Current Events > Iron Man used an emotional argument in Civil War *spoilers*

(+) Yeah! (+)

That's why he lost.

I wonder why CElibs are all Team Cap, when Cap is clearly Libertarian.
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Wariodorf posted...

darkjedilink posted...

Cap is clearly Libertarian.

lol

Right-libertarian I assume.
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darkjedilink posted...

I wonder why CElibs are all Team Cap, when Cap is clearly Libertarian.

lol

I feel when people get political with CA:CW, they ignore that people can have a different opinion as an observer than they would as an in-universe person.
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Anteaterking posted...

I feel when people get political with CA:CW, they ignore that people can have a different opinion as an observer than they would as an in-universe person.

In and out of the universe, everyone is aware that ultra Nazis had infiltrated and taken control of one of the world's premier intelligence services. Not sure how anyone could justify putting the Avengers under the control of a political organization that is guaranteed to end up controlled by HYDRA.
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Iron Man was the villain

It was the whole reason he's a great tragedy
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It's weird cause I'm pretty sure Cap would be for gun ownership. However, the comic universe doesn't operate like ours. In the comic verse, a superhero would come to save the day. In the comic verse, tons of people choose to be heroes whereas in the real world, most people will use it to get rich. (That or get captured by the government)
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Tony is correct that there should be some check to the Avengers.

Cap is correct the the UN absolutely should not be that check.

The UN controlling the Avengers is even worse than nobody controlling the Avengers.

ThePrinceFish posted...

everyone is aware that ultra Nazis had infiltrated and taken control of one of the world's premier intelligence services

I didn't get the impression that average people on the street understood this, but it's been a while since I've seen the movies.
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Anteaterking posted...

ThePrinceFish posted...

everyone is aware that ultra Nazis had infiltrated and taken control of one of the world's premier intelligence services

I didn't get the impression that average people on the street understood this, but it's been a while since I've seen the movies.

Black Widow leaked SHIELD's files to the internet at the end of The Winter Soldier.
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-they wanted to nuke NYC(though i'm not sure if "they" were part of hydra-shield or not)... either way the point still stands that "they" don't have a good track record
-tony is the only one that needs to be checked since AoU wouldn't have happened without him
-vision picked up thor's hammer and was already on the "side of life"... so according to the laws of worthiness, thor and vision were already there while thor wasn't exactly a misplaced nuclear weapon as ross put it
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Punctus_Pilot posted...

Tony is correct that there should be some check to the Avengers.

Cap is correct the the UN absolutely should not be that check.

The UN controlling the Avengers is even worse than nobody controlling the Avengers.

That wasn't Cap's argument. You are correct in your analysis, but his argument was that nobody should be a check against them.
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JustMyOpinion posted...

Uhhh, the turning point in Cap's decision was going to his slampiece's funeral that he never got to slam and her words to live by were "YOLO. Screw everyone else. You do you." And then since he couldn't slam her he slammed her great grandaughter. (grandniece? I forget what she was)

Seems rather emotional to me.

Cap already had his mind made up. He was going to against it whether Carter died or not. So what if it gave him a little motivation.

Iron Man probably would have sided with Cap had a random woman not cornered him and made Tony go all "We can trust the government now because a kid died while we were saving the planet."

darkjedilink posted...

Punctus_Pilot posted...

Tony is correct that there should be some check to the Avengers.

Cap is correct the the UN absolutely should not be that check.

The UN controlling the Avengers is even worse than nobody controlling the Avengers.

That wasn't Cap's argument. You are correct in your analysis, but his argument was that nobody should be a check against them.

Fair. But his stance was still better than Tony's.

AsucaHayashi posted...

-they wanted to nuke NYC(though i'm not sure if "they" were part of hydra-shield or not)... either way the point still stands that "they" don't have a good track record
-tony is the only one that needs to be checked since AoU wouldn't have happened without him
-vision picked up thor's hammer and was already on the "side of life"... so according to the laws of worthiness, thor and vision were already there while thor wasn't exactly a misplaced nuclear weapon as ross put it

To answer that first point

at least one member of the world security council was part of Hydra
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JustMyOpinion posted...

ToonLinkWithGun posted...

JustMyOpinion posted...

Uhhh, the turning point in Cap's decision was going to his slampiece's funeral that he never got to slam and her words to live by were "YOLO. Screw everyone else. You do you." And then since he couldn't slam her he slammed her great grandaughter. (grandniece? I forget what she was)

Seems rather emotional to me.

Cap already had his mind made up. He was going to against it whether Carter died or not. So what if it gave him a little motivation.

Iron Man probably would have sided with Cap had a random woman not cornered him and made Tony go all "We can trust the government now because a kid died while we were saving the planet."

Proof? When do we as the audience know that he made up his mind before that? Because if he had already made up his mind before that then the whole eulogy served no purpose whatsoever in the movie. Seems to me you're reaching a bit.

Literally the scene right before he finds out she passed away. Cap is trying to convince them why they are wrong. Pretty sure he even has the last word.

Honestly, I didn't like that movie because their "beef" with each other felt very manufactured and forced. It felt like they were fighting each other because the movie needed them to fight each other.
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The Avengers should be forced to disband. Policing other peoples countries isn't ok.
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JustMyOpinion posted...

ToonLinkWithGun posted...

JustMyOpinion posted...

ToonLinkWithGun posted...

JustMyOpinion posted...

Uhhh, the turning point in Cap's decision was going to his slampiece's funeral that he never got to slam and her words to live by were "YOLO. Screw everyone else. You do you." And then since he couldn't slam her he slammed her great grandaughter. (grandniece? I forget what she was)

Seems rather emotional to me.

Cap already had his mind made up. He was going to against it whether Carter died or not. So what if it gave him a little motivation.

Iron Man probably would have sided with Cap had a random woman not cornered him and made Tony go all "We can trust the government now because a kid died while we were saving the planet."

Proof? When do we as the audience know that he made up his mind before that? Because if he had already made up his mind before that then the whole eulogy served no purpose whatsoever in the movie. Seems to me you're reaching a bit.

Literally the scene right before he finds out she passed away. Cap is trying to convince them why they are wrong. Pretty sure he even has the last word.

He's literally on the fence. I edited my post btw.

He wasn't wrong though, and Bucky would be dead had he not followed through with his convictions. Maybe we just read the scene differently.

ThePrinceFish posted...

Not sure how anyone could justify putting the Avengers under the control of a political organization that is guaranteed to end up controlled by HYDRA.

They spent the first part of AoU cutting HYDRA's balls off and feeding them to them.
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ToonLinkWithGun posted...

JustMyOpinion posted...

ToonLinkWithGun posted...

JustMyOpinion posted...

Uhhh, the turning point in Cap's decision was going to his slampiece's funeral that he never got to slam and her words to live by were "YOLO. Screw everyone else. You do you." And then since he couldn't slam her he slammed her great grandaughter. (grandniece? I forget what she was)

Seems rather emotional to me.

Cap already had his mind made up. He was going to against it whether Carter died or not. So what if it gave him a little motivation.

Iron Man probably would have sided with Cap had a random woman not cornered him and made Tony go all "We can trust the government now because a kid died while we were saving the planet."

Proof? When do we as the audience know that he made up his mind before that? Because if he had already made up his mind before that then the whole eulogy served no purpose whatsoever in the movie. Seems to me you're reaching a bit.

Literally the scene right before he finds out she passed away. Cap is trying to convince them why they are wrong. Pretty sure he even has the last word.

you guys need to watch the movie again, after Bucky gets caught Cap is ready to sign as long as adjustments can be maid to the accords. However Tony brings up how Scarlet Witch is under house arrest and he is keeping her safe and Cap argues with him and gives him the pen back.
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JustMyOpinion posted...

Uhhh, the turning point in Cap's decision was going to his slampiece's funeral that he never got to slam and her words to live by were "YOLO. Screw everyone else. You do you." And then since he couldn't slam her he slammed her great grandaughter. (grandniece? I forget what she was)

Seems rather emotional to me.

Peggy is her aunt.
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