Current Events > "Turn based RPGs suck"

(+) Yeah! (+)

These are bad people. Bad people say this
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"I hate turn based RPGs because NO ONE in real life would take turns like this in a fight."

I hate people who seriously use that logic. And I've seen it before.
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Turn-based combat is mostly archaic and has little place in modern gaming. It can however still have a place when used to serve a greater emphasis on planning and strategy. In most cases though it exists more as a placeholder that says "we couldn't be bothered to come up with a serviceable real-time combat system or just copy one of the successful ones"

In a sense it's like text-based adventures. Those had their place in history back when that was just what people had to put up with due to limitations to convey ideas. But now we can do so much more, so it's really quaint.

Turn-based battles are at least not as bad when not paired with Johnny Random Encounters.

Another problem though with turn-based battles is the tendency towards RNG which detracts from the strategy/thought element. Basically, the more RNG involved in a game, the less skill, planning and thought involved (see: Mario Party), and yet the biggest strength of turn-based battle is to give it a more strategic and thoughtful approach to battles, so these two attributes are at odds with each other. And the random encounters they can be paired with also do a fine job pooping all over exploration when every 2~11 steps you're interrupted in a jarring way and hurled into an alternate dimension where you must fight the same 3 dudes for the 60th time before being farted back out into the dungeon/overworld to have just enough time to remember your positioning before having to oblige the next encounter of those same 3 dudes.
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text based games are great though

Turn based is still logical for strategy games

Second_Chances posted...

text based games are great though

And some people prefer black and white movies/TV to color.
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They suck. They are so incredibly boring. I have no idea how they survived this long. It's like, the most detached form of gameplay you could possibly have in a game.

I think it's interesting in SRPGs. I like XCOM. But I simply cannot play traditional turn based games. I've tried my best to like them, but I couldn't do it. It's so incredibly boring and pointless. The Mario & Luigi RPG games is probably the most fun I've had playing a turn based RPG.
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some people enjoy comitting self-harm, but that's also a completely different story

Tmk posted...

Turn-based combat is mostly archaic and has little place in modern gaming. It can however still have a place when used to serve a greater emphasis on planning and strategy. In most cases though it exists more as a placeholder that says "we couldn't be bothered to come up with a serviceable real-time combat system or just copy one of the successful ones"

Menu based jrpg conbat, yes, but tactical combat with hex or grid even grid-less turn based combat that introduce a fight area are best with turn based.

Jagged alliance, silent storm, temple of elemental evil, fire emblem, legend of heroes trails series, ff tactics, tactics ogre, x-com, etc.

Wouldn't be as good as they are without turn based combat.

Blobber combat tho, aka menu based combat are mostly archaic and unless it introduce a new twist, it is mostly crap in newer games
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Controlling one character while the others are AI sucks. Pausing to throw commands is basically making it a turn based game.

ToS had the option of everyone being able to take a controller and fight....but who the fuck wants to watch someone play single player until a battle happens?

holy shit I didnt know there was this level of toxic hatred for turn based rpgs Lmfao
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Yeah with SRPGs and the like, turn-based is kind of a must to bring out the best in it. I'm not sure how a similar thing could be achieved with real time combat.

The closest they could probably get to real time combat is some freakish chimera of mechanics like Resonance of Fate where I don't even know how to describe its combat system.

But something like the concept of it being turn-based, but then your turns are very active and you perform stuff in real time, perhaps, is the closest it could get to normal real-time combat.
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Tmk posted...

The closest they could probably get to real time combat is some freakish chimera of mechanics like Resonance of Fate where I don't even know how to describe its combat system.

An SRPG in real time would simply be an RTS.
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Now that I'm a grown man with a job and family I just can't deal with all the grinding
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Master Kazuya posted...

An SRPG in real time would simply be an RTS.

But you don't really directly control someone in an RTS, right? At least from what I recall seeing.

I'm talking more about a game where you're actively playing, with an active combat system. Not just where things are constantly happening and you're doing menu stuff.

Basically, turn-based battling is, to borrow the term "beat-em-up" a "menu-em-up" and I'm talking about a strategy RPG where it's not a menu-em-up.
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babyeatermax posted...

Now that I'm a grown man with a job and family I just can't deal with all the grinding

I don't think turn based and grinding inherently have any connection, though I will admit a lot of games with the first tend to also have the second

I like turn based battle systems because they emphasize planning and slow thought over execution and quick reflexes. Not to say all turn based systems are good just because they have that, but I don't think they're without their strong points
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I was just thinking about this. What if you have some sort of motor control problems? Turn based games would be one of the only games you could play.
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I enjoyed golden sun then, I still enjoy it now and I will enjoy it in the future.

I welcome any new additions to the series that are turn based with open arms.
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Tmk posted...

But

Bruh I'm gonna be honest, I have no clue what this post said.

An SRPG in real time would be an RTS because, you have multiple units you manage (most with different attributes) where its your job to get them into range for their attacks/abilities (what happens turn by turn in an SRPG), you have to stay out of range of enemies (but in real time via clicking your units around instead of taking turns to move them to different tiles), you have positional terrain advantages (sky units, ground units, burrowed, etc), you have research and tech that you upgrade in real time via buildings (which happens outside of battles in SRPGS), and you have cooldowns on special abilities (in RTS, it's a timer, in SPRG, it's a turn count).
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Final Fantasy X is has an amazing turn based system as does Digital Devil Saga 1 (haven't played 2).
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*goes back to playing xcom*
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Well nevermind then.
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Persona 5 is the only turn based RPG I've enjoyed this gen
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Divinity Original Sin and OS2.

Nuff

Fucking

Said
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Master Kazuya posted...

They suck. They are so incredibly boring. I have no idea how they survived this long. It's like, the most detached form of gameplay you could possibly have in a game.

I think it's interesting in SRPGs. I like XCOM. But I simply cannot play traditional turn based games. I've tried my best to like them, but I couldn't do it. It's so incredibly boring and pointless. The Mario & Luigi RPG games is probably the most fun I've had playing a turn based RPG.

Play Persona 5
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So, Persona 5.

Are you saying Persona 5 would be a worse game if it had real-time combat done well?

What exactly about turn-based combat benefits Persona 5?

As another example: how many games with real-time combat would be improved by having turn-based combat instead, for a reason besides "they totally fucked up the real-time combat and turn-based is easier to make"?

Would Dark Souls be better turn-based? Nier? A Tales of game?
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It's my favourite kind of battle system. The Vandal Hearts II one was anmoying, though.
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Zurkon posted...

Agreed

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Blue_Inigo posted...

Persona 5

I have no clue why this would be any different than my other experiences. I got bored of Paper Mario TTYD, I got bored of Chrono Trigger, I got bored of Lisa, I got bored of Namco X Capcom (which isn't even fully traditional), I haven't like Pokemon for like 2 decades, so yeah.
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Master Kazuya posted...

I have no clue why this would be any different than my other experiences. I got bored of Paper Mario TTYD, I got bored of Chrono Trigger, I got bored of Lisa, I got bored of Namco X Capcom (which isn't even fully traditional), I haven't like Pokemon for like 2 decades, so yeah.

Basically people like Persona 5 in spite if it being a turn-based JRPG, not BECAUSE it's one. So it's definitely not a compelling argument for the value of turn-based combat.
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Tmk posted...

Master Kazuya posted...

I have no clue why this would be any different than my other experiences. I got bored of Paper Mario TTYD, I got bored of Chrono Trigger, I got bored of Lisa, I got bored of Namco X Capcom (which isn't even fully traditional), I haven't like Pokemon for like 2 decades, so yeah.

Basically people like Persona 5 in spite if it being a turn-based JRPG, not BECAUSE it's one. So it's definitely not a compelling argument for the value of turn-based combat.

Uh speak for yourself.
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Tmk posted...

Basically people like Persona 5 in spite if it being a turn-based JRPG, not BECAUSE it's one. So it's definitely not a compelling argument for the value of turn-based combat.

If you seriously think this, you're not paying attention to a big chunk of the Persona fanbase.

You clearly dislike turn-based combat, and that's fine. But why is it so hard to accept that other people find value in it?

Tmk posted...

Master Kazuya posted...

I have no clue why this would be any different than my other experiences. I got bored of Paper Mario TTYD, I got bored of Chrono Trigger, I got bored of Lisa, I got bored of Namco X Capcom (which isn't even fully traditional), I haven't like Pokemon for like 2 decades, so yeah.

Basically people like Persona 5 in spite if it being a turn-based JRPG, not BECAUSE it's one. So it's definitely not a compelling argument for the value of turn-based combat.

What kind of garbage bullshit is this lol?
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we had real time battle SMT game, it's called Raidou Kuzunoha series.
and as expected, the battle didn't feel as deep as the other games.

TheGrindery posted...

ToS had the option of everyone being able to take a controller and fight....but who the fuck wants to watch someone play single player until a battle happens

pretty sure that feature was available since ToD, the second game in the series. although the PS version of ToP added it later.
it was pretty nice to build combos for exp bonus.
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Zeeak4444 posted...

What kind of garbage bullshit is this lol?

Relevant information regarding what I was responding to.

If someone doesn't like turn-based combat, suggesting Persona 5 to them like that'd change their mind makes no sense. Persona didn't make a name for itself because of its combat system. People not warmed up to turn-based combat who like Persona 5 don't like it because wow the combat system is so great and really changes people's minds about the whole idea of turn-based battles, they like it for all the other things in the game and basically go "well the combat system didn't RUIN it"
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