Current Events > Is Christianity really in decline?

(+) Yeah! (+)

Research suggest that it depends on what sort of Christianity you are talking about. The liberal "make it up as you go" brand is certainly facing massive declines across the board. Conservative churches, however, seem to be strong and growing.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2017/01/04/liberal-churches-are-dying-but-conservative-churches-are-thriving/?utm_term=.74693a932c85
---

anecdotal, but among the people I knew in college it started out that they began to reject the stuff they learned at home but were uncomfortable with the atheist label so they were mostly christianity-lite. then slowly as they got more comfortable with rejecting what they had been taught they just embraced being an atheist
---

The number of atheists are rising in general which is great.
---

assassinCrash posted...

The number of atheists are rising in general which is great.

That's probably not very accurate. The number of irreligious people is growing, but atheists constitute a tiny percentage of the population.
---

Its on the rise in South East Asia and Africa but on the decline in the developed world sadly
---

I'm a Christian and I can see a number of reasons why Christianity would be in decline.

- the Bible doesn't exactly coincide with scientific understanding
- there's an ongoing association between Christianity and homophobia
- hostility toward Christianity has become socially acceptable in mainstream media over the past decade or so

yes and good riddance. american christianity isn't a religion, it's a political machine.

^

The same generalization could be made about atheism and the American left. A good portion of the animosity toward Christianity has political underdones.

Skye Reynolds posted...

^

The same generalization could be made about atheism and the American left. A good portion of the animosity toward Christianity has political underdones.

Yeah because American christianity is a political machine. Obviously some criticism of christianity will be a criticism of the political ideology clinging to its dirty taint
---

kislev posted...

Its on the rise in South East Asia and Africa but on the decline in the developed world sadly

Eh, we can do without religion in general at this point. It's not like you HAVE to be religious to have basic morals.
---

We can only hope
---

I dont need to check since I know a lot.

In general:

USA Christianity is falling percentage wise.
In the World stage its increasing (but less than Islam).

USA
Evangelicals tend to stay similar numbers.
Mainline Protestants are falling.
Catholics slight falling.

The total numbers are not the problems.

the point is most Evangelicals are more hardcore, and way to pro Israel. in fact their policies on Israel and end times are way wrong, I dont see them as allies and im right wing.
mainline protestants are falling even when trying to be more accepting.
catholics are divided. since 1960 the majority of catholics in the west are way off track.
---

Skye Reynolds posted...

The same generalization could be made about atheism and the American left.

...what? Most Democrats are not atheists, and even those that are don't make it public.

At least in the US when you have Evangelicals making your religion look awful I imagine a lot of people don't want to be associated with them.
---

For example, because of their conservative outlook, the growing church clergy members in our study took Jesus command to Go make disciples literally. Thus, they all held the conviction its very important to encourage non-Christians to become Christians, and thus likely put effort into converting non-Christians. Conversely, because of their liberal leanings, half the clergy members at the declining churches held the opposite conviction, believing it is not desirable to convert non-Christians. Some of them felt, for instance, that peddling their religion outside of their immediate faith community is culturally insensitive.

I agree, as someone who grew up in a very conservative Southern Baptist Christian background, this is the main reason churches "growth". With that said, the research doesn't take into account how many of these Conservative Churches retention rate. Yeah they may have gotten more people in the church, but how many of them start going to the church regularly or staying in the church for that matter? I've seen this a lot, where our Church will get a bunch of new members, yet only 20% of them even come close to being loyal to the church.
---

KarmaMuffin posted...

Skye Reynolds posted...

The same generalization could be made about atheism and the American left.

...what? Most Democrats are not atheists, and even those that are don't make it public.

in the US atheists are actually small (although growing).

non-religious is split into
atheists
agnostic
and "nothing in particular" (which can mean anything, possibly including people who believe in a higher power, but no organized religion, not sure on this though).
---

Callixtus posted...

assassinCrash posted...

The number of atheists are rising in general which is great.

That's probably not very accurate. The number of irreligious people is growing, but atheists constitute a tiny percentage of the population.

that's only true cause of the label and self identification. a giant chunk of those that call themselves irreligious don't believe in god, therefore they're atheist
---

Solar_Crimson posted...

kislev posted...

Its on the rise in South East Asia and Africa but on the decline in the developed world sadly

Eh, we can do without religion in general at this point. It's not like you HAVE to be religious to have basic morals.

Religion was never needed realistically.

Religion created the concept of morality, but don't you think that people had to of known what was right and wrong, without having to have it beat into our brains what was right or wrong with a concept of good and evil?

It seems as if it's the only way for humanity to have realistically lasted to the point where we could have logically questioned the meaning of life. Just look at the bloody sloathe of wars waged in a name of a creator. Most of which was likely solely for power and political gain.

So don't you think that the whole concept of religion was likely the catalyst for most of the evils committed in the world today?
---

Christianity is believing that Jesus of Nazareth is the Son of God and following his teachings

It can't be "in decline"
---

Christianity has been in decline for over a century. Nietzsche put a pretty good scope on how people had abandoned God and their religion around the turn of the 20th century. There was a Eastern Orthodox magazine from the 90's I started reading recently, and I remember one of the lines in it pretty vividly; it talked about being a Christian in a Post-Christian age, and I think that's a pretty valid claim.
---

It's probably in a minor decline. But the small minority of non Christian''s is also extremely vocal on the non existent of God and makes it seem like no one believes in a God at all.

ThyCorndog posted...

Callixtus posted...

assassinCrash posted...

The number of atheists are rising in general which is great.

That's probably not very accurate. The number of irreligious people is growing, but atheists constitute a tiny percentage of the population.

that's only true cause of the label and self identification. a giant chunk of those that call themselves irreligious don't believe in god, therefore they're atheist

Most people that are irreligious are agnostics and deistic types, not atheists.
---

Callixtus posted...

The liberal "make it up as you go" brand

you mean that stuff Jesus actually advocated

KarmaMuffin posted...

Skye Reynolds posted...

The same generalization could be made about atheism and the American left.

...what? Most Democrats are not atheists, and even those that are don't make it public.

That's kind of the point. When dealing with generalizations, you're inherently dealing with something that is untrue when assumed of all members of a group. Not all people on the right are religious. Not all people on the left are atheist. But there are people on either side who will use religion (or opposition to religion) as a political tool.

Skye Reynolds posted...

- there's an ongoing association between Christianity and homophobia

This rationale doesn't align with the data. The most liberal churches, and therefore those most aligned with secular values, like support for same sex marriage, are the ones declining the quickest. Those most opposed to same sex marriage are staying the same or growing.
---

Most Christians are Christian in name only, and dont actually follow our religion
---

Skye Reynolds posted...

KarmaMuffin posted...

Skye Reynolds posted...

The same generalization could be made about atheism and the American left.

...what? Most Democrats are not atheists, and even those that are don't make it public.

That's kind of the point. When dealing with generalizations, you're inherently dealing with something that is untrue when assumed of all members of a group. Not all people on the right are religious. Not all people on the left are atheist. But there are people on either side who will use religion (or opposition to religion) as a political tool.

yeah no. that's a false equivalence skyem
---

As a Christian, the strengthening of the evangelical side of the religion is really disheartening.
---

I mean, all we can go by is what people identify their (lack of) religion as. Even if perhaps not everyone is totally honest, or even if there isn't a whole lot of "real" difference between any two religious labels, the specific "truth" of a label has never been what matters. The only thing that has ever mattered when talking about how widespread and/or influential a particular label is, is the number of people willing to wear it.
---

foreveraIone posted...

Skye Reynolds posted...

KarmaMuffin posted...

Skye Reynolds posted...

The same generalization could be made about atheism and the American left.

...what? Most Democrats are not atheists, and even those that are don't make it public.

That's kind of the point. When dealing with generalizations, you're inherently dealing with something that is untrue when assumed of all members of a group. Not all people on the right are religious. Not all people on the left are atheist. But there are people on either side who will use religion (or opposition to religion) as a political tool.

yeah no. that's a false equivalence skyem

In what way is it a false equivalence? If I had said right wingers were Christian and left wingers were atheist, that would certainly ring false. To say that some members on either side use Christianity or atheism as a tool to reach a specific end is true though.

UnholyMudcrab posted...

As a Christian, the strengthening of the evangelical side of the religion is really disheartening.

Yeah especially because it's not just their own country they're ruining :(
---

Skye Reynolds posted...

To say that some members on either side use Christianity or atheism as a tool to reach a specific end is true though.

You are so ignorant it hurts.

The religious right is a massive voting block.

There is no atheist equivalent in politics.

just stop posting.
---

foreveraIone posted...

Skye Reynolds posted...

To say that some members on either side use Christianity or atheism as a tool to reach a specific end is true though.

You are so ignorant it hurts.

The religious right is a massive voting block.

There is no atheist equivalent in politics.

just stop posting.

There is no atheist voting block, but I think it's hard to argue that there is a huge irreligious voting block within the Democratic party.
---

Christianity will exist until the world is destroyed. Then we'll just be kicking it with the Lord. Yay!

assassinCrash posted...

The number of atheists are rising in general which is great.

Oh yes, the "I choose to 100% believe a god type being cannot/doesn't exist even though it's impossible for me to know either way, but choose to believe 100% one doesn't on pure...LOL, wait for it..."faith" alone.

Oh god humans, never change.

I get not believing in religions, sure. But the God thing...and the afterlife thing (two separate things by the way. You can believe in one and not the other) the best and only truthful answer is "I don't know either way".
---

Master X posted...

Oh yes, the "I choose to 100% believe a god type being cannot/doesn't exist even though it's impossible for me to know either way, but choose to believe 100% one doesn't on pure...LOL, wait for it..."faith" alone.

Oh god humans, never change.

I get not believing in religions, sure. But the God thing...and the afterlife thing (two separate things by the way. You can believe in one and not the other) the best and only truthful answer is "I don't know either way".

---

prince_leo posted...

Master X posted...

Oh yes, the "I choose to 100% believe a god type being cannot/doesn't exist even though it's impossible for me to know either way, but choose to believe 100% one doesn't on pure...LOL, wait for it..."faith" alone.

Oh god humans, never change.

I get not believing in religions, sure. But the God thing...and the afterlife thing (two separate things by the way. You can believe in one and not the other) the best and only truthful answer is "I don't know either way".

yeah, exactly. and I would argue that everyone is agnostic. the only condition where someone can be gnostic is if a god actually does exist and personally had contact with that person. I don't think a gnostic atheist can logically exist. I've always maintained that I'm an agnostic atheist, but I drop the agnostic bit because it's irrelevant until conversations like this
---

ThyCorndog posted...

I've always maintained that I'm an agnostic atheist, but I drop the agnostic bit because it's irrelevant until conversations like this

yeah, I feel the same way
---

Skye Reynolds posted...

- there's an ongoing association between Christianity and homophobia

Let's be honest; it's not an association. The Bible literally sets out rules for killing homosexuals (at least males that have sex), so it's not like it's just some random occurrence that those things are associated.

Otherwise, I'd have to see more stats. Personally, I see governments in the developed world tend to be distancing themselves from the idea of a single state religion, which in turn has meant that Christianity is no longer the economic or political power it once was. On the other hand, that has absolutely nothing to do with people's personal beliefs and whether they have any sort of rituals or rites they do in their free-time.

As well, society has made a swing towards individualism, which means that the role of religion has to change. In the past, religion served a unifying purpose. A church was a social club as much as it was a place of worship. They served as centers of the more philosophical sides of society and helped move society in different direcitons (sometimes good, sometimes bad). Nowadays, though, people view it as a largely personal matter. Religion is supposed to benefit you on an individual level. Your commitment to it is not about upholding your community, but about uplifting yourself.

So while it's impossible, with current stats, for me to say if it has declined, the place of religion in the world has certainly changed monumentally, at least in the developed world.

Frankly, a lot of things are said in the Bible.

Even when I believed it was a sin, it wasn't because of two passing lines in the Bible, but because so many pastors were against it. I reasoned that, if those closest to God were opposed to it, it must be wrong.

It was ugly the way that people interpreted the will of God in ancient times. If someone got sick from eating shellfish, which swim in their own feces, it meant that it was an abomination. If someone contracted a venereal disease after being with men, it meant that it was an abomination. People look at that ancient book of law and cherry pick the part which serves their own needs.

So, no. I don't think homophobia is in any way an inherent part of Christianity. Most Christians under 35 are okay with homosexuality. The rest are either unwilling or unable to challenge their previously held views or are deliberately holding onto them for the same reasons that anyone else holds onto bigoted notions.

That said, when you see the sheer multitude of people who will dig trenches and fight to the very end against the inevitable progress of human equality, it does become easy to generalize Christians.

EverDownward posted...

Christianity has been in decline for over a century. Nietzsche put a pretty good scope on how people had abandoned God and their religion around the turn of the 20th century. There was a Eastern Orthodox magazine from the 90's I started reading recently, and I remember one of the lines in it pretty vividly; it talked about being a Christian in a Post-Christian age, and I think that's a pretty valid claim.

While he was right, Nietzsche was blacklisted in academia for the things he wrote about Christianity. Most of his books sold under 200 copies during his writing career before his failing health took his sanity along with it. His work is actually much more relevant today than it was at the time he was writing it, people still have the slave morality but they're not united in the beliefs that they are enslaved to anymore which explains an awful lot about the current political climate.
---

Skye Reynolds posted...

Frankly, a lot of things are said in the Bible.

Even when I believed it was a sin, it wasn't because of two passing lines in the Bible, but because so many pastors were against it. I reasoned that, if those closest to God were opposed to it, it must be wrong.

It was ugly the way that people interpreted the will of God in ancient times. If someone got sick from eating shellfish, which swim in their own feces, it meant that it was an abomination. If someone contracted a venereal disease after being with men, it meant that it was an abomination. People look at that ancient book of law and cherry pick the part which serves their own needs.

So, no. I don't think homophobia is in any way an inherent part of Christianity. Most Christians under 35 are okay with homosexuality. The rest are either unwilling or unable to challenge their previously held views or are deliberately holding onto them for the same reasons that anyone else holds onto bigoted notions.

That said, when you see the sheer multitude of people who will dig trenches and fight to the very end against the inevitable progress of human equality, it does become easy to generalize Christians.

Which would be a fine argument, if the book didn't explicitly state that it is a timeless chronicle of God's will. It doesn't say, 'these are the things that make sense to us now' it says, 'this is the testament of God for now and forever'. Being unchangeable is one of the important hallmarks of the Bible.

Yeah, Christianity is dying. You dont need any research to prove this. Just look around you, with your own eyes, especially at the younger generation. The percentage of atheists/non-religious people is much higher in younger generations.

I think Christianity caused enough misery to humanity already, especially the Catholic Church. Primitive Christianity is Sun worship, and Catholicism is Saturn worship. It is sad to think the vast majority of mortals follow religions with hidden messages and symbols they dont understand, and will probably never understand.
---

The thing is; even if God came to you and displayed incredible feats (even reality warping) HOW do you prove it is actually God and not a Star Trek faux God trick scenario...?
---

Master X posted...

The thing is; even if God came to you and displayed incredible feats (even reality warping) HOW do you prove it is actually God and not a Star Trek faux God trick scenario...?

Can the human mind even comprehend a God? Who knwos maybe the universe itself is God or maybe its a thing far beyond what we can imagine
---

Callixtus posted...

Research suggest that it depends on what sort of Christianity you are talking about. The liberal "make it up as you go" brand is certainly facing massive declines across the board. Conservative churches, however, seem to be strong and growing.

You may have noticed that religious fundamentalism has been a resurgent global phenomenon in recent years. It may be exciting for people short on tolerance and long in simple-minded certainty, but no one should be happy about it.
---