etc" transgenderism

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Zeeak4444 09/05/17 4:33:08 PM #1:	Be to work on eliminating gender roles in society instead of reinforcing them by transitioning? Serious question looking for good discussion. Wouldn't it be far more beneficial to just work on eliminating gender roles in society aside from strictly assigning them for reproduction? Anyone who transitioned or is thinking of transitioning have an opinion? It seems like identifying sex has social utility for reproduction reasons but gender roles don't really have much utility or benefits. --- Typical gameFAQers are "Complainers that always complain about those who complain about real legitimate complaints."-Joker_X <cite>Zeeak4444 posted [p:886077279] in Wouldn't t... [t:75744580]...</cite> <quote>Be to work on eliminating gender roles in society instead of reinforcing them by transitioning? Serious question looking for good discussion. Wouldn't it be far more beneficial to just work on eliminating gender roles in society aside from strictly assigning them for reproduction? Anyone who transitioned or is thinking of transitioning have an opinion? It seems like identifying sex has social utility for reproduction reasons but gender roles don't really have much utility or benefits.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
darkjedilink 09/05/17 4:34:57 PM #2:	As long as the left demonizes anyone who doesn't think genital mutilation is a good thing, we're never going to cure it. --- 'It's okay that those gangbangers stole all my personal belongings and cash at gunpoint, cuz they're building a rec center!' - OneTimeBen <cite>darkjedilink posted [p:886077401] in Wouldn't t... [t:75744580]...</cite> <quote>As long as the left demonizes anyone who doesn't think genital mutilation is a good thing, we're never going to cure it.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
The Admiral 09/05/17 4:35:16 PM #3:	Finding an actual medical cure. SRS, hormones, and societal acceptance are all imperfect treatments. --- - The Admiral <cite>The Admiral posted [p:886077419] in Wouldn't t... [t:75744580]...</cite> <quote>Finding an actual medical cure. SRS, hormones, and societal acceptance are all imperfect treatments.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Zeeak4444 09/05/17 4:39:00 PM #4:	The Admiral posted... Finding an actual medical cure. SRS, hormones, and societal acceptance are all imperfect treatments. And if the roles have no use being in society than there's no real medical cure for something like that. It's very possible the "cure" will not be medical and there's nothing wrong with that. --- Typical gameFAQers are "Complainers that always complain about those who complain about real legitimate complaints."-Joker_X <cite>Zeeak4444 posted [p:886077657] in Wouldn't t... [t:75744580]...</cite> <quote><cite>The Admiral posted...</cite> <quote>Finding an actual medical cure. SRS, hormones, and societal acceptance are all imperfect treatments.</quote> And if the roles have no use being in society than there's no real medical cure for something like that. It's very possible the "cure" will not be medical and there's nothing wrong with that.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Kisai 09/05/17 4:48:06 PM #5:	Zeeak4444 posted... Be to work on eliminating gender roles in society instead of reinforcing them by transitioning? Well for me, my being transgender isn't just about any sort of "gender role", as much as it is the appearance. This stems from my "younger" early-20s days, where I — for some reason — honestly believed the only difference that should be seen between men and women is purely physical. That guys should be allowed access to "feminine" clothing and activities, and girls allowed access to "masculine" things as well without any sort of fear of ridicule. That no clothes or hobbies should be seen as exclusive for either gender. The only difference would be simply appearance. I realize now how ridiculously ideal that is, though. Things are never going to be that equal. Although, I will admit, a tiny part of my being transgender does stem partially from certain gender roles, but I would rather do those things as a girl anyway. --- WHO MODS THE MODERATORS? <cite>Kisai posted [p:886078270] in Wouldn't t... [t:75744580]...</cite> <quote><cite>Zeeak4444 posted...</cite> <quote>Be to work on eliminating gender roles in society instead of reinforcing them by transitioning?</quote> Well for me, my being transgender isn't just about any sort of "gender role", as much as it is the appearance. This stems from my "younger" early-20s days, where I — for some reason — honestly believed the only difference that should be seen between men and women is purely physical. That guys should be allowed access to "feminine" clothing and activities, and girls allowed access to "masculine" things as well without any sort of fear of ridicule. That no clothes or hobbies should be seen as exclusive for either gender. The only difference would be simply appearance. I realize now how ridiculously ideal that is, though. Things are never going to be that equal. Although, I will admit, a tiny part of my being transgender does stem partially from certain gender roles, but I would rather do those things as a girl anyway.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Zeeak4444 09/05/17 5:03:54 PM #6:	Kisai posted... Zeeak4444 posted... Be to work on eliminating gender roles in society instead of reinforcing them by transitioning? Well for me, my being transgender isn't just about any sort of "gender role", as much as it is the appearance. This stems from my "younger" early-20s days, where I — for some reason — honestly believed the only difference that should be seen between men and women is purely physical. That guys should be allowed access to "feminine" clothing and activities, and girls allowed access to "masculine" things as well without any sort of fear of ridicule. That no clothes or hobbies should be seen as exclusive for either gender. The only difference would be simply appearance. I realize now how ridiculously ideal that is, though. Things are never going to be that equal. Although, I will admit, a tiny part of my being transgender does stem partially from certain gender roles, but I would rather do those things as a girl anyway. That makes a lot of sense to me. That first part was pretty much my perception as well. It seems a lot of the stress and ostracism people get come from not conforming to normal societal roles. In those cases the roles usually have some type of useful utility though but I can't honestly think of any for gender roles aside from maybe attraction (which itself is arbitrary). I agree though it's unrealistic to think we'll even start progressing towards that route though. I really appreciate you sharing your experience and opinion on the topic! --- Typical gameFAQers are "Complainers that always complain about those who complain about real legitimate complaints."-Joker_X <cite>Zeeak4444 posted [p:886079272] in Wouldn't t... [t:75744580]...</cite> <quote><cite>Kisai posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Zeeak4444 posted...</cite> <quote>Be to work on eliminating gender roles in society instead of reinforcing them by transitioning?</quote> Well for me, my being transgender isn't just about any sort of "gender role", as much as it is the appearance. This stems from my "younger" early-20s days, where I — for some reason — honestly believed the only difference that should be seen between men and women is purely physical. That guys should be allowed access to "feminine" clothing and activities, and girls allowed access to "masculine" things as well without any sort of fear of ridicule. That no clothes or hobbies should be seen as exclusive for either gender. The only difference would be simply appearance. I realize now how ridiculously ideal that is, though. Things are never going to be that equal. Although, I will admit, a tiny part of my being transgender does stem partially from certain gender roles, but I would rather do those things as a girl anyway.</quote> That makes a lot of sense to me. That first part was pretty much my perception as well. It seems a lot of the stress and ostracism people get come from not conforming to normal societal roles. In those cases the roles usually have some type of useful utility though but I can't honestly think of any for gender roles aside from maybe attraction (which itself is arbitrary). I agree though it's unrealistic to think we'll even start progressing towards that route though. I really appreciate you sharing your experience and opinion on the topic!</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Knowledge_King 09/05/17 7:40:45 PM #7:	No. The roles are in place for a reason. --- http://www.warwithwords.com He Who Leads: Global Ebook Award Winner:https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01CE0TLLM <cite>Knowledge_King posted [p:886088321] in Wouldn't t... [t:75744580]...</cite> <quote>No. The roles are in place for a reason.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Zeeak4444 09/05/17 8:07:40 PM #8:	Knowledge_King posted... No. The roles are in place for a reason. @Knowledge_King Like what? What's a beneficial reason they're in place? --- Typical gameFAQers are "Complainers that always complain about those who complain about real legitimate complaints."-Joker_X <cite>Zeeak4444 posted [p:886089818] in Wouldn't t... [t:75744580]...</cite> <quote><cite>Knowledge_King posted...</cite> <quote>No. The roles are in place for a reason.</quote> @Knowledge_King Like what? What's a beneficial reason they're in place?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
COVxy 09/05/17 8:12:08 PM #9:	Gender roles aren't the reason people are transgendered. --- =E[(x-E[x])(y-E[y])] <cite>COVxy posted [p:886090065] in Wouldn't t... [t:75744580]...</cite> <quote>Gender roles aren't the reason people are transgendered.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Zeeak4444 09/05/17 8:13:08 PM #10:	COVxy posted... Gender roles aren't the reason people are transgendered. No one said it was ffs. --- Typical gameFAQers are "Complainers that always complain about those who complain about real legitimate complaints."-Joker_X <cite>Zeeak4444 posted [p:886090123] in Wouldn't t... [t:75744580]...</cite> <quote><cite>COVxy posted...</cite> <quote>Gender roles aren't the reason people are transgendered.</quote> No one said it was ffs.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
COVxy 09/05/17 8:14:43 PM #11:	Then how would eliminating gender roles fix transgenderism? --- =E[(x-E[x])(y-E[y])] <cite>COVxy posted [p:886090223] in Wouldn't t... [t:75744580]...</cite> <quote>Then how would eliminating gender roles fix transgenderism?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
FLUFFYGERM 09/05/17 8:15:30 PM #12:	COVxy posted... Then how would eliminating gender roles fix transgenderism? tc is a postmodernist. he doesnt want to fix anything <cite>FLUFFYGERM posted [p:886090276] in Wouldn't t... [t:75744580]...</cite> <quote><cite>COVxy posted...</cite> <quote>Then how would eliminating gender roles fix transgenderism?</quote> tc is a postmodernist. he doesnt want to fix anything</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Zeeak4444 09/05/17 8:17:37 PM #13:	COVxy posted... Then how would eliminating gender roles fix transgenderism? I said fix/Help among others. I used every term I could think of specifically to avoid stupid comments like that. Unless you're arguing that eliminating them has no chance to improve the current situation and such. If that's the case we can discuss that though. --- Typical gameFAQers are "Complainers that always complain about those who complain about real legitimate complaints."-Joker_X <cite>Zeeak4444 posted [p:886090401] in Wouldn't t... [t:75744580]...</cite> <quote><cite>COVxy posted...</cite> <quote>Then how would eliminating gender roles fix transgenderism?</quote> I said fix/Help among others. I used every term I could think of specifically to avoid stupid comments like that. Unless you're arguing that eliminating them has no chance to improve the current situation and such. If that's the case we can discuss that though.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Zeeak4444 09/05/17 8:18:31 PM #14:	FLUFFYGERM posted... COVxy posted... Then how would eliminating gender roles fix transgenderism? tc is a postmodernist. he doesnt want to fix anything 80 karma in 8 years. Why are you even talking? --- Typical gameFAQers are "Complainers that always complain about those who complain about real legitimate complaints."-Joker_X <cite>Zeeak4444 posted [p:886090464] in Wouldn't t... [t:75744580]...</cite> <quote><cite>FLUFFYGERM posted...</cite> <quote><cite>COVxy posted...</cite> <quote>Then how would eliminating gender roles fix transgenderism?</quote> tc is a postmodernist. he doesnt want to fix anything</quote> 80 karma in 8 years. Why are you even talking?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Anteaterking 09/05/17 8:18:59 PM #15:	Zeeak4444 posted... Unless you're arguing that eliminating them has no chance to improve the current situation and such. If that's the case we can discuss that though. Which gender norms do you think are the relevant ones here? --- http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b136/Anteaterking/scan00021.jpg http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b136/Anteaterking/scan00021.jpg <cite>Anteaterking posted [p:886090494] in Wouldn't t... [t:75744580]...</cite> <quote><cite>Zeeak4444 posted...</cite> <quote>Unless you're arguing that eliminating them has no chance to improve the current situation and such. If that's the case we can discuss that though.</quote> Which gender norms do you think are the relevant ones here?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
FLUFFYGERM 09/05/17 8:20:18 PM #16:	Zeeak4444 posted... FLUFFYGERM posted... COVxy posted... Then how would eliminating gender roles fix transgenderism? tc is a postmodernist. he doesnt want to fix anything 80 karma in 8 years. Why are you even talking? also a karmaist i see <cite>FLUFFYGERM posted [p:886090575] in Wouldn't t... [t:75744580]...</cite> <quote><cite>Zeeak4444 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>FLUFFYGERM posted...</cite> <quote><cite>COVxy posted...</cite> <quote>Then how would eliminating gender roles fix transgenderism?</quote> tc is a postmodernist. he doesnt want to fix anything</quote> 80 karma in 8 years. Why are you even talking?</quote> also a karmaist i see</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
OpheliaAdenade 09/05/17 8:21:04 PM #17:	In order to get rid of gender roles, we'd first have to do something about the anima and animus that exists inside the collective unconscious. I don't think that's possible though. It is an integral part of what makes us human. :u --- http://imgur.com/Q6Qj55q <cite>OpheliaAdenade posted [p:886090617] in Wouldn't t... [t:75744580]...</cite> <quote>In order to get rid of gender roles, we'd first have to do something about the anima and animus that exists inside the collective unconscious. I don't think that's possible though. It is an integral part of what makes us human. :u</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Zeeak4444 09/05/17 8:21:06 PM #18:	Anteaterking posted... Zeeak4444 posted... Unless you're arguing that eliminating them has no chance to improve the current situation and such. If that's the case we can discuss that though. Which gender norms do you think are the relevant ones here? That's the discussion I was hoping to have. I don't hold a strong opinion myself but it was a question that popped in my head. I'd say most that don't have social utility are questionable but I'm not gonna say they're outright unneeded/wanted. --- Typical gameFAQers are "Complainers that always complain about those who complain about real legitimate complaints."-Joker_X <cite>Zeeak4444 posted [p:886090619] in Wouldn't t... [t:75744580]...</cite> <quote><cite>Anteaterking posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Zeeak4444 posted...</cite> <quote>Unless you're arguing that eliminating them has no chance to improve the current situation and such. If that's the case we can discuss that though.</quote> Which gender norms do you think are the relevant ones here?</quote> That's the discussion I was hoping to have. I don't hold a strong opinion myself but it was a question that popped in my head. I'd say most that don't have social utility are questionable but I'm not gonna say they're outright unneeded/wanted.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
COVxy 09/05/17 8:21:16 PM #19:	Zeeak4444 posted... COVxy posted... Then how would eliminating gender roles fix transgenderism? I said fix/Help among others. I used every term I could think of specifically to avoid stupid comments like that. Unless you're arguing that eliminating them has no chance to improve the current situation and such. If that's the case we can discuss that though. It's a stupid idea that demonstrates a lack of understanding. Nobody is transgendered because they think "I'm female, but I like football and muted colors, I must be a dude." --- =E[(x-E[x])(y-E[y])] <cite>COVxy posted [p:886090632] in Wouldn't t... [t:75744580]...</cite> <quote><cite>Zeeak4444 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>COVxy posted...</cite> <quote>Then how would eliminating gender roles fix transgenderism?</quote> I said fix/Help among others. I used every term I could think of specifically to avoid stupid comments like that. Unless you're arguing that eliminating them has no chance to improve the current situation and such. If that's the case we can discuss that though.</quote> It's a stupid idea that demonstrates a lack of understanding. Nobody is transgendered because they think "I'm female, but I like football and muted colors, I must be a dude."</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Zeeak4444 09/05/17 8:22:20 PM #20:	FLUFFYGERM posted... Zeeak4444 posted... FLUFFYGERM posted... COVxy posted... Then how would eliminating gender roles fix transgenderism? tc is a postmodernist. he doesnt want to fix anything 80 karma in 8 years. Why are you even talking? also a karmaist i see At least I don't pressume stupid shit. My statement was factual while yours was absurdly incorrect. --- Typical gameFAQers are "Complainers that always complain about those who complain about real legitimate complaints."-Joker_X <cite>Zeeak4444 posted [p:886090698] in Wouldn't t... [t:75744580]...</cite> <quote><cite>FLUFFYGERM posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Zeeak4444 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>FLUFFYGERM posted...</cite> <quote><cite>COVxy posted...</cite> <quote>Then how would eliminating gender roles fix transgenderism?</quote> tc is a postmodernist. he doesnt want to fix anything</quote> 80 karma in 8 years. Why are you even talking?</quote> also a karmaist i see</quote> At least I don't pressume stupid shit. My statement was factual while yours was absurdly incorrect.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Zeeak4444 09/05/17 8:23:02 PM #21:	OpheliaAdenade posted... In order to get rid of gender roles, we'd first have to do something about the anima and animus that exists inside the collective unconscious. I don't think that's possible though. It is an integral part of what makes us human. :u That's a very good point. Even if we could though, would we want to? --- Typical gameFAQers are "Complainers that always complain about those who complain about real legitimate complaints."-Joker_X <cite>Zeeak4444 posted [p:886090749] in Wouldn't t... [t:75744580]...</cite> <quote><cite>OpheliaAdenade posted...</cite> <quote>In order to get rid of gender roles, we'd first have to do something about the anima and animus that exists inside the collective unconscious. I don't think that's possible though. It is an integral part of what makes us human. :u</quote> That's a very good point. Even if we could though, would we want to?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
FLUFFYGERM 09/05/17 8:23:06 PM #22:	Zeeak4444 posted... FLUFFYGERM posted... Zeeak4444 posted... FLUFFYGERM posted... COVxy posted... Then how would eliminating gender roles fix transgenderism? tc is a postmodernist. he doesnt want to fix anything 80 karma in 8 years. Why are you even talking? also a karmaist i see At least I don't pressume stupid shit. My statement was factual while yours was absurdly incorrect. prove that your statement was factual son, git rekt <cite>FLUFFYGERM posted [p:886090755] in Wouldn't t... [t:75744580]...</cite> <quote><cite>Zeeak4444 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>FLUFFYGERM posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Zeeak4444 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>FLUFFYGERM posted...</cite> <quote><cite>COVxy posted...</cite> <quote>Then how would eliminating gender roles fix transgenderism?</quote> tc is a postmodernist. he doesnt want to fix anything</quote> 80 karma in 8 years. Why are you even talking?</quote> also a karmaist i see</quote> At least I don't pressume stupid shit. My statement was factual while yours was absurdly incorrect.</quote> prove that your statement was factual son, git rekt</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Zeeak4444 09/05/17 8:24:58 PM #23:	COVxy posted... Zeeak4444 posted... COVxy posted... Then how would eliminating gender roles fix transgenderism? I said fix/Help among others. I used every term I could think of specifically to avoid stupid comments like that. Unless you're arguing that eliminating them has no chance to improve the current situation and such. If that's the case we can discuss that though. It's a stupid idea that demonstrates a lack of understanding. Nobody is transgendered because they think "I'm female, but I like football and muted colors, I must be a dude." No but it's stupid as hell to say they don't get pressured to conform to those roles and are instantly perceived by them which is a huge complaint by both the transgender community as well as plenty of Cis gender people or whatever. So you're saying we should ignore aspects such as those because they're not the root causes? Is that correct? --- Typical gameFAQers are "Complainers that always complain about those who complain about real legitimate complaints."-Joker_X <cite>Zeeak4444 posted [p:886090872] in Wouldn't t... [t:75744580]...</cite> <quote><cite>COVxy posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Zeeak4444 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>COVxy posted...</cite> <quote>Then how would eliminating gender roles fix transgenderism?</quote> I said fix/Help among others. I used every term I could think of specifically to avoid stupid comments like that. Unless you're arguing that eliminating them has no chance to improve the current situation and such. If that's the case we can discuss that though.</quote> It's a stupid idea that demonstrates a lack of understanding. Nobody is transgendered because they think "I'm female, but I like football and muted colors, I must be a dude."</quote> No but it's stupid as hell to say they don't get pressured to conform to those roles and are instantly perceived by them which is a huge complaint by both the transgender community as well as plenty of Cis gender people or whatever. So you're saying we should ignore aspects such as those because they're not the root causes? Is that correct?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Zeeak4444 09/05/17 8:26:24 PM #24:	FLUFFYGERM posted... Zeeak4444 posted... FLUFFYGERM posted... Zeeak4444 posted... FLUFFYGERM posted... COVxy posted... Then how would eliminating gender roles fix transgenderism? tc is a postmodernist. he doesnt want to fix anything 80 karma in 8 years. Why are you even talking? also a karmaist i see At least I don't pressume stupid shit. My statement was factual while yours was absurdly incorrect. prove that your statement was factual son, git rekt Anyone who clicks your name is gonna see 80 Karma. I don't need to prove something that's publically displayed for all to see. --- Typical gameFAQers are "Complainers that always complain about those who complain about real legitimate complaints."-Joker_X <cite>Zeeak4444 posted [p:886090953] in Wouldn't t... [t:75744580]...</cite> <quote><cite>FLUFFYGERM posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Zeeak4444 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>FLUFFYGERM posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Zeeak4444 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>FLUFFYGERM posted...</cite> <quote><cite>COVxy posted...</cite> <quote>Then how would eliminating gender roles fix transgenderism?</quote> tc is a postmodernist. he doesnt want to fix anything</quote> 80 karma in 8 years. Why are you even talking?</quote> also a karmaist i see</quote> At least I don't pressume stupid shit. My statement was factual while yours was absurdly incorrect.</quote> prove that your statement was factual son, git rekt</quote> Anyone who clicks your name is gonna see 80 Karma. I don't need to prove something that's publically displayed for all to see.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
FLUFFYGERM 09/05/17 8:26:53 PM #25:	Zeeak4444 posted... COVxy posted... Zeeak4444 posted... COVxy posted... Then how would eliminating gender roles fix transgenderism? I said fix/Help among others. I used every term I could think of specifically to avoid stupid comments like that. Unless you're arguing that eliminating them has no chance to improve the current situation and such. If that's the case we can discuss that though. It's a stupid idea that demonstrates a lack of understanding. Nobody is transgendered because they think "I'm female, but I like football and muted colors, I must be a dude." No but it's stupid as hell to say they don't get pressured to conform to those roles and are instantly perceived by them which is a huge complaint by both the transgender community as well as plenty of Cis gender people or whatever. So you're saying we should ignore aspects such as those because they're not the root causes? Is that correct? we should ignore that because people need to learn how to be their own person. sometimes this means knowing how to deal with people's expectations in a graceful and effective way. trying to control the world so that no one ever feels challenged or compared against any standard of any kind is not realistic and not conducive to growing emotionally healthy and mature young adults. <cite>FLUFFYGERM posted [p:886090976] in Wouldn't t... [t:75744580]...</cite> <quote><cite>Zeeak4444 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>COVxy posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Zeeak4444 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>COVxy posted...</cite> <quote>Then how would eliminating gender roles fix transgenderism?</quote> I said fix/Help among others. I used every term I could think of specifically to avoid stupid comments like that. Unless you're arguing that eliminating them has no chance to improve the current situation and such. If that's the case we can discuss that though.</quote> It's a stupid idea that demonstrates a lack of understanding. Nobody is transgendered because they think "I'm female, but I like football and muted colors, I must be a dude."</quote> No but it's stupid as hell to say they don't get pressured to conform to those roles and are instantly perceived by them which is a huge complaint by both the transgender community as well as plenty of Cis gender people or whatever. So you're saying we should ignore aspects such as those because they're not the root causes? Is that correct?</quote> we should ignore that because people need to learn how to be their own person. sometimes this means knowing how to deal with people's expectations in a graceful and effective way. trying to control the world so that no one ever feels challenged or compared against any standard of any kind is not realistic and not conducive to growing emotionally healthy and mature young adults.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Anteaterking 09/05/17 8:27:19 PM #26:	Zeeak4444 posted... I'd say most that don't have social utility are questionable but I'm not gonna say they're outright unneeded/wanted. I'm not sure they exist. Norms regarding what kind of jobs people have, which partner is the breadwinner, etc. don't really matter in this context. What hobbies and preferences people have wouldn't either. I guess the closest thing is if it became more acceptable for people to wear clothes of the other gender, but I don't think that anti-trans people would suddenly not care about them. Besides, not every transgender female wears dresses all of the time or anything like that. --- http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b136/Anteaterking/scan00021.jpg http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b136/Anteaterking/scan00021.jpg <cite>Anteaterking posted [p:886091002] in Wouldn't t... [t:75744580]...</cite> <quote><cite>Zeeak4444 posted...</cite> <quote>I'd say most that don't have social utility are questionable but I'm not gonna say they're outright unneeded/wanted.</quote> I'm not sure they exist. Norms regarding what kind of jobs people have, which partner is the breadwinner, etc. don't really matter in this context. What hobbies and preferences people have wouldn't either. I guess the closest thing is if it became more acceptable for people to wear clothes of the other gender, but I don't think that anti-trans people would suddenly not care about them. Besides, not every transgender female wears dresses all of the time or anything like that.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
On_The_Edge 09/05/17 8:27:27 PM #27:	Only a totalitarian would suggest ""eliminating"" something that is perfectly natural and accepted by 99% of society because of a small minority of people struggle with it --- We're here. <cite>On_The_Edge posted [p:886091013] in Wouldn't t... [t:75744580]...</cite> <quote>Only a totalitarian would suggest ""eliminating"" something that is perfectly natural and accepted by 99% of society because of a small minority of people struggle with it</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Zeeak4444 09/05/17 8:30:00 PM #28:	I'm not saying control the role. I asked if there was any benefit or social utility to having them in the first place, and if there isn't, why wouldn't we want to work towards eliminating them. All I'm hearing is "the roles should be there because they're there". I'm looking for discussion. If I wanted information on what we already accept I'd just read more articles. --- Typical gameFAQers are "Complainers that always complain about those who complain about real legitimate complaints."-Joker_X <cite>Zeeak4444 posted [p:886091162] in Wouldn't t... [t:75744580]...</cite> <quote>I'm not saying control the role. I asked if there was any benefit or social utility to having them in the first place, and if there isn't, why wouldn't we want to work towards eliminating them. All I'm hearing is "the roles should be there because they're there". I'm looking for discussion. If I wanted information on what we already accept I'd just read more articles.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
DarkChozoGhost 09/05/17 8:32:15 PM #29:	Zeeak4444 posted... Wouldn't the best way to "fix/deal with/cure/help/etc" transgenderism be to work on eliminating gender roles in society instead of reinforcing them by transitioning? Nope --- My sister's dog bit a hole in my Super Mario Land cartridge. It still works though - Skye Reynolds 3DS FC: 3239-5612-0115 <cite>DarkChozoGhost posted [p:886091323] in Wouldn't t... [t:75744580]...</cite> <quote><cite>Zeeak4444 posted...</cite> <quote>Wouldn't the best way to "fix/deal with/cure/help/etc" transgenderism be to work on eliminating gender roles in society instead of reinforcing them by transitioning? </quote> Nope</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Anteaterking 09/05/17 8:32:20 PM #30:	Zeeak4444 posted... All I'm hearing is "the roles should be there because they're there". Only one person ITT said that. Everyone else seems to be saying "It would have no effect on Transgender people". --- http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b136/Anteaterking/scan00021.jpg http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b136/Anteaterking/scan00021.jpg <cite>Anteaterking posted [p:886091333] in Wouldn't t... [t:75744580]...</cite> <quote><cite>Zeeak4444 posted...</cite> <quote>All I'm hearing is "the roles should be there because they're there". </quote> Only one person ITT said that. Everyone else seems to be saying "It would have no effect on Transgender people".</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
OpheliaAdenade 09/05/17 8:34:39 PM #31:	I think we should start letting boys wear makeup and dresses and stuff like that. :v We do let girls wear guy clothes and everything. --- http://imgur.com/Q6Qj55q <cite>OpheliaAdenade posted [p:886091496] in Wouldn't t... [t:75744580]...</cite> <quote>I think we should start letting boys wear makeup and dresses and stuff like that. :v We do let girls wear guy clothes and everything.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Zeeak4444 09/05/17 8:34:57 PM #32:	Anteaterking posted... Zeeak4444 posted... I'd say most that don't have social utility are questionable but I'm not gonna say they're outright unneeded/wanted. I'm not sure they exist. Norms regarding what kind of jobs people have, which partner is the breadwinner, etc. don't really matter in this context. What hobbies and preferences people have wouldn't either. I guess the closest thing is if it became more acceptable for people to wear clothes of the other gender, but I don't think that anti-trans people would suddenly not care about them. Besides, not every transgender female wears dresses all of the time or anything like that. I guess I meant more in regards to stereotypes than outright roles. Men being emotional Women being masculine Stereotypes perpetuated by mainstream entertainment/media (though that seems to sorta be changing). I guess I'm thinking more along the lines of unisex everything (restrooms and such) but that probably falls more in line with how prude civilized society gets (us being one of the top in regards to sex and such). That would fall under like religious values/beliefs I suppose though. --- Typical gameFAQers are "Complainers that always complain about those who complain about real legitimate complaints."-Joker_X <cite>Zeeak4444 posted [p:886091521] in Wouldn't t... [t:75744580]...</cite> <quote><cite>Anteaterking posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Zeeak4444 posted...</cite> <quote>I'd say most that don't have social utility are questionable but I'm not gonna say they're outright unneeded/wanted.</quote> I'm not sure they exist. Norms regarding what kind of jobs people have, which partner is the breadwinner, etc. don't really matter in this context. What hobbies and preferences people have wouldn't either. I guess the closest thing is if it became more acceptable for people to wear clothes of the other gender, but I don't think that anti-trans people would suddenly not care about them. Besides, not every transgender female wears dresses all of the time or anything like that.</quote> I guess I meant more in regards to stereotypes than outright roles. Men being emotional Women being masculine Stereotypes perpetuated by mainstream entertainment/media (though that seems to sorta be changing). I guess I'm thinking more along the lines of unisex everything (restrooms and such) but that probably falls more in line with how prude civilized society gets (us being one of the top in regards to sex and such). That would fall under like religious values/beliefs I suppose though.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Zeeak4444 09/05/17 8:36:07 PM #33:	Anteaterking posted... Zeeak4444 posted... All I'm hearing is "the roles should be there because they're there". Only one person ITT said that. Everyone else seems to be saying "It would have no effect on Transgender people". I meant in my experience not just this topic when I originally said that. There's clearly been far more added since then. I still haven't heard any real reasons why they exist though aside from the origins of them myself though. Can't seem to find any good reasons that aren't heavily influenced by religion either. --- Typical gameFAQers are "Complainers that always complain about those who complain about real legitimate complaints."-Joker_X <cite>Zeeak4444 posted [p:886091591] in Wouldn't t... [t:75744580]...</cite> <quote><cite>Anteaterking posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Zeeak4444 posted...</cite> <quote>All I'm hearing is "the roles should be there because they're there". </quote> Only one person ITT said that. Everyone else seems to be saying "It would have no effect on Transgender people".</quote> I meant in my experience not just this topic when I originally said that. There's clearly been far more added since then. I still haven't heard any real reasons why they exist though aside from the origins of them myself though. Can't seem to find any good reasons that aren't heavily influenced by religion either.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Dragonblade01 09/05/17 8:39:51 PM #34:	Eliminating gender roles wouldn't help because the fundamental issue in the individual themselves seems to be a biological disconnect between what their brain expects and what the body is. Sure, greater acceptance would undoubtedly help their quality of life, but the elimination of gender roles specifically probably won't do much of anything. Besides, it's unlikely that we'll ever truly be rid of gender roles, just like it would be near impossible to get rid of all roles by which society operates. If anything, they'll simply change to something else. Rather, what's more important is to create a society that doesn't criticize others for fulfilling a role uncommon to their position/demographic in society. EDIT: Also, the reason religion plays a heavy role in gender roles is due to the fact that religion was the linchpin for the larger societies that developed and lasted. --- PSN: kazukifafner <cite>Dragonblade01 posted [p:886091832] in Wouldn't t... [t:75744580]...</cite> <quote>Eliminating gender roles wouldn't help because the fundamental issue in the individual themselves seems to be a biological disconnect between what their brain expects and what the body is. Sure, greater acceptance would undoubtedly help their quality of life, but the elimination of gender roles specifically probably won't do much of anything. Besides, it's unlikely that we'll ever truly be rid of gender roles, just like it would be near impossible to get rid of all roles by which society operates. If anything, they'll simply change to something else. Rather, what's more important is to create a society that doesn't criticize others for fulfilling a role uncommon to their position/demographic in society. EDIT: Also, the reason religion plays a heavy role in gender roles is due to the fact that religion was the linchpin for the larger societies that developed and lasted.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Slip-N-Slide 09/05/17 8:40:26 PM #35:	The Admiral posted... Finding an actual medical cure. SRS, hormones, and societal acceptance are all imperfect treatments. I bet people said this about gay people too. "Yeah we can just like... Let them fuck each other since it's not hurting anyone else, but it an imperfect treatment. We need to cure what's wrong with them! Homosexuality serves no biological purpose!" --- Get wet. http://i.imgtc.com/2q3z3TmhFO.jpg <cite>Slip-N-Slide posted [p:886091872] in Wouldn't t... [t:75744580]...</cite> <quote><cite>The Admiral posted...</cite> <quote>Finding an actual medical cure. SRS, hormones, and societal acceptance are all imperfect treatments.</quote> I bet people said this about gay people too. "Yeah we can just like... Let them fuck each other since it's not hurting anyone else, but it an imperfect treatment. We need to cure what's wrong with them! Homosexuality serves no biological purpose!"</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
The Admiral 09/05/17 8:42:04 PM #36:	Slip-N-Slide posted... The Admiral posted... Finding an actual medical cure. SRS, hormones, and societal acceptance are all imperfect treatments. I bet people said this about gay people too. "Yeah we can just like... Let them fuck each other since it's not hurting anyone else, but it an imperfect treatment. We need to cure what's wrong with them! Homosexuality serves no biological purpose!" The key difference being that homosexuality is not a medical condition, whereas transgenderism is. --- - The Admiral <cite>The Admiral posted [p:886091978] in Wouldn't t... [t:75744580]...</cite> <quote><cite>Slip-N-Slide posted...</cite> <quote><cite>The Admiral posted...</cite> <quote>Finding an actual medical cure. SRS, hormones, and societal acceptance are all imperfect treatments.</quote> I bet people said this about gay people too. "Yeah we can just like... Let them fuck each other since it's not hurting anyone else, but it an imperfect treatment. We need to cure what's wrong with them! Homosexuality serves no biological purpose!"</quote> The key difference being that homosexuality is not a medical condition, whereas transgenderism is.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Zeeak4444 09/05/17 8:43:58 PM #37:	Dragonblade01 posted... Eliminating gender roles wouldn't help because the fundamental issue in the individual themselves seems to be a biological disconnect between what their brain expects and what the body is. Sure, greater acceptance would undoubtedly help their quality of life, but the elimination of gender roles specifically probably won't do much of anything. Besides, it's unlikely that we'll ever truly be rid of gender roles, just like it would be near impossible to get rid of all roles by which society operates. If anything, they'll simply change to something else. Rather, what's more important is to create a society that doesn't criticize others for fulfilling a role uncommon to their position/demographic in society. That's exactly what I was looking for more or less. Thank you for laying that out. I didn't think eliminating them would be feesible even if beneficial but it was a question I wanted to ask. You're last part about not critizing people for filling unusual roles is probably the way I should have worded or formed the discussion around. That or eliminating expectations of the gender roles. I see I fucked up pretty bad at conveying what I meant. Appreciate the input. Edit: for your edit that was what led to the thought. I wasn't sure if the roles were an artifact we kept in place or if it still had use today. --- Typical gameFAQers are "Complainers that always complain about those who complain about real legitimate complaints."-Joker_X <cite>Zeeak4444 posted [p:886092130] in Wouldn't t... [t:75744580]...</cite> <quote><cite>Dragonblade01 posted...</cite> <quote>Eliminating gender roles wouldn't help because the fundamental issue in the individual themselves seems to be a biological disconnect between what their brain expects and what the body is. Sure, greater acceptance would undoubtedly help their quality of life, but the elimination of gender roles specifically probably won't do much of anything. Besides, it's unlikely that we'll ever truly be rid of gender roles, just like it would be near impossible to get rid of all roles by which society operates. If anything, they'll simply change to something else. Rather, what's more important is to create a society that doesn't criticize others for fulfilling a role uncommon to their position/demographic in society.</quote> That's exactly what I was looking for more or less. Thank you for laying that out. I didn't think eliminating them would be feesible even if beneficial but it was a question I wanted to ask. You're last part about not critizing people for filling unusual roles is probably the way I should have worded or formed the discussion around. That or eliminating expectations of the gender roles. I see I fucked up pretty bad at conveying what I meant. Appreciate the input. Edit: for your edit that was what led to the thought. I wasn't sure if the roles were an artifact we kept in place or if it still had use today.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Dragonblade01 09/05/17 8:53:37 PM #38:	Zeeak4444 posted... Edit: for your edit that was what led to the thought. I wasn't sure if the roles were an artifact we kept in place or if it still had use today. Roles have use in that they organize society. They tell all members in a society what to do and what's expected of them. The larger the society, the more you need some sort of ideological glue that can hold everyone together. Otherwise, everyone would have just splintered back off into the smaller packs that we see in other mammals. Religion was the most effective ideological glue for a long, long stretch of human history. That said, it's important to recognize biological inclinations as well. After all, as social animals, we need to be inclined to form groups period in order for creating larger groups to be feasible. And we see these sorts of roles emerge even in the smaller groups of other mammals. Now, how much of our present idea of normative roles stems from biological urges and how much comes from millennia of cultural and social development is anyone's guess. --- PSN: kazukifafner <cite>Dragonblade01 posted [p:886092774] in Wouldn't t... [t:75744580]...</cite> <quote><cite>Zeeak4444 posted...</cite> <quote>Edit: for your edit that was what led to the thought. I wasn't sure if the roles were an artifact we kept in place or if it still had use today.</quote> Roles have use in that they organize society. They tell all members in a society what to do and what's expected of them. The larger the society, the more you need some sort of ideological glue that can hold everyone together. Otherwise, everyone would have just splintered back off into the smaller packs that we see in other mammals. Religion was the most effective ideological glue for a long, long stretch of human history. That said, it's important to recognize biological inclinations as well. After all, as social animals, we need to be inclined to form groups period in order for creating larger groups to be feasible. And we see these sorts of roles emerge even in the smaller groups of other mammals. Now, how much of our present idea of normative roles stems from biological urges and how much comes from millennia of cultural and social development is anyone's guess.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Zeeak4444 09/05/17 9:11:27 PM #39:	Dragonblade01 posted... Zeeak4444 posted... Edit: for your edit that was what led to the thought. I wasn't sure if the roles were an artifact we kept in place or if it still had use today. Roles have use in that they organize society. They tell all members in a society what to do and what's expected of them. The larger the society, the more you need some sort of ideological glue that can hold everyone together. Otherwise, everyone would have just splintered back off into the smaller packs that we see in other mammals. Religion was the most effective ideological glue for a long, long stretch of human history. That said, it's important to recognize biological inclinations as well. After all, as social animals, we need to be inclined to form groups period in order for creating larger groups to be feasible. And we see these sorts of roles emerge even in the smaller groups of other mammals. Now, how much of our present idea of normative roles stems from biological urges and how much comes from millennia of cultural and social development is anyone's guess. That was perfect. It gave me a lot of groundwork to use for research. Thanks for taking the time out to write all that up for me! --- Typical gameFAQers are "Complainers that always complain about those who complain about real legitimate complaints."-Joker_X <cite>Zeeak4444 posted [p:886093979] in Wouldn't t... [t:75744580]...</cite> <quote><cite>Dragonblade01 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Zeeak4444 posted...</cite> <quote>Edit: for your edit that was what led to the thought. I wasn't sure if the roles were an artifact we kept in place or if it still had use today.</quote> Roles have use in that they organize society. They tell all members in a society what to do and what's expected of them. The larger the society, the more you need some sort of ideological glue that can hold everyone together. Otherwise, everyone would have just splintered back off into the smaller packs that we see in other mammals. Religion was the most effective ideological glue for a long, long stretch of human history. That said, it's important to recognize biological inclinations as well. After all, as social animals, we need to be inclined to form groups period in order for creating larger groups to be feasible. And we see these sorts of roles emerge even in the smaller groups of other mammals. Now, how much of our present idea of normative roles stems from biological urges and how much comes from millennia of cultural and social development is anyone's guess.</quote> That was perfect. It gave me a lot of groundwork to use for research. Thanks for taking the time out to write all that up for me!</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Knowledge_King 09/06/17 9:02:23 AM #40:	Zeeak4444 posted... Knowledge_King posted... No. The roles are in place for a reason. @Knowledge_King Like what? What's a beneficial reason they're in place? It properly separates the genders by what they do best (generally. There are exceptions to the rule)? --- http://www.warwithwords.com He Who Leads: Global Ebook Award Winner:https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01CE0TLLM <cite>Knowledge_King posted [p:886118302] in Wouldn't t... [t:75744580]...</cite> <quote><cite>Zeeak4444 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Knowledge_King posted...</cite> <quote>No. The roles are in place for a reason.</quote> @Knowledge_King Like what? What's a beneficial reason they're in place?</quote> It properly separates the genders by what they do best (generally. There are exceptions to the rule)?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Sayoria 09/07/17 3:56:05 AM #41:	Nope, I want vaginal sex. --- i.imgur.com/OBxVnqJ.png ~ www.azaleasdolls.com/dressupgames/heroine-creator.php i.imgur.com/Pj3WBiE.jpg ~ www.dolldivine.com/sailor-moon-senshi-maker.php <cite>Sayoria posted [p:886171655] in Wouldn't t... [t:75744580]...</cite> <quote>Nope, I want vaginal sex.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Keith_Valentine 09/07/17 4:20:53 AM #42:	Zeeak4444 posted... Be to work on eliminating gender roles in society instead of reinforcing them by transitioning? Serious question looking for good discussion. Wouldn't it be far more beneficial to just work on eliminating gender roles in society aside from strictly assigning them for reproduction? Anyone who transitioned or is thinking of transitioning have an opinion? It seems like identifying sex has social utility for reproduction reasons but gender roles don't really have much utility or benefits. You could pretend to do this, but serious people would ignore it. That simple <cite>Keith_Valentine posted [p:886172129] in Wouldn't t... [t:75744580]...</cite> <quote><cite>Zeeak4444 posted...</cite> <quote>Be to work on eliminating gender roles in society instead of reinforcing them by transitioning? Serious question looking for good discussion. Wouldn't it be far more beneficial to just work on eliminating gender roles in society aside from strictly assigning them for reproduction? Anyone who transitioned or is thinking of transitioning have an opinion? It seems like identifying sex has social utility for reproduction reasons but gender roles don't really have much utility or benefits.</quote> You could pretend to do this, but serious people would ignore it. That simple</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Zodd3224 09/07/17 4:33:20 PM #43:	Why does it need to be fixed? --- http://t.qkme.me/3v9zte.jpg <cite>Zodd3224 posted [p:886200258] in Wouldn't t... [t:75744580]...</cite> <quote>Why does it need to be fixed?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Current Events > Wouldn't the best way to "fix/deal with/cure/help/etc" transgenderism (+) Yeah! (+)

Current Events > Wouldn't the best way to "fix/deal with/cure/help/etc" transgenderism