Poll of the Day > Is the American Dream real?

(+) Yeah! (+)

darkknight109 posted...

Troll_Police_ posted...

I was planning on coming back here and shitting all over whatever reply DK managed to spew, but yall saved me the trouble.

All I did was post the truth.

If that upsets you, then you're getting mad at facts. Not much I can do about that.

The 'truth' about how you don't live in america and yet somehow thought your explainabrag was relevant to a discussion of the American dream?

It's not upsetting, it's pathetic.
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American dream is fucking stupid.
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Troll_Police_ posted...

darkknight109 posted...

Troll_Police_ posted...

I was planning on coming back here and shitting all over whatever reply DK managed to spew, but yall saved me the trouble.

All I did was post the truth.

If that upsets you, then you're getting mad at facts. Not much I can do about that.

The 'truth' about how you don't live in america and yet somehow thought your explainabrag was relevant to a discussion of the American dream?

It's not upsetting, it's pathetic.

Again, all I said was the truth. If you feel that constitutes bragging, perhaps some introspection is in order, Mr "I pulled myself up from the gutter using nothing but my own gumption".

My own country has significantly better income mobility than the US, that much is true, so this "American Dream" is far more alive here than it is in your country. That being said, even here hard work isn't nearly as much of a factor in success as aptitude, connections, and wealth. In the US, that trend is amplified even moreso.
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darkknight109 posted...

Troll_Police_ posted...

darkknight109 posted...

Troll_Police_ posted...

I was planning on coming back here and shitting all over whatever reply DK managed to spew, but yall saved me the trouble.

All I did was post the truth.

If that upsets you, then you're getting mad at facts. Not much I can do about that.

The 'truth' about how you don't live in america and yet somehow thought your explainabrag was relevant to a discussion of the American dream?

It's not upsetting, it's pathetic.

Again, all I said was the truth. If you feel that constitutes bragging, perhaps some introspection is in order, Mr "I pulled myself up from the gutter using nothing but my own gumption".

My own country has significantly better income mobility than the US, that much is true, so this "American Dream" is far more alive here than it is in your country. That being said, even here hard work isn't nearly as much of a factor in success as aptitude, connections, and wealth. In the US, that trend is amplified even moreso.

See, the thing is I never pretended NOT to be full of myself. I busted my ass to get where I am, which is why I get to feel pride. I'm not surprised someone who had it handed to them would think the way you do. Hell, if I fuck up that badly with my daughter she could grow up to be just like you (in which case I will have failed as a parent.)

But I tell you what: since you're gonna say you didn't earn what you have, why don't you give it to the less fortunate? Or is that bleeding heart of yours just for show?
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The 'American Dream's (barf) is possible, but never has been under current/past circumstances and leadership.
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Troll_Police_ posted...

See, the thing is I never pretended NOT to be full of myself. I busted my ass to get where I am, which is why I get to feel pride. I'm not surprised someone who had it handed to them would think the way you do. Hell, if I fuck up that badly with my daughter she could grow up to be just like you (in which case I will have failed as a parent.)

See, here's the funny part - I'm proud of what I accomplished too. I'm quite happy with my life, and I'd say that's the point of it all. I just recognize that life is not as simple as you're making it out to be where hard work automatically equals success. Success can come with very little work and, on the flip side, you can work your ass straight into the ground and have absolutely nothing to show for it when all is said and done. This bullshit about how all you need to succeed is a little spit-shine and elbow grease is just that: pure, undiluted bullshit. You need only look at the people who work three jobs just to tread water and stay where they are to understand that.

Troll_Police_ posted...

But I tell you what: since you're gonna say you didn't earn what you have, why don't you give it to the less fortunate? Or is that bleeding heart of yours just for show?

What makes you assume I don't?

I mean, given what I've posted so far wouldn't you think that I'd be open to giving to charity and happy to do so? I guess I could start talking about that too, but then I'm guessing I'd trigger you and that other guy about me "bragging" again.
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darkknight109 posted...

Troll_Police_ posted...

See, the thing is I never pretended NOT to be full of myself. I busted my ass to get where I am, which is why I get to feel pride. I'm not surprised someone who had it handed to them would think the way you do. Hell, if I fuck up that badly with my daughter she could grow up to be just like you (in which case I will have failed as a parent.)

See, here's the funny part - I'm proud of what I accomplished too. I'm quite happy with my life, and I'd say that's the point of it all. I just recognize that life is not as simple as you're making it out to be where hard work automatically equals success. Success can come with very little work and, on the flip side, you can work your ass straight into the ground and have absolutely nothing to show for it when all is said and done. This bullshit about how all you need to succeed is a little spit-shine and elbow grease is just that: pure, undiluted bullshit. You need only look at the people who work three jobs just to tread water and stay where they are to understand that.

Troll_Police_ posted...

But I tell you what: since you're gonna say you didn't earn what you have, why don't you give it to the less fortunate? Or is that bleeding heart of yours just for show?

What makes you assume I don't?

I mean, given what I've posted so far wouldn't you think that I'd be open to giving to charity and happy to do so? I guess I could start talking about that too, but then I'm guessing I'd trigger you and that other guy about me "bragging" again.

K, but you still live in a nice house on the coast. How is that fair? Aren't you a hypocrite if you live better than anyone else? Oh those poor people. Doesn't seem like you let it bug you too much though.

And you don't SEEM proud. You seem to think you got what you have without your own merit. That's not pride.

But you are talking out your ass either way. Those people 'working 3 jobs to stay afloat' fucked up. They didn't put the work in early, so now they don't get the benefit. I know it because I did it. Some people are born with the advantages their parents give them, some people fight to be the parents who give their kids those advantages, and some people fuck up their lives and look for pity and handouts.

The fact of the matter is it takes a lot to make it to the top. Some people have it, some people don't, which is why wealthy families don't stay wealthy for more than 2 generations in most cases.

The dream is alive, you just have to work for it. Harder now or easier now doesn't matter, and crying about it will get you nowhere.
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Troll_Police_ posted...

K, but you still live in a nice house on the coast. How is that fair?

It isn't. That's my point.

Troll_Police_ posted...

Aren't you a hypocrite if you live better than anyone else? Oh those poor people. Doesn't seem like you let it bug you too much though.

Don't hate the player, hate the game. I simply live by the rules life has set out. I identified what sort of a life I wanted and did what was required for me to get there.

I like to think I'd have worked harder for what I want if that was what was needed; but it wasn't, so I didn't.

If the system isn't fair, I'm not going to handicap myself to try and compensate, because then someone else with less scruples will just take my place; instead, I'm going to try to work to make the system more fair so that it stops being a pertinent issue.

Troll_Police_ posted...

And you don't SEEM proud. You seem to think you got what you have without your own merit. That's not pride.

I mean, it's not like I put in *nothing* to get where I am; I simply recognize that the work I put in was not the dominant factor that led to me living the life I want to live. I can be proud of what I put in while still noting that good fortune had a very significant impact on me getting where I am.

Troll_Police_ posted...

But you are talking out your ass either way. Those people 'working 3 jobs to stay afloat' fucked up. They didn't put the work in early, so now they don't get the benefit. I know it because I did it.

Again, this doesn't gel with reality.

I never put in the hard work early, university years aside, yet here I am sitting pretty. And I know people who have put in way less work than me and are living a way nicer life because they had the foresight to be born to millionaires. At the same time, I know people who have put in far more work than me - including some who did so from a very early age - yet aren't anywhere near as successful as I am.

Simply put, the amount of work someone puts in is not a reliable indicator of their success. There are plenty of examples of people who have worked very hard and reaped the rewards (see Zeus's Oprah example from the last page), but there are just as many of people who did sweet fuck all but are successful due to wealth or connection or sheer dumb luck.

And it's really not all that hard to see situations where those people you so casually dismiss as having "fucked up" were, in fact, fucked over through no fault of their own. A kid born to poor parents hasn't fucked up; if he has to go to a shitty school with sub-par teachers and few resources, that's not his fault; if he can't work as a teenager because his parents need him to babysit his younger siblings while they go work for enough money to put food on the table, he still hasn't fucked up; yet this exact path will put him in young adulthood with no money to pay for post-secondary education and no reliable path to a decent-paying job. Maybe if he's lucky he did well enough in school to earn enough scholarships to pay his way, but again, that has a lot less to do with hard work and a lot more to do with aptitude; if the kid is not academically inclined, the odds he's going to do well enough to get enough scholarships to pay his bills are slim-to-none.
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Troll_Police_ posted...

I know it because I did it.

There's that Survivorship Bias again.

Hey, you know the real way to be successful? Winning the lottery. I know a guy who bought a ticket once and won and he is now set for life! Those poor stupid schmucks working to try to get ahead really should just buy more lotto tickets - after all, it worked for that guy I know.

Troll_Police_ posted...

The fact of the matter is it takes a lot to make it to the top. Some people have it, some people don't, which is why wealthy families don't stay wealthy for more than 2 generations in most cases.

I'd like to see a source on that, because various studies have shown that wealth of the parent is an excellent indicator of the income of the child. If what you're saying is true, income mobility would be significantly higher in the US, because you would see a lot of people from rich families sinking while the hard-working poor rise up to the top; instead, you have the opposite - the rich stay rich and the poor stay poor and the US is one of the worst developed nations in the world for that trend (If you want to live the American dream, move to Denmark - they have the best stats for income mobility).

http://eprints.lse.ac.uk/68507/13/Karagiannaki_Effect%20of%20parental%20wealth.pdf
https://www.brookings.edu/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/02_economic_mobility_sawhill_ch3.pdf
https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2015/07/rich-people-raise-kids-family-wealth/399809/
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@darkknight109


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