Current Events > Which European nation has fallen hardest from grace?

(+) Yeah! (+)

Vote goes to Greece. A nation once inhabited by the fore-bearers of Western civilization and what are they known for today? A tourist location?
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Greece
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Germany hands down. produced some of the greatest minds in mankind and now is on the verge of imploding and has literal no-go zones
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Greece tbh
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iClockwork posted...

Germany hands down. produced some of the greatest minds in mankind and now is on the verge of imploding and has literal no-go zones

Sources? Whatever it is, that's not enough reason to call it a fall from grace.

Also Germany is a democratic, world power with an incredibly high HDI and a strong economy. IDK but Germany is fine, probably better off than the U.S.A.
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Hungary. Greece hasn't been shit for centuries.
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Germany
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Fall from greece
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LethalAffinity posted...

Germany

You'd prefer the Third Reich?
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Greece, but Greece has had a lot of problems going back a long time. I blame the Ottomans.
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iClockwork posted...

Germany hands down. produced some of the greatest minds in mankind and now is on the verge of imploding and has literal no-go zones

Don't believe everything Breitbart tells you, it makes you look ignorant.
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a lot of em
I mean you have britain where they had a giant chunk of the world and now they don't
lithuania used to be respectfully large (like britain/france/germany/etc sized) and now it's on the smaller end
hungary is also like a quarter of what it used to be. austria fell from being the dominant germanic power to just some country in the alps, etc
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Macedon
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Sativa_Rose posted...

Greece, but Greece has had a lot of problems going back a long time. I blame the Ottomans.

Yeah, 1453. Never forget.
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Hornezz posted...

iClockwork posted...

Germany hands down. produced some of the greatest minds in mankind and now is on the verge of imploding and has literal no-go zones

Don't believe everything Breitbart tells you, it makes you look ignorant.

Are the claims that some areas are much more dangerous now just fake? There seems to be a lot of conflicting info. Im looking for credible sources, but I dont think any of the mainstream media really wants to cover the situation.
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France has been in a constant nosedive since 1812, but Serbia can't stop sucking at everything it does, either. Tough choice.
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ThyCorndog posted...

a lot of em
I mean you have britain where they had a giant chunk of the world and now they don't
lithuania used to be respectfully large (like britain/france/germany/etc sized) and now it's on the smaller end
hungary is also like a quarter of what it used to be. austria fell from being the dominant germanic power to just some country in the alps, etc

Britain is still a huge cultural force, and still stands as a pretty major power. Plus, Britian's decolonization began not that long ago, 1945. Britain definitely peaked during the 19th century to early 20th century, but they haven't fallen that hard.
Hungary is a good case, but Austria is not really because Austria is still a top tier country to live in in terms of quality of life, livability, civil liberties etc.
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Sativa_Rose posted...

Greece, but Greece has had a lot of problems going back a long time. I blame the Ottomans.

Started even before then. Enrico fucking Dandolo and the rest of his stupid Catholic posse can stick their fancy hats up their asses and "crusade" their way back to Venice with their heads on spikes where they belong

1204 worst year of my life
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Garioshi posted...

France has been in a constant nosedive since 1812, but Serbia can't stop sucking at everything it does, either. Tough choice.

If only Napoleon had just not invaded Russia and held onto his gains... -___-
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UnholyMudcrab posted...

Sativa_Rose posted...

Greece, but Greece has had a lot of problems going back a long time. I blame the Ottomans.

Started even before then. Enrico fucking Dandolo and the rest of his stupid Catholic posse can stick their fancy hats up their asses and "crusade" their way back to Venice with their heads on spikes where they belong

1204 worst year of my life

I'm too noob to know this shit yet, gotta get my history level up
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Serbia.

They really need to stop trying to bully other former Yugoslav Republics and mind their own fucking business. Boo hoo Croatia is a tourist attraction and Kosovo wants to be independent. Just be happy with what you've got.
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Sativa_Rose posted...

UnholyMudcrab posted...

Sativa_Rose posted...

Greece, but Greece has had a lot of problems going back a long time. I blame the Ottomans.

Started even before then. Enrico fucking Dandolo and the rest of his stupid Catholic posse can stick their fancy hats up their asses and "crusade" their way back to Venice with their heads on spikes where they belong

1204 worst year of my life

I'm too noob to know this shit yet, gotta get my history level up

yeah venice sacked constantinople. there's a good chance that if catholic crusaders didn't keep sacking byzantium, the ottomans might have never took it over
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electricbugs2 posted...

Serbia.

They really need to stop trying to bully other former Yugoslav Republics and mind their own fucking business. Boo hoo Croatia is a tourist attraction and Kosovo wants to be independent. Just be happy with what you've got.

lol what are they trying to do to Croatia?
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ThyCorndog posted...

Sativa_Rose posted...

UnholyMudcrab posted...

Sativa_Rose posted...

Greece, but Greece has had a lot of problems going back a long time. I blame the Ottomans.

Started even before then. Enrico fucking Dandolo and the rest of his stupid Catholic posse can stick their fancy hats up their asses and "crusade" their way back to Venice with their heads on spikes where they belong

1204 worst year of my life

I'm too noob to know this shit yet, gotta get my history level up

yeah venice sacked constantinople. there's a good chance that if catholic crusaders didn't keep sacking byzantium, the ottomans might have never took it over

Makes sense, the Europeans needed to provide a more united front against the Ottomans and other eastern powers
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electricbugs2 posted...

Serbia.

They really need to stop trying to bully other former Yugoslav Republics and mind their own fucking business. Boo hoo Croatia is a tourist attraction and Kosovo wants to be independent. Just be happy with what you've got.

ummm what are they doing to croatia, exactly? also kosovo is effectively independent. serbia hasn't really done anything crazy recently because they want to look good to the EU
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Hornezz posted...

iClockwork posted...

Germany hands down. produced some of the greatest minds in mankind and now is on the verge of imploding and has literal no-go zones

Don't believe everything Breitbart tells you, it makes you look ignorant.

Nobody is sourcing Breitbart. Official and readily available government data is a good enough source wouldn't ya say?
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When your nation has lasted for millennia, you are bound to have a few centuries of inactivity. Things will pick up once Zeus gets back.
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America

Should have stayed colonies.
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Sativa_Rose posted...

UnholyMudcrab posted...

Sativa_Rose posted...

Greece, but Greece has had a lot of problems going back a long time. I blame the Ottomans.

Started even before then. Enrico fucking Dandolo and the rest of his stupid Catholic posse can stick their fancy hats up their asses and "crusade" their way back to Venice with their heads on spikes where they belong

1204 worst year of my life

I'm too noob to know this shit yet, gotta get my history level up

Here's the basic rundown:

-Pope calls the Fourth Crusade to retake Jerusalem
-Venice funds the crusade and nearly drives itself to bankruptcy
-Crusaders get themselves involved in the time-honored Byzantine tradition of deposing emperors because the prince made them a (probably false) offer to bail them out financially
-Crusaders siege the city to install the new emperor, but both he and the crusaders' financial backer die
-Crusaders burn down half the city, take its valuables, and destroy a bunch of stuff, then establish the Latin Empire in its place, to feebly crawl around and moan for the sweet release of death for the next sixty years. The Byzantine Empire would never recover its strength.

The Fourth Crusade was a giant shitshow from top to bottom, and definitely one of the low points of medieval history.
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Sativa_Rose posted...

UnholyMudcrab posted...

Sativa_Rose posted...

Greece, but Greece has had a lot of problems going back a long time. I blame the Ottomans.

Started even before then. Enrico fucking Dandolo and the rest of his stupid Catholic posse can stick their fancy hats up their asses and "crusade" their way back to Venice with their heads on spikes where they belong

1204 worst year of my life

I'm too noob to know this shit yet, gotta get my history level up

Here's the basic rundown:

- Pope calls the Fourth Crusade to retake Jerusalem
- Venice funds the crusade and nearly drives itself and the crusaders to bankruptcy because fleets are expensive, and massive fleets are massively expensive
- Crusaders raid some ports along the Adriatic for money, because that's what good Christians do I guess. Perhaps not unsurprisingly, they got excommunicated for this one.
- A Byzantine prince makes a completely unrealistic offer to bail them out financially if they install his father as emperor, so they get themselves involved in the time-honored Byzantine tradition of deposing emperors
- Turns out the Byzantine coffers are pretty much empty. Oops.
- Both the reinstalled emperor and his son, the crusaders' meal ticket, die, so they lay siege to the city because they're gonna get their money one way or another, dammit
- They burn down half the city, take its valuables, and destroy a bunch of stuff, then establish the Latin Empire, which will feebly crawl around and moan for the sweet release of death for the next sixty years. The Byzantine Empire would reform after the fall of the Latin Empire, but it was done for at this point.
The Fourth Crusade was a giant shitshow from top to bottom, and definitely one of the low points of medieval history.
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Turkey. Or the area Turkey is the center of. Eastern Roman Empire and Byzantine empire were the center of the world. Now look at it. Turkey could end up a shit show next 10 years. I kind of want to visit before it totally turns to shit.
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KILBOTz posted...

Turkey. Or the area Turkey is the center of. Eastern Roman Empire and Byzantine empire were the center of the world. Now look at it. Turkey could end up a shit show next 10 years. I kind of want to visit before it totally turns to shit.

I was considering saying Turkey as well so +1 on this.
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Vita_Aeterna posted...

LethalAffinity posted...

Germany

You'd prefer the Third Reich?

Do you know who you're talking to? lmao.
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Ahh yes if there's one subject CE is knowledgeable on it's Europe

/s
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It's kind of amazing that the Roman Empire could of lasted past 1453 if it wasn't for Venice sacking them. (The Byzantine Empire is just a fancy name for the Roman Empire after the city of Rome fell out of their rule)
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