Current Events > CEs opinion on new Ontario law allowing govt to seize children from parents who

(+) Yeah! (+)

I'm pretty sure telling any kid under 16 years old that he's right/correct about something that significant to the rest of his life (or she/xe/it's) will result in nothing positive.

We know how dumb teenagers are. Do we think children are any better? Especially ones who haven't even grown armpit hair.

I'm 100% sure that this legislation is more of the Canadian way of "don't offend anyone or make anybody sad, ever, even if it's a little kid who wants to dictate his own life at the age of 7".
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Zikten posted...

scenerio: a kid tells their parents they want to be trans. the parent says

"I will support you in any choice you make......after you are 18. you need time to consider this. it's a very big decision and you are much too young to understand it"

then Justin Trudoue and his goons break down the door and take the kid away

How delusional are you that this is what you think is going on.

Or that you think it's tell their parents they want to be trans... Here's the thing. If you are trans then you're trans whether or not you have the surgery and whether or not you tell your parents. This law is to protect children that suffer other abuses as well as being denied their personal identity and bodily autonomy. These kids are left to suffer with dysmorphia when denied basic treatment.

All teens can get is hormone therapy to delay puberty and delay irreversible changes. Should you deny that treatment you are causing additional difficulty whether or not they wish to transition later.

You can stop hormones any time to resume the body's growth and puberty.
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thelovefist posted...

Dear @Zikten,

Please never enter my country.

Thank you.

I already did so suck it. I've been in your country a bunch of times. and last may I drove through it for 8 days and used your highways, your restaurants, and your RV parks. I bet that just pisses you right off

Uncle Choad posted...

I'm pretty sure telling any kid under 16 years old that he's right/correct about something that significant to the rest of his life (or she/xe/it's) will result in nothing positive.

We know how dumb teenagers are. Do we think children are any better? Especially ones who haven't even grown armpit hair.

I'm 100% sure that this legislation is more of the Canadian way of "don't offend anyone or make anybody sad, ever, even if it's a little kid who wants to dictate his own life at the age of 7".

The earlier hormone therapy is implemented the mote likely the subject will pass as male/female. It's incredibly hard to make someone transitioning look like their selected gender once puberty sets in, not to mention the trauma a teen is in once they are hit with body dismorphia fell force.
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Zikten posted...

thelovefist posted...

Dear @Zikten,

Please never enter my country.

Thank you.

I already did so suck it. I've been in your country a bunch of times. and last may I drove through it for 8 days and used your highways, your restaurants, and your RV parks. I bet that just pisses you right off

Depends on the part I suppose. I should have rephrased to ask you to never live here as opposed to enter here.
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Zikten posted...

scenerio: a kid tells their parents they want to be trans. the parent says

"I will support you in any choice you make......after you are 18. you need time to consider this. it's a very big decision and you are much too young to understand it"

then Justin Trudoue and his goons break down the door and take the kid away

You need to go talk to a specialist, holy fuck
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Duncanwii posted...

Uncle Choad posted...

I'm pretty sure telling any kid under 16 years old that he's right/correct about something that significant to the rest of his life (or she/xe/it's) will result in nothing positive.

We know how dumb teenagers are. Do we think children are any better? Especially ones who haven't even grown armpit hair.

I'm 100% sure that this legislation is more of the Canadian way of "don't offend anyone or make anybody sad, ever, even if it's a little kid who wants to dictate his own life at the age of 7".

The earlier hormone therapy is implemented the mote likely the subject will pass as male/female. It's incredibly hard to make someone transitioning look like their selected gender once puberty sets in, not to mention the trauma a teen is in once they are hit with body dismorphia fell force.

People support giving hormone therapy to children? What the fuck.
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Look for California to follow suit
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Zikten posted...

sounds like something the UN should be investigating and if it's true, Canada needs to be dealt sanctions and maybe eventually they would need to be invaded to stop human rights abuses.

What a non-black and white opinion you have here.
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Uncle Choad posted...

Duncanwii posted...

Uncle Choad posted...

I'm pretty sure telling any kid under 16 years old that he's right/correct about something that significant to the rest of his life (or she/xe/it's) will result in nothing positive.

We know how dumb teenagers are. Do we think children are any better? Especially ones who haven't even grown armpit hair.

I'm 100% sure that this legislation is more of the Canadian way of "don't offend anyone or make anybody sad, ever, even if it's a little kid who wants to dictate his own life at the age of 7".

The earlier hormone therapy is implemented the mote likely the subject will pass as male/female. It's incredibly hard to make someone transitioning look like their selected gender once puberty sets in, not to mention the trauma a teen is in once they are hit with body dismorphia fell force.

People support giving hormone therapy to children? What the fuck.

When you stop hormone therapy puberty kicks in right away.

You don't just go to the doctor and ask for hormones. Adults go through rigorous counseling and screening. Children have to go through even more before they'll consider hormone treatment to delay puberty. In the future they evaluate whether or not surgery is desired.

Forcing the child to go through puberty can be downright cruel for some children
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darkjedilink posted...

Ic3Bullet posted...

darkjedilink posted...

silentwing26x posted...

Disturbing if true

It's not. Canada explicitly responded to these claims, saying that such cases only can be taken into account as part of an already-established pattern of abuse.

Thats relieving to hear.

Next time, do some fucking research.

I ain't got time for that
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darkjedilink posted...

Next time, do some fucking research.

Note taken. Ill remember this next time youre fooled by a misleading article that could have been avoided if you ran a critical analysis on every. Single. Thing. You. Ever. Read.

Ic3Bullet posted...

darkjedilink posted...

Next time, do some fucking research.

Note taken. Ill remember this next time youre fooled by a misleading article that could have been avoided if you ran a critical analysis on every. Single. Thing. You. Ever. Read.

"avoid breitbart" is among the first things to take note of when you're trying to stay up to date on current events
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Uncle Choad posted...

Duncanwii posted...

Uncle Choad posted...

I'm pretty sure telling any kid under 16 years old that he's right/correct about something that significant to the rest of his life (or she/xe/it's) will result in nothing positive.

We know how dumb teenagers are. Do we think children are any better? Especially ones who haven't even grown armpit hair.

I'm 100% sure that this legislation is more of the Canadian way of "don't offend anyone or make anybody sad, ever, even if it's a little kid who wants to dictate his own life at the age of 7".

The earlier hormone therapy is implemented the mote likely the subject will pass as male/female. It's incredibly hard to make someone transitioning look like their selected gender once puberty sets in, not to mention the trauma a teen is in once they are hit with body dismorphia fell force.

People support giving hormone therapy to children? What the fuck.

I identify as Mr. Olympia. Give me steroids!

ultimate reaver posted...

Zikten posted...

Alucard188 posted...

Telling their kid that their sexuality is wrong or immoral is very damaging to the kid.

know what else is damaging? letting a 10 year old kid that doesn't know the seriousness of their decision, do gender change surgery before they even hit puberty

That's not what's happening in this legislation

It is a slippery slope that will culminate in kids getting taken away from parents because it's the rebellious thing to do. I agree with it in the sense that a gay/lesbian teen shouldn't face abuse from home and should have a way to deal with it, but I highly disagree in the way that it is proposed.

I don't think any positive trans news has ever been a good thing. Gay/Lesbian peoples have only recently started being accepted and they still face discrimination, as do black people. I think for trans-gender issues, a few people should be selectively chosen and have mental checkups for a few years so we can see the effects on adults before letting teenagers or kids make choices like this. In this way we can have more research available to people who are considering transitioning, and they can see how hard or easy it may be for some people. This in turn will make them think if they are really making the right choice, and if they truly believe they are then they will go through with it anyways.

In the statement we're facing, what is a parent supposed to do when their own child can drum up attention on social media if the government has read into the case and decided no abuse is taking place, yet the person in question claims it's still abuse to them ala microaggressions or something? With anything on social media these days able to drum up support, a child is now in control of how their parents are looked at by the world. The child may be given a better life, but do the parents really deserve to be able to be scrutinized under the eyes of the world simply because they may not agree? People will lose jobs over this, and people will lose companies over this if it truly gets to pervasive measures, which it will. If the article is true and claims to be about teens, it won't be hard for one kid to make some post which gets shared around by other students, then shown to progressive parents eventually schools will get involved etc.

In time this could very well be a human rights issue. Through either a totalitarian approach where anything deemed "wrong" will get kids taken by social services, or where kids will do anything they can to get away from the abuse they may face.

I do have some faith that the government wouldn't propose stricter and stricter laws regarding this, but one can never be to sure.

@darkjedilink

I realize what I was saying is speculation, but "abuse" to anyone can mean very different things, and it seems hard to paint a good picture of what this abuse would be, and how extreme it would have to be for children to be removed. Does a parent simply make comments that they disagree? Is that perhaps one of many cases where a child ends up winning and being taken from their parents because they can't say they identify as a double soul fox owl mammal squirrel seven year old in a twenty nine year old's body, and a parent simply dismisses it everytime it's brought up by simply saying "I don't quite agree with that, and I think you should wait until you're 18 before you decide on things like that" only for the government to intervene and say "You are not allowing your child the necessities they need to grow as a person we they will be taken away."?

Where do the lines begin and end with this law?
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averagejoel posted...

Ic3Bullet posted...

darkjedilink posted...

Next time, do some fucking research.

Note taken. Ill remember this next time youre fooled by a misleading article that could have been avoided if you ran a critical analysis on every. Single. Thing. You. Ever. Read.

"avoid breitbart" is among the first things to take note of when you're trying to stay up to date on current events

Sorry, I didnt know. I solemnly swear I will never read another article before I dedicate my entire life to memorizing which news sources are reliable. Btw, had dark responded politely, I would have thanked him for his advice and moved on. Notice how at first I DID act appreciative of his corrective statement. Then he immediately swept back in acting like a butthurt little soyboy.

Doctor Foxx posted...

Forcing the child to go through puberty can be downright cruel for some children

I mean it isn't really forcing them, it's more letting them right? You're definitely forcing them to not go through puberty, and I think that is probably where a lot of issues regarding this come from. Not taking one side or the other here, just an observation.

Ic3Bullet posted...

Sorry, I didnt know. I solemnly swear I will never read another article before I dedicate my entire life to memorizing which news sources are reliable.

I dunno, the section of Breitbart this article was in is literally titled Big Government. That's usually something that would clue you in to, at the very least, conservative bias strong enough to have such a specific section on the site.
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SGT_Conti posted...

Ic3Bullet posted...

Sorry, I didnt know. I solemnly swear I will never read another article before I dedicate my entire life to memorizing which news sources are reliable.

I dunno, the section of Breitbart this article was in is literally titled Big Government. That's usually something that would key you in to, at the very least, conservative bias strong enough to have such a specific section on the site.

My god, Ive already shown Im not a bigot when I responded to darks original correction to my post by saying I was relieved to hear it. You SJWs are fucking relentless.

Okay, Im goddamn Hitler. Is that what you want me to say? Sorry for being mislead by a goddamn misleading article.

TheFifthPerson posted...

Doctor Foxx posted...

Forcing the child to go through puberty can be downright cruel for some children

I mean it isn't really forcing them, it's more letting them right? You're definitely forcing them to not go through puberty, and I think that is probably where a lot of issues regarding this come from. Not taking one side or the other here, just an observation.

no. Children are the ones requesting the hormone treatment. Letting them would be letting them get their treatment. Forcing them is forcing them to go without. An adult can seek this treatment and be granted it, but unfortunately waiting until adulthood means being forced to go through puberty. And this is for someone that is likely to wish to take hormones and possibly undergo surgery to remove secondary sex characteristics that have matured. It's causing present and future suffering.
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Doctor Foxx posted...

TheFifthPerson posted...

Doctor Foxx posted...

Forcing the child to go through puberty can be downright cruel for some children

I mean it isn't really forcing them, it's more letting them right? You're definitely forcing them to not go through puberty, and I think that is probably where a lot of issues regarding this come from. Not taking one side or the other here, just an observation.

no. Children are the ones requesting the hormone treatment. Letting them would be letting them get their treatment. Forcing them is forcing them to go without. An adult can seek this treatment and be granted it, but unfortunately waiting until adulthood means being forced to go through puberty. And this is for someone that is likely to wish to take hormones and possibly undergo surgery to remove secondary sex characteristics that have matured. It's causing present and future suffering.

How about the fact that children often change their minds about things as they get older?

Ic3Bullet posted...

Doctor Foxx posted...

TheFifthPerson posted...

Doctor Foxx posted...

Forcing the child to go through puberty can be downright cruel for some children

I mean it isn't really forcing them, it's more letting them right? You're definitely forcing them to not go through puberty, and I think that is probably where a lot of issues regarding this come from. Not taking one side or the other here, just an observation.

no. Children are the ones requesting the hormone treatment. Letting them would be letting them get their treatment. Forcing them is forcing them to go without. An adult can seek this treatment and be granted it, but unfortunately waiting until adulthood means being forced to go through puberty. And this is for someone that is likely to wish to take hormones and possibly undergo surgery to remove secondary sex characteristics that have matured. It's causing present and future suffering.

How about the fact that children often change their minds about things as they get older?

Children must undergo repeat psychological and psychiatric evaluations before they will be considered for hormone therapy.

IF they get on hormone therapy and decide that it's the wrong choice, stopping the hormone treatment will reverse the effects and puberty will happen. Life proceeds as it would have without the hormones.

When kids get to the point of hormone therapy, it's not a rash decision. Most continue with it. And this prevents permanent distinct physiological changes that will cause issues with later transitions.

You can't unring a bell, but you can keep a distance from the bell until you're ready to ring it

So if they change their mind? they stop the treatment. ta da.
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Doctor Foxx posted...

Children must undergo repeat psychological and psychiatric evaluations before they will be considered for hormone therapy.

IF they get on hormone therapy and decide that it's the wrong choice, stopping the hormone treatment will reverse the effects and puberty will happen. Life proceeds as it would have without the hormones.

When kids get to the point of hormone therapy, it's not a rash decision. Most conitnue with it. And this prevents permanent distinct physiological changes that will cause issues with later transitions.

You can't unring a bell, but you can keep a distance from the bell until you're ready to ring it

So if they change their mind? they stop the treatment. ta da.

You see? This is a respectful, informative and productive response. Much more effective and persuasive than Next time do your fucking research. @darkjedilink

Doctor Foxx posted...

Ic3Bullet posted...

Doctor Foxx posted...

TheFifthPerson posted...

Doctor Foxx posted...

Forcing the child to go through puberty can be downright cruel for some children

I mean it isn't really forcing them, it's more letting them right? You're definitely forcing them to not go through puberty, and I think that is probably where a lot of issues regarding this come from. Not taking one side or the other here, just an observation.

no. Children are the ones requesting the hormone treatment. Letting them would be letting them get their treatment. Forcing them is forcing them to go without. An adult can seek this treatment and be granted it, but unfortunately waiting until adulthood means being forced to go through puberty. And this is for someone that is likely to wish to take hormones and possibly undergo surgery to remove secondary sex characteristics that have matured. It's causing present and future suffering.

How about the fact that children often change their minds about things as they get older?

Children must undergo repeat psychological and psychiatric evaluations before they will be considered for hormone therapy.

IF they get on hormone therapy and decide that it's the wrong choice, stopping the hormone treatment will reverse the effects and puberty will happen. Life proceeds as it would have without the hormones.

When kids get to the point of hormone therapy, it's not a rash decision. Most continue with it. And this prevents permanent distinct physiological changes that will cause issues with later transitions.

You can't unring a bell, but you can keep a distance from the bell until you're ready to ring it

So if they change their mind? they stop the treatment. ta da.

The problem with this is the fact that regular puberty cycles eliminate 97% of these cases, which is why it's insanely stupid that anyone would consider putting a child through this in the first place.
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darkjedilink posted...

The problem with this is the fact that regular puberty cycles eliminate 97% of these cases, which is why it's insanely stupid that anyone would consider putting a child through this in the first place.

even the most commonly mis-represented study only claims an 84% desistance rate. and that study counts every non-conforming child, not only the ones who, you know, actually want to transition

but honestly, neither of those numbers should pass even the most basic of scrutiny. there are 1 million American trans people. if that only represents 3% of the kids who claimed to be trans, and then 32 million current Americans desisted. That's 1 in 10. good luck actually selling that statistic. even at only 16%, we're looking at 6M Americans who stopped being trans? I think it's a lot more likely that the "researchers" fucked up. It's should't be surprising to anyone that there is a lot of mis- and dis-information out there about trans people. Is it really so hard to think that people might have been counting all GNC kids instead of only trans kids? or worse, intentionally misrepresenting the data to fool people like you into fighting their culture war for them?
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Doctor Foxx posted...

Uncle Choad posted...

Duncanwii posted...

Uncle Choad posted...

I'm pretty sure telling any kid under 16 years old that he's right/correct about something that significant to the rest of his life (or she/xe/it's) will result in nothing positive.

We know how dumb teenagers are. Do we think children are any better? Especially ones who haven't even grown armpit hair.

I'm 100% sure that this legislation is more of the Canadian way of "don't offend anyone or make anybody sad, ever, even if it's a little kid who wants to dictate his own life at the age of 7".

The earlier hormone therapy is implemented the mote likely the subject will pass as male/female. It's incredibly hard to make someone transitioning look like their selected gender once puberty sets in, not to mention the trauma a teen is in once they are hit with body dismorphia fell force.

People support giving hormone therapy to children? What the fuck.

When you stop hormone therapy puberty kicks in right away.

You don't just go to the doctor and ask for hormones. Adults go through rigorous counseling and screening. Children have to go through even more before they'll consider hormone treatment to delay puberty. In the future they evaluate whether or not surgery is desired.

Forcing the child to go through puberty can be downright cruel for some children

What about kids that don't want to grow up, even though Toys R Us is going out of business?

Canadians fighting nature. I never thought I'd see the day.
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Ic3Bullet posted...

SGT_Conti posted...

Ic3Bullet posted...

Sorry, I didnt know. I solemnly swear I will never read another article before I dedicate my entire life to memorizing which news sources are reliable.

I dunno, the section of Breitbart this article was in is literally titled Big Government. That's usually something that would key you in to, at the very least, conservative bias strong enough to have such a specific section on the site.

My god, Ive already shown Im not a bigot when I responded to darks original correction to my post by saying I was relieved to hear it. You SJWs are fucking relentless.

Okay, Im goddamn Hitler. Is that what you want me to say? Sorry for being mislead by a goddamn misleading article.

Dude, when the fuck did I even imply you were a bigot or Hitler?
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shockthemonkey posted...

Lets all take a step back and remember that nothing is medically happening to any of these children without doctor supervision and support. No one is delaying puberty or getting hormone treatments without a prescription.

None of this is about child says [blank] and parents disagree so the child is stolen from them.

Do the parents have a choice whether or not the government can touch their kids?
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shockthemonkey posted...

Uncle Choad posted...

shockthemonkey posted...

Lets all take a step back and remember that nothing is medically happening to any of these children without doctor supervision and support. No one is delaying puberty or getting hormone treatments without a prescription.

None of this is about child says [blank] and parents disagree so the child is stolen from them.

Do the parents have a choice whether or not the government can touch their kids?

Its ok, no one expected you to take a step back and have a real discussion anyway.

I'm serious. You probably think "touch" means physically abuse, but I'm using it broadly to mean 'make medical decisions for', 'relocate to more correct dwelling', 'assign to more agreeable education', etc.
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"I think the government should raise people's kids for them. You made an excellent point that I can't refute, so I quit."

-You
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You actually did quit. Wow.

You support government-imposed ideologies, and you don't know why, other than Justin told me it's nice.
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Kid's a troll now.
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On what? You still haven't given a reason why you think the government should be able to direct how people bring their children up.
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I'm pretty sure you just got upset at the word "touch" and had a little breakdown.

Sorry for using the wrong word.

Regardless, you still think the government is not only responsible for raising children, but for punishing anything not adhering to their laws.

Literally the opposite of this progress that I've been hearing about.
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Alucard188 posted...

I like the part where TC uses Breitbart as a legitmate, totally not one-sided or biased, source for this topic.

I like the part where a mod is posting in a troll topic.

I'm still curious if you're actually a Swede or you just copied some cool sounding nonsense about Odin and revenge and you couldn't manage to get the letters right.
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