Current Events > Why is the American prison system so bad?

(+) Yeah! (+)

Volkswagen_Bros posted...

You're comparing a country like Norway to a country like The United States. Two entirely different societies with a different demographic.

Fantastic reason to support an obviously broken system!
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hockeybub89 posted...

Volkswagen_Bros posted...

Antifar posted...

Volkswagen_Bros posted...

CrimsonRage posted...

Americans favour punishment over rehabilitation.

I see no issue with this.

It doesn't provide us any benefits in terms of reducing crime.

Crime will exist regardless. Are you saying criminals shouldn't be held accountable for their crimes committed? That's not how justice works my friend.

Plus there's no guarantee that rehabilitation will be effective. Who says they won't relapse? Otherwise, a complete waste of resources.

Doesn't America have a very high recidivism rate? We're pretty awesome at making sure people relapse.

Which is what is prison is for.
If they get caught again, they'll have a "record" of it and the judge that "determines" his/her sentence will give that person a harsher sentence.
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Its not a hard question.

Rule1: any time you have a question about the reasoning behind nearly any governmental or human behavior, money is the answer.

Rule2: if you are unsure about your findings, re-consult rule1.
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lilORANG posted...

liberals and their thirst for breaking the law

See i can do it too
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Darkrobotisback posted...

Which is what is prison is for.

This is possibly the hardest I've laughed at a "so stupid it's hilarious" cepost
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Darkrobotisback posted...

hockeybub89 posted...

Volkswagen_Bros posted...

Antifar posted...

Volkswagen_Bros posted...

CrimsonRage posted...

Americans favour punishment over rehabilitation.

I see no issue with this.

It doesn't provide us any benefits in terms of reducing crime.

Crime will exist regardless. Are you saying criminals shouldn't be held accountable for their crimes committed? That's not how justice works my friend.

Plus there's no guarantee that rehabilitation will be effective. Who says they won't relapse? Otherwise, a complete waste of resources.

Doesn't America have a very high recidivism rate? We're pretty awesome at making sure people relapse.

Which is what is prison is for.
If they get caught again, they'll have a "record" of it and the judge that "determines" his/her sentence will give that person a harsher sentence.

Prison's point is to make sure people who leave it wind up back in it? Shouldn't we make better efforts to make sure no one winds up there in the first place, and to assure those that wind up there and eventually get out will not reoffend?

Are we truly doing the best we can? Are we only jailing those that deserve it? Are all our prisoners just hopeless pieces of shit? America is simultaneously somehow one of the best countries on Earth and Earth's best Mos Eisley impression?
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@UnfairRepresent
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Honestly, giving everybody who commits a crime an immediate death sentence is more logical than supporting the American prison system. More evil and horrific, but more logical. The American prison system is kind of like drinking salt when you're dying of thirst. You're not helping the cause unless the cause is giving up and killing yourself.
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Philoktetes posted...

criminals deserve to be punished

i will never understand why Liberals have so much sympathy for criminals

Because countries that focus more on rehabilitation have lower reincarnation rates?

Ic3Bullet posted...

Philoktetes posted...

criminals deserve to be punished

i will never understand why Liberals have so much sympathy for criminals

Because countries that focus more on rehabilitation have lower reincarnation rates?

No it makes total sense. Repeat the cycle keep crime rates up and make more victims. Cause punishment is the obvious and logical priority. Lol
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Do you actually care about what happens to a child raping murderer? Especially one that gloats about their crime, smiles and smugly states that they'd do it again? Punishment should obviously be proportionate to the crime. Like, someone who has stolen a candy bar, shouldn't become a slave in a prison. The former, however, why not? Let them rot and perform slave labor until they keel over.

My 3rd shift relief at my current job used to be a prison guard. He told me about a time that he was transporting a prisoner to therapy, and when the prisoner was asked the question "What is your biggest regret?" the prisoner responded with "I didn't get to finish cutting her head off before the cops busted into the barn.". The prisoner had kidnapped a 12 year old girl, raped her, killed her, and began dismembering her. He beamed with pride over his offense.

While he was transporting this specific prisoner back to his cell, the prisoner kept going into detail about the murder he had committed. Explaining what it felt like. My relief kept telling him to shut up, that he didn't want to hear about it. The prisoner kept on running his mouth, and finally said something like "What you gonna do about it, huh?" and was getting in the guards face. The guard (my relief) said "nothing, unless you make me". They walked a little further, then the prisoner sucker punched the guard. The guard turned around and hit him with his nightstick, breaking the prisoners arm. The prisoner curled up in pain, crying like a baby.

Of course, there was a court hearing over this, and the prisoner tried to say everything he could to make it appear that he was the victim, the son of a bitch. Even though there was video evidence showing EXACTLY what went down. Everyone, including police, told the guard that he should of just killed the scumbag. That no one would have blamed him.

I feel that someone like this prisoner doesn't deserve rehabilitation. Death is even too kind for them.
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Dyinglegacy posted...

Do you actually care about what happens to a child raping murderer? Especially one that gloats about their crime, smiles and smugly states that they'd do it again? Punishment should obviously be proportionate to the crime. Like, someone who has stolen a candy bar, shouldn't become a slave in a prison. The former, however, why not? Let them rot and perform slave labor until they keel over.

My 3rd shift relief at my current job used to be a prison guard. He told me about a time that he was transporting a prisoner to therapy, and when the prisoner was asked the question "What is your biggest regret?" the prisoner responded with "I didn't get to finish cutting her head off before the cops busted into the barn.". The prisoner had kidnapped a 12 year old girl, raped her, killed her, and began dismembering her. He beamed with pride over his offense.

While he was transporting this specific prisoner back to his cell, the prisoner kept going into detail about the murder he had committed. Explaining what it felt like. My relief kept telling him to shut up, that he didn't want to hear about it. The prisoner kept on running his mouth, and finally said something like "What you gonna do about it, huh?" and was getting in the guards face. The guard (my relief) said "nothing, unless you make me". They walked a little further, then the prisoner sucker punched the guard. The guard turned around and hit him with his nightstick, breaking the prisoners arm. The prisoner curled up in pain, crying like a baby.

Of course, there was a court hearing over this, and the prisoner tried to say everything he could to make it appear that he was the victim, the son of a bitch. Even though there was video evidence showing EXACTLY what went down. Everyone, including police, told the guard that he should of just killed the scumbag. That no one would have blamed him.

I feel that someone like this prisoner doesn't deserve rehabilitation. Death is even too kind for them.

Missing the point. Passionate but still.
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Antifar posted...

r4X0r posted...

Recidivism. Black people re-offend at higher rates, thus they get harsher sentences.

Wrong
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/17/opinion/sunday/unequal-sentences-for-blacks-and-whites.html

It exposes the fact that African-American defendants get more time behind bars sometimes twice the prison terms of whites with identical criminal histories when they commit the same crimes under identical circumstances. It also shows how bias on the part of individual judges and prosecutors drives sentencing inequity.

https://www.vox.com/identities/2017/11/17/16668770/us-sentencing-commission-race-booker

If youre convicted of a federal offense, on average you will serve more time for the exact same crime if youre black than if youre white.

Thats the conclusion of a new report by the US Sentencing Commission, which found that black men got 19.1 percent longer sentences for the same federal crimes as white men between fiscal years 2012 and 2016. This was after accounting for several variables, including criminal history, whether someone pleaded guilty, age, education, and citizenship. A separate analysis that controlled for a history of violence but only for fiscal year 2016, due to a lack of data for other years produced similar results.

fucking owned!
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CanuckCowboy posted...

Missing the point. Passionate but still.

Not missing the point... I was just addressing an extreme, that HOPEFULLY people would agree with. That in the instance of an unrepentant offender, to hell with morals as to what happens to them.
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Under budget. Prison isn't meant for reform.
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hockeybub89 posted...

Darkrobotisback posted...

hockeybub89 posted...

Volkswagen_Bros posted...

Antifar posted...

Volkswagen_Bros posted...

CrimsonRage posted...

Americans favour punishment over rehabilitation.

I see no issue with this.

It doesn't provide us any benefits in terms of reducing crime.

Crime will exist regardless. Are you saying criminals shouldn't be held accountable for their crimes committed? That's not how justice works my friend.

Plus there's no guarantee that rehabilitation will be effective. Who says they won't relapse? Otherwise, a complete waste of resources.

Doesn't America have a very high recidivism rate? We're pretty awesome at making sure people relapse.

Which is what is prison is for.
If they get caught again, they'll have a "record" of it and the judge that "determines" his/her sentence will give that person a harsher sentence.

Prison's point is to make sure people who leave it wind up back in it? Shouldn't we make better efforts to make sure no one winds up there in the first place, and to assure those that wind up there and eventually get out will not reoffend?

Are we truly doing the best we can? Are we only jailing those that deserve it? Are all our prisoners just hopeless pieces of shit? America is simultaneously somehow one of the best countries on Earth and Earth's best Mos Eisley impression?

You see the thing about prison in America...
Only people that commit some of the "most serious" crimes will end up in prison simply because the people that wind up in prison have the "tendency" to ruin other people's lives (murder, arson, bankruptcy, fraud, racketeering).
^there be no point into trying to "rehabilitate" these kinds of people, because they're fully capable of "manipulating" the system/other people.
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Dyinglegacy posted...

CanuckCowboy posted...

Missing the point. Passionate but still.

Not missing the point... I was just addressing an extreme, that HOPEFULLY people would agree with. That in the instance of an unrepentant offender, to hell with morals as to what happens to them.

You are though.

"thus awful person deserves to pay surely you have to agree if they are this awful" isn't really relevant.
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And for the record, I believe in reformation. In the context of people that actually want to be reformed. That are truly remorseful of their crime... Even IN THIS CASE, though. I don't think I could over look certain extreme crimes, such as the example in my above post. Sorry or not, you can't be allowed back into society.
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Darkrobotisback posted...

You see the thing about prison in America...
Only people that commit some of the "most serious" crimes will end up in prison simply because the people that wind up in prison have the "tendency" to ruin other people's lives (murder, arson, bankruptcy, fraud, racketeering).
^there be no point into trying to "rehabilitate" these kinds of people, because they're fully capable of "manipulating" the system/other people.

Fuck statistics! And lol at the first paragraph. Imagine believing any of that. Are you a good troll? Respect if that's the case.
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Dyinglegacy posted...

Do you actually care about what happens to a child raping murderer? Especially one that gloats about their crime, smiles and smugly states that they'd do it again? Punishment should obviously be proportionate to the crime. Like, someone who has stolen a candy bar, shouldn't become a slave in a prison. The former, however, why not? Let them rot and perform slave labor until they keel over.

My 3rd shift relief at my current job used to be a prison guard. He told me about a time that he was transporting a prisoner to therapy, and when the prisoner was asked the question "What is your biggest regret?" the prisoner responded with "I didn't get to finish cutting her head off before the cops busted into the barn.". The prisoner had kidnapped a 12 year old girl, raped her, killed her, and began dismembering her. He beamed with pride over his offense.

While he was transporting this specific prisoner back to his cell, the prisoner kept going into detail about the murder he had committed. Explaining what it felt like. My relief kept telling him to shut up, that he didn't want to hear about it. The prisoner kept on running his mouth, and finally said something like "What you gonna do about it, huh?" and was getting in the guards face. The guard (my relief) said "nothing, unless you make me". They walked a little further, then the prisoner sucker punched the guard. The guard turned around and hit him with his nightstick, breaking the prisoners arm. The prisoner curled up in pain, crying like a baby.

Of course, there was a court hearing over this, and the prisoner tried to say everything he could to make it appear that he was the victim, the son of a bitch. Even though there was video evidence showing EXACTLY what went down. Everyone, including police, told the guard that he should of just killed the scumbag. That no one would have blamed him.

I feel that someone like this prisoner doesn't deserve rehabilitation. Death is even too kind for them.

Those people aren't the ones being talked about since those people aren't getting released anyway so no recidivism there.
I do support execution in this case.
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Dyinglegacy posted...

And for the record, I believe in reformation. In the context of people that actually want to be reformed. That are truly remorseful of their crime... Even IN THIS CASE, though. I don't think I could over look certain extreme crimes, such as the example in my above post. Sorry or not, you can't be allowed back into society.

Sure some people are beyond redemption.

But how does that change the bigger picture?
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CanuckCowboy posted...

Dyinglegacy posted...

CanuckCowboy posted...

Missing the point. Passionate but still.

Not missing the point... I was just addressing an extreme, that HOPEFULLY people would agree with. That in the instance of an unrepentant offender, to hell with morals as to what happens to them.

You are though.

"thus awful person deserves to pay surely you have to agree if they are this awful" isn't really relevant.

SIGH

I get what the topic is meaning. That our justice system is messed up. I just wanted to tell a story. Is that OKAY with you?
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CanuckCowboy posted...

Darkrobotisback posted...

You see the thing about prison in America...
Only people that commit some of the "most serious" crimes will end up in prison simply because the people that wind up in prison have the "tendency" to ruin other people's lives (murder, arson, bankruptcy, fraud, racketeering).
^there be no point into trying to "rehabilitate" these kinds of people, because they're fully capable of "manipulating" the system/other people.

Fuck statistics! And lol at the first paragraph. Imagine believing any of that. Are you a good troll? Respect if that's the case.

Have you been to prison?
Have you seen what kinda people end up in prison? You know the kind of people that "usually" drop out of high school, have some kinda mental illness, etc?
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Dyinglegacy posted...

CanuckCowboy posted...

Dyinglegacy posted...

CanuckCowboy posted...

Missing the point. Passionate but still.

Not missing the point... I was just addressing an extreme, that HOPEFULLY people would agree with. That in the instance of an unrepentant offender, to hell with morals as to what happens to them.

You are though.

"thus awful person deserves to pay surely you have to agree if they are this awful" isn't really relevant.

SIGH

I get what the topic is meaning. That our justice system is messed up. I just wanted to tell a story. Is that OKAY with you?

That's fine. But I assumed it was intended as a counterpoint. That's all.
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Darkrobotisback posted...

have some kinda mental illness

Like me?

And no I haven't been to prison.

And lol man. Just... Lol.
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CanuckCowboy posted...

Darkrobotisback posted...

have some kinda mental illness

Like me?

And no I haven't been to prison.

And lol man. Just... Lol.

ok, but did your mental illness in some way or some form for result in the death/injury of another human being?
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Darkrobotisback posted...

CanuckCowboy posted...

Darkrobotisback posted...

have some kinda mental illness

Like me?

And no I haven't been to prison.

And lol man. Just... Lol.

ok, but did your mental illness in some way or some form for result in the death/injury of another human being?

That's not the issue with your post.
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CanuckCowboy posted...

Darkrobotisback posted...

CanuckCowboy posted...

Darkrobotisback posted...

have some kinda mental illness

Like me?

And no I haven't been to prison.

And lol man. Just... Lol.

ok, but did your mental illness in some way or some form for result in the death/injury of another human being?

That's not the issue with your post.

and that didn't answer my question.
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I think the problem is they're too soft. They just breed gang activity. Bring back chain gangs, force the races to mix, and make them work 16 hours a day 6 days a week. If someone doesnt want to do the work? They can do solitary instead. IMO, prisons shouldnt cost taxpayers anything, they should be self sustaining. And when you force them to work their fucking asses off for their entire sentence, you know what you end up with when they're done? A hard worker. And someone who sure as hell doesnt want to go back to prison.

Right now, prisons put blacks together, latinos together, aryans together and give them loads of free time, so now shit they're going to breed gang affiliations and repeat offenders.
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Darkrobotisback posted...

CanuckCowboy posted...

Darkrobotisback posted...

CanuckCowboy posted...

Darkrobotisback posted...

have some kinda mental illness

Like me?

And no I haven't been to prison.

And lol man. Just... Lol.

ok, but did your mental illness in some way or some form for result in the death/injury of another human being?

That's not the issue with your post.

and that didn't answer my question.

Wow
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CanuckCowboy posted...

Darkrobotisback posted...

CanuckCowboy posted...

Darkrobotisback posted...

CanuckCowboy posted...

Darkrobotisback posted...

have some kinda mental illness

Like me?

And no I haven't been to prison.

And lol man. Just... Lol.

ok, but did your mental illness in some way or some form for result in the death/injury of another human being?

That's not the issue with your post.

and that didn't answer my question.

Wow

Indeed, when you meet someone that landed themselves 50 years to life and they suffered some kinda personality disorder you would understand why the US tries so hard to filter people's background checks.
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Tmaster148 posted...

Prisoners are used for essentially slave labor and the more prisoners you have the more money you make. System is designed to lock as many people as possible up and keep them locked up for as long as possible.

Yah. Starbucks actually outsource production of their holiday gift cards to prison labor. Victoria Secrets uses prison labor to stitch their lingerie.

https://groundswell.org/prison-industrial-complex/
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Protip
..dont break the law

Problem solved
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because its a business and America thrives on trying to get people to become criminals/repeat criminals
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metralo posted...

because its a business and America thrives on trying to get people to become criminals/repeat criminals

Nope people do it themselves.

Always someones else's fault tho
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It let's conservatives pretend they won the civil war.
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nicklebro posted...

It let's conservatives pretend they won the civil war.

You could argue that they did win the Civil War. They were able to successfully roll back every reform that Lincoln's Party put into place, then rewrite history to portray themselves as a noble society forced into war by Yankee aggression. The only thing they couldn't do was bring back slavery, but by that time they had found a substitute preferable to them (sharecropping).
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Bill Clinton is a big reason. Read about it in the Michael Moore book "Stupid White Men", and that's interesting because Moore is a big lefty but had big criticisms of the Dems in that book.
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BB mofo posted...

nicklebro posted...

It let's conservatives pretend they won the civil war.

You could argue that they did win the Civil War. They were able to successfully roll back every reform that Lincoln's Party put into place, then rewrite history to portray themselves as a noble society forced into war by Yankee aggression. The only thing they couldn't do was bring back slavery, but by that time they had found a substitute preferable to them (sharecropping).

Plus they could still lock up minorities as often as they want in prisons where they are allowed to treat them like animals again.
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nicklebro posted...

It let's conservatives pretend they won the civil war.

Maybe popularizing this statement is what it'll take to generate a little change.

r4X0r posted...

A_Good_Boy posted...

Philoktetes posted...

in norways criminals get playstations in prison

If a Playstation is the price to pay for lower recidivism rates then why don't we do that?

Because a county is not a buffet lunch. It's a cohesive system. You can't just take the pieces you like from other places, plop them on your plate and expect it to work.

A food metaphor....? Mike Huckabee, is that you!?
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TheGrindery posted...

nicklebro posted...

It let's conservatives pretend they won the civil war.

Maybe popularizing this statement is what it'll take to generate a little change.

All you bud.
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nicklebro posted...

Plus they could still lock up minorities as often as they want in prisons where they are allowed to treat them like animals again.

I mean using prison labor for private business is nothing new. They've been doing it illegally in rural counties since the late 19th century. There was a Batman TAS episode based on this. The one where Bruce Wayne lost his memory and ended up abducted into a chain gang working for a private mining company that had a deal with the crooked sheriff.

It's just that it's all above board and legal now ever since the Supreme Court ruled in the mid 2000s that imminent domain could be used for private enterprise. The argument was that the business would bring jobs to the small town community, so the storage outlet met the requirement of being for the public good. This has eventually extended itself to corporations and prisons. Pressing license plates and picking up roadside trash were for the public good, so making Starbucks gift cards are also for the public good since it's helping the job creators and the economy.
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DoomSwell posted...

Its not rehab, it's a largely private (non-government) for-profit industry.
Repeat "customers" are their business model.

This.

Some of these institutions even threatened to sue states that did not arrest enough people. It's quite disgusting, really.
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Why indeed

Why indeed

murica