

You have the right to healthcare and you have the right to guns. It's your choice to exercise that right.

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iClockwork posted...

Dragonblade01 posted...

Why should the one be a right, but not the other?

iClockwork posted...

You have the right to healthcare and you have the right to guns. It's your choice to exercise that right.

If you can afford them, right?
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Nah, I don't want them banned, just controls on them tightened. They aren't banned where I live, just restricted. People who want one can still have them, subject to passing the requirements, but kids aren't getting shot on a thrice weekly basis. I think that's a setup we could all work with.

iClockwork posted...

Dragonblade01 posted...

Why should the one be a right, but not the other?

iClockwork posted...

You have the right to healthcare and you have the right to guns. It's your choice to exercise that right.

Why do I only have a right to their availability but not a right to be intrinsically provided them as a member of this society?

The23rdMagus posted...

If you can afford them, right?

You also have the right to a job.

Dragonblade01 posted...

Why do I only have a right to their availability but not a right to be intrinsically provided them as a member of this society?

The event of your birth doesn't entail entitlement of rights only your decision to exercise them.
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iClockwork posted...

The event of your birth doesn't entail entitlement of rights only your decision to exercise them.

And I'm asking you why.

Dragonblade01 posted...

iClockwork posted...

The event of your birth doesn't entail entitlement of rights only your decision to exercise them.

And I'm asking you why.

Because the value of choice is the greatest ability we possess as free people.

I don't want to be entitled to anything no matter how counter intuitive it may seem. The option is available to me and I will exercise my choice to utilize that right or not.
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iClockwork posted...

Dragonblade01 posted...

iClockwork posted...

The event of your birth doesn't entail entitlement of rights only your decision to exercise them.

And I'm asking you why.

Because the value of choice is the greatest ability we possess as free people.

I don't want to be entitled to anything no matter how counter intuitive it may seem. The option is available to me and I will exercise my choice to utilize that right or not.

And that's how you choose what should and should not be a right?

Dragonblade01 posted...

And that's how you choose what should and should not be a right?

It's this simple, you should only have the right of choice anything else is immoral.
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iClockwork posted...

Dragonblade01 posted...

And that's how you choose what should and should not be a right?

It's this simple, you should only have the right of choice anything else is immoral.

And where does this right come from?

Dragonblade01 posted...

And where does this right come from?

Natural law coupled with both consciousness and intelligence.
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iClockwork posted...

Dragonblade01 posted...

And where does this right come from?

Natural law coupled with both consciousness and intelligence.

So it seems the whole absolutist view of rights thing that I mentioned earlier was dead on.

Rika_Furude posted...

Anyone who doesnt support gun control doesnt support their country or community.

Have you guys given Australia back to the indigenous people yet? I think they would have really liked having as many guns as possible about 130 years ago.
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Dragonblade01 posted...

So it seems the whole absolutist view of rights thing that I mentioned earlier was dead on.

Depends on what your definition of absolutist is. You characterizing it as misguided doesn't do you many favors.
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Lorenzo_2003 posted...

Rika_Furude posted...

Anyone who doesnt support gun control doesnt support their country or community.

Have you guys given Australia back to the indigenous people yet? I think they would have really liked having as many guns as possible about 130 years ago.

nice deflection. how about i bring up the indian slaughter americans pulled?
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I don't want them banned in the least bit. High capacity mags, bump fire setups and shit like that should be though.

I just don't see it as a bad thing to need to pass a thorough background check and psych evaluation. You don't even need to require it for every purchase of a firearm. Adopt the Canadian system which is licensing (non-restricted and restricted licenses). The license is good for at least 5 years I believe (I got my non-restricted license like 5 years ago but the card is back in Canada).
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iClockwork posted...

Dragonblade01 posted...

So it seems the whole absolutist view of rights thing that I mentioned earlier was dead on.

Depends on what your definition of absolutist is. You characterizing it as misguided doesn't do you many favors.

Well, considering that rights can only make sense in the context of something provided by a society, I'd definitely call your viewpoint misguided.

Lies.
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Dragonblade01 posted...

considering that rights can only make sense in the context of something provided by a society

This is false and i'd recommend looking into the philosophical topic a little further to gain a better understanding of what constitutes a right. I'm not saying this to be condescending but you accuse me of being an absolutist yet you're putting forth the idea that only society can dictate rights.

That's an foolish line of logic.
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you have to be careful when it comes specifically to guns and what you want regulated. the more you focus on the item the more doors you start to open. a lot of people might not want a gun ban but are actively supporting it with wanting to tighten certain (and i mean certain) regulations. you arnt making the rules, the people who want them gone are and they will play any hand they have to get it done. if any rule they can get through doesnt work even once they will try to go after more and more and more until theres nothing left while still keeping any failed regulations on the board.

this is how it works. history of firearms has shown this is every single fucking country and even in our own. do people actually know how much gun control we've actually gotten in the last 100 years? literally hundreds of laws that piss on the second amendment and its still not enough for these kinds of people.
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Dash_Harber posted...

I don't want them banned. I want weapons to be evaluated on their purpose and use and ones that have no practical application for self-defense or recreation like hunting should be severely restricted.

Worth noting that this is basically what we Canadians do, and it works fairly well.

Name one firearm that is legal for sale in the US that isn't practical for self-defense or hunting.
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