Current Events > How do you feel about JRPG battles you're supposed to lose, but can win anyway?

(+) Yeah! (+)

Like, for example, in Lufia 2, the first time you fight Gades, you're supposed to lose, but if you win you get a bad ass sword that is bad ass.

Tales series games have a lot of these types of fights as well.
---

no point really since most of them still act like you lost in the cutscene after the battle
---

I quite like them. Much better than the ones that you can't win, but the game doesn't tell you, or the ones you need to last so long but the game doesn't tell you.

As long as it's clear that you're supposed to lose I'm ok with them. Hate wasting resources just to discover that it's a scripted loss.

Also like games that throw seemingly impossible fights but have a reward or scenario if you manage to actually win.
---

SSJGrimReaper posted...

no point really since most of them still act like you lost in the cutscene after the battle

You typically get some reward for winning. It's only the fights where the enemies are so ridiculously overpowered that the developer did not intend a way to win to be feasible but it's winnable regardless through some exploitation of mechanics or bugs or cheat devices does winning play out exactly the same as losing.

In Tales of Xillia 1 The first Gaius fight plays out exactly the same but you get an extremely rare item as a reward for beating him
---

When they at least acknowledge it, they can be fun. The only time it ever really works consistently is one of those "fight them and if you win you get a title/ item/ when you win or lose your character gets a power up regardless and then the real fight begins" though even that last one requires the lead up in the story actually making sense in pacing and whatnot.

They're great, but only if you get a good reward for actually winning.
---

i like the ones with a prize for winning or an alternate scene.
like in phantasy star 2

nei has to fight the boss neifirst solo and lose. then the rest of the party takes over the fight and nei dies from her injuries. but if you manage to win the fight as nei you get an alternate cutscene to explain how nei still ends up dying
---

What about when you lose easily
Think "oh, ok I'm supposed to lose this fight"
Then you get the game over screen?
---

yusiko posted...

i like the ones with a prize for winning or an alternate scene.
like in phantasy star 2

nei has to fight the boss neifirst solo and lose. then the rest of the party takes over the fight and nei dies from her injuries. but if you manage to win the fight as nei you get an alternate cutscene to explain how nei still ends up dying

The Disgaea series has had a few endings related to winning or losing certain fights.

Beat the level 3000 boss at the end of chapter 1 in D3? Secret ending. Really sad one. Only achievable on a ng+ or higher. Lose a fight against the prior stage and you get a ng+ and a silly ending which perfectly suits the character you lost to. Same with the end of chapter 1 boss in 2.

Turbam posted...

What about when you lose easily
Think "oh, ok I'm supposed to lose this fight"
Then you get the game over screen?

Several enemies in kingdom hearts or similar games. Enemy has huge bursts of aoe attacks that aren't easily dodged or have tracking on them that limits your ability to dodge anything else they throw out. Or they have some secret weak spot you have to exploit but you wouldn't have any idea if it is your first time playing.

Oh. I think the game that did this the best is Chrono Trigger.

You can defeat Lavos AT ANY TIME you encounter him, but you're allowed to lose So long as it's not Day of Lavos 1999
---

asagi_mode_gone posted...

Turbam posted...

What about when you lose easily
Think "oh, ok I'm supposed to lose this fight"
Then you get the game over screen?

Several enemies in kingdom hearts or similar games. Enemy has huge bursts of aoe attacks that aren't easily dodged or have tracking on them that limits your ability to dodge anything else they throw out. Or they have some secret weak spot you have to exploit but you wouldn't have any idea if it is your first time playing.

I can't think of a single KH boss that gave me the vibe I was supposed to lose
---

fenderbender321 posted...

What about battles where you can win by not attacking the enemy.

Are we talking dark knight cecil in ffiv or gogo the famed mimic in ffv? Or are we talking "literally just bait the enemy and make them fall off as they charge" types of battles where not fighting is the best way to get that to happen?

fenderbender321 posted...

What about battles where you can win by not attacking the enemy.

In FF4 Mt. Ordeals, you can actually win by attacking, it's just really really really hard. The Dark Knight also has different defeat speech if you win.

FF5's Gogo though, I don't think there is a way to win by attacking, he's just too strong.
---

BlueBoy675 posted...

asagi_mode_gone posted...

Turbam posted...

What about when you lose easily
Think "oh, ok I'm supposed to lose this fight"
Then you get the game over screen?

Several enemies in kingdom hearts or similar games. Enemy has huge bursts of aoe attacks that aren't easily dodged or have tracking on them that limits your ability to dodge anything else they throw out. Or they have some secret weak spot you have to exploit but you wouldn't have any idea if it is your first time playing.

I can't think of a single KH boss that gave me the vibe I was supposed to lose

---

BlueBoy675 posted...

asagi_mode_gone posted...

Turbam posted...

What about when you lose easily
Think "oh, ok I'm supposed to lose this fight"
Then you get the game over screen?

Several enemies in kingdom hearts or similar games. Enemy has huge bursts of aoe attacks that aren't easily dodged or have tracking on them that limits your ability to dodge anything else they throw out. Or they have some secret weak spot you have to exploit but you wouldn't have any idea if it is your first time playing.

I can't think of a single KH boss that gave me the vibe I was supposed to lose

Sephiroth gave me this vibe that I was supposed to lose and then give up and go do something else lmao
---

My favorite are the ones where you're fighting the boss for a long enough time, and you use all your items on it thinking it's worth it, then you figure out its a scripted boss so you let yourself lose only to find out it wasn't a scripted boss in the first place and you're just garbage so you put the game down for a year while you think about your life.
---

A_Good_Boy posted...

My favorite are the ones where you're fighting the boss for a long enough time, and you use all your items on it thinking it's worth it, then you figure out its a scripted boss so you let yourself lose only to find out it wasn't a scripted boss in the first place and you're just garbage so you put the game down for a year while you think about your life.

Then you go back after a year and realize you forgot how to play and then you give up

lowkey this happened to me with Xenosaga 2
---

Tyranthraxus posted...

BlueBoy675 posted...

asagi_mode_gone posted...

Turbam posted...

What about when you lose easily
Think "oh, ok I'm supposed to lose this fight"
Then you get the game over screen?

Several enemies in kingdom hearts or similar games. Enemy has huge bursts of aoe attacks that aren't easily dodged or have tracking on them that limits your ability to dodge anything else they throw out. Or they have some secret weak spot you have to exploit but you wouldn't have any idea if it is your first time playing.

I can't think of a single KH boss that gave me the vibe I was supposed to lose

Sephiroth gave me this vibe that I was supposed to lose and then give up and go do something else lmao

This and a riku CoM boss but I'm struggling with the name

One thing that really bothers me is when you have to win a very hard fight, but the cutscene treats it like you lost.

much better than just plain scripted fights where the enemy is at your current level and easy as shit but once you get them to 50% a cutscene plays when they one shot you and genuinely losing just gets you a game over

Tyranthraxus posted...

A_Good_Boy posted...

My favorite are the ones where you're fighting the boss for a long enough time, and you use all your items on it thinking it's worth it, then you figure out its a scripted boss so you let yourself lose only to find out it wasn't a scripted boss in the first place and you're just garbage so you put the game down for a year while you think about your life.

Then you go back after a year and realize you forgot how to play and then you give up

lowkey this happened to me with Xenosaga 2

The hardest xenosaga 2 bosses were the last ones minus the final boss who you literally should not lose to.

Now then, margulis during the section where you first used Ziggy, that fight is hell. Even with the proper strategy there's no real easy way to beat him even if you grinded levels. Well, if you saved and grinded for a ton of those S and T point items and got momo a certain spell and got Ziggy to be able to use a finisher as a second ability. But that requires actually grinding for a long time against some of the tougher enemies in that area.

Most bosses have a steal and rare steal item. They also have a drop and rare drop. That boss had one of the best rare drops in the game. The ability extracted from it is only beat by the unique items like the swimsuit.

the hardest boss in xenosaga 2 was orgulla
though i found her really easy when i did my shion solo challenge playthrough of the the series
---

yusiko posted...

the hardest boss in xenosaga 2 was orgulla
though i found her really easy when i did my shion solo challenge playthrough of the the series

Bersker lady is a push over just don't push the damage past 10% increments without making sure everyone is at least at 2/3rds health. With shions aoe heal it's a lot easier. Though momo was truly queen of the second game.

asagi_mode_gone posted...

Bersker lady is a push over just don't push the damage past 10% increments without making sure everyone is at least at 2/3rds health. With shions aoe heal it's a lot easier. Though momo was truly queen of the second game.

shion, ziggy and chaos all got ripped off in episode 2
their attacks all do elemental damage so they are only good against certain enemies

shion is great against machines (probably why orgulla was so easy with her solo)
ziggy is great against human/animals enemies
chaos is great against gnosis (which are barely in episode 2)

but they barely hurt anything else.
and yeah MOMO was great in episode 2 provided you had jin or KOSMOS knock the enemy into the air or onto the ground then MOMO would deal obscene amounts of damage.
---