Current Events > transgendered men do not become women, nor do transgendered women become men

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hockeybub89 09/05/17 12:53:52 PM #51:	"Finally an 'expert' that confirms my fee fees!" --- http://card.psnprofiles.com/1/NIR_Hockey.png http://www.last.fm/user/hockeybub89/ <cite>hockeybub89 posted [p:886064834] in transgende... [t:75743578]...</cite> <quote>"Finally an 'expert' that confirms my fee fees!"</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
OctilIery 09/05/17 12:54:05 PM #52:	OrtegaTron posted... OctilIery posted... Let me guess, this is the same psychiatrist everyone keeps quoting despite being dismissed in his field because he has no experience working with transgendered patients? I mean, given the fact that he's misusing Gender Dysphoria, which is not the term for feeling of the opposite gender but the term for anxiety stemming from the feeling your body does not match your gender(an important distinction as not not all transgenders have GD, and that GD is treatable), it's safe to say we can write him off. Dr. McHugh, who was psychiatrist-in-chief at Johns Hopkins Hospital for 26 years, the medical institute that had initially pioneered sex-change surgery – and later ceased the practice Seems he has some experience, at least No, it doesn't. John Hopkins pioneered sex change surgery, but that doesn't mean he was involved in it - John Hopkins has lots of different medical fields. He has no authority in this subject. <cite>OctilIery posted [p:886064844] in transgende... [t:75743578]...</cite> <quote><cite>OrtegaTron posted...</cite> <quote><cite>OctilIery posted...</cite> <quote>Let me guess, this is the same psychiatrist everyone keeps quoting despite being dismissed in his field because he has no experience working with transgendered patients? I mean, given the fact that he's misusing Gender Dysphoria, which is not the term for feeling of the opposite gender but the term for anxiety stemming from the feeling your body does not match your gender(an important distinction as not not all transgenders have GD, and that GD is treatable), it's safe to say we can write him off.</quote> Dr. McHugh, who was psychiatrist-in-chief at Johns Hopkins Hospital for 26 years, the medical institute that had initially pioneered sex-change surgery – and later ceased the practice Seems he has some experience, at least</quote> No, it doesn't. John Hopkins pioneered sex change surgery, but that doesn't mean he was involved in it - John Hopkins has lots of different medical fields. He has no authority in this subject.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
COVxy 09/05/17 12:54:32 PM #53:	darkjedilink posted... I take from them the idea that there is a brain chemistry issue to be studied with the idea of finding a treatment or cure for the underlying chemical imbalance - not that we, as a society, need to feed delusions caused by such. It's not a brain chemistry or 'chemical imbalance', and the fact that you suggest that these articles suggest as much tells me that you didn't actually read them (which, btw, is not surprising in the least). --- =E[(x-E[x])(y-E[y])] <cite>COVxy posted [p:886064867] in transgende... [t:75743578]...</cite> <quote><cite>darkjedilink posted...</cite> <quote>I take from them the idea that there is a brain chemistry issue to be studied with the idea of finding a treatment or cure for the underlying chemical imbalance - not that we, as a society, need to feed delusions caused by such. </quote> It's not a brain chemistry or 'chemical imbalance', and the fact that you suggest that these articles suggest as much tells me that you didn't actually read them (which, btw, is not surprising in the least).</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
The Admiral 09/05/17 12:55:16 PM #54:	OctilIery posted... He has no authority in this subject. > 26 years of experience > "No authority" Octillery post --- - The Admiral <cite>The Admiral posted [p:886064905] in transgende... [t:75743578]...</cite> <quote><cite>OctilIery posted...</cite> <quote>He has no authority in this subject. </quote> > 26 years of experience > "No authority" Octillery post</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
GiftedACIII 09/05/17 12:55:51 PM #55:	Terra-enforcer posted... It was considered to officially be a mental disorder for decades for a reason. darkjedilink posted... COVxy posted... darkjedilink posted... Then present some. It wouldn't take you much to google if you'd actually want to educate yourself, there are may articles regarding sexual dimorphism and the brain meant for laymen. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/his-brain-her-brain-2012-10-23/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/is-there-something-unique-about-the-transgender-brain/ http://www.brainfacts.org/Brain-Basics/Neuroanatomy/Articles/2014/His-and-Hers-Sex-Differences-in-the-Brain (I imagine you might find yourself stuck on the wording about uniqueness of the transgender brain, but it's kind of a red herring. The evidence suggests something has gone wrong during the traditional development of sexually dimorphic characteristics, and this is likely related to the pervasive claim of perceived identity) Scientific American is a pretty good source for these things, science being presented in an accurate but digestible form. (Edit, added another link to brainfacts.org, mainly because when closing my google search tabs I noticed the link, and wanted to point that website out to you. It's run by SfN, and also provides some very accurate and digestible information) I've read them all a few times, and have yet to come away with this idea that they contradict the OP. I take from them the idea that there is a brain chemistry issue to be studied with the idea of finding a treatment or cure for the underlying chemical imbalance - not that we, as a society, need to feed delusions caused by such. Same stuff was said for homosexuality. The obvious answer is that who a person is is their brain, not their body. --- </topic> <cite>GiftedACIII posted [p:886064934] in transgende... [t:75743578]...</cite> <quote><cite>Terra-enforcer posted...</cite> <quote>It was considered to officially be a mental disorder for decades for a reason.</quote> <cite>darkjedilink posted...</cite> <quote><cite>COVxy posted...</cite> <quote><cite>darkjedilink posted...</cite> <quote>Then present some. </quote> It wouldn't take you much to google if you'd actually want to educate yourself, there are may articles regarding sexual dimorphism and the brain meant for laymen. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/his-brain-her-brain-2012-10-23/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/is-there-something-unique-about-the-transgender-brain/ http://www.brainfacts.org/Brain-Basics/Neuroanatomy/Articles/2014/His-and-Hers-Sex-Differences-in-the-Brain (I imagine you might find yourself stuck on the wording about uniqueness of the transgender brain, but it's kind of a red herring. The evidence suggests something has gone wrong during the traditional development of sexually dimorphic characteristics, and this is likely related to the pervasive claim of perceived identity) Scientific American is a pretty good source for these things, science being presented in an accurate but digestible form. (Edit, added another link to brainfacts.org, mainly because when closing my google search tabs I noticed the link, and wanted to point that website out to you. It's run by SfN, and also provides some very accurate and digestible information)</quote> I've read them all a few times, and have yet to come away with this idea that they contradict the OP. I take from them the idea that there is a brain chemistry issue to be studied with the idea of finding a treatment or cure for the underlying chemical imbalance - not that we, as a society, need to feed delusions caused by such.</quote> Same stuff was said for homosexuality. The obvious answer is that who a person is is their brain, not their body.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
OctilIery 09/05/17 12:56:21 PM #56:	The Admiral posted... OctilIery posted... He has no authority in this subject. > 26 years of experience > "No authority" Octillery post 26 years of experience, but not with transgender patients. <cite>OctilIery posted [p:886064964] in transgende... [t:75743578]...</cite> <quote><cite>The Admiral posted...</cite> <quote><cite>OctilIery posted...</cite> <quote>He has no authority in this subject. </quote> > 26 years of experience > "No authority" Octillery post</quote> 26 years of experience, but not with transgender patients.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
darkjedilink 09/05/17 12:56:52 PM #57:	COVxy posted... darkjedilink posted... I take from them the idea that there is a brain chemistry issue to be studied with the idea of finding a treatment or cure for the underlying chemical imbalance - not that we, as a society, need to feed delusions caused by such. It's not a brain chemistry or 'chemical imbalance', and the fact that you suggest that these articles suggest as much tells me that you didn't actually read them. They mention how the brain doesn't form properly through maturity - how else should it be taken? --- 'It's okay that those gangbangers stole all my personal belongings and cash at gunpoint, cuz they're building a rec center!' - OneTimeBen <cite>darkjedilink posted [p:886064996] in transgende... [t:75743578]...</cite> <quote><cite>COVxy posted...</cite> <quote><cite>darkjedilink posted...</cite> <quote>I take from them the idea that there is a brain chemistry issue to be studied with the idea of finding a treatment or cure for the underlying chemical imbalance - not that we, as a society, need to feed delusions caused by such. </quote> It's not a brain chemistry or 'chemical imbalance', and the fact that you suggest that these articles suggest as much tells me that you didn't actually read them.</quote> They mention how the brain doesn't form properly through maturity - how else should it be taken?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
COVxy 09/05/17 12:59:09 PM #58:	darkjedilink posted... They mention how the brain doesn't form properly through maturity - how else should it be taken? Organizational, structural in nature. These organizational changes are essentially 'hard-wired'. --- =E[(x-E[x])(y-E[y])] <cite>COVxy posted [p:886065141] in transgende... [t:75743578]...</cite> <quote><cite>darkjedilink posted...</cite> <quote>They mention how the brain doesn't form properly through maturity - how else should it be taken? </quote> Organizational, structural in nature. These organizational changes are essentially 'hard-wired'.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
thelovefist 09/05/17 1:04:40 PM #59:	The Admiral posted... I think most of us realize they don't actually become the opposite sex. A transwoman will never be the same as a natural-born woman. That's not an excuse to treat them poorly or anything, but it's a biological fact. @gunplagirl believes a transwoman is a biological woman. --- N/A <cite>thelovefist posted [p:886065448] in transgende... [t:75743578]...</cite> <quote><cite>The Admiral posted...</cite> <quote>I think most of us realize they don't actually become the opposite sex. A transwoman will never be the same as a natural-born woman. That's not an excuse to treat them poorly or anything, but it's a biological fact.</quote> @gunplagirl believes a transwoman is a biological woman.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Sheva7Chenk00 09/05/17 1:18:28 PM #60:	From a clinical perspective, whether the patient is actually of the gender that they claim is largely irrelevant. The aim of the therapy, due to our failure to adequately treat the idea itself , is to make the world conform to it. This often reinforced notion that a patient can change their genders is a narrative meant to optimise them socially, with the aim of stabilising them psychologically. It's a form of deception that we hope can ease their suffering. --- Paolo ale! Paolo Maldini! Paolo ale! Paolo Maldini <cite>Sheva7Chenk00 posted [p:886066238] in transgende... [t:75743578]...</cite> <quote>From a clinical perspective, whether the patient is actually of the gender that they claim is largely irrelevant. The aim of the therapy, due to our failure to adequately treat the idea itself , is to make the world conform to it. This often reinforced notion that a patient can change their genders is a narrative meant to optimise them socially, with the aim of stabilising them psychologically. It's a form of deception that we hope can ease their suffering.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
DoomSwell 09/05/17 1:35:08 PM #61:	I think the real problem is only a fraction of people who think they are transgender, are actually transgender. The rest are just confused and have mental disorders like the OP says. Neither case is anything to be discriminated against or ashamed of, but there needs to be a serious effort to separate the two rather than misdiagnose the ones that will regret surgery. --- http://www.backloggery.com/doomswell <cite>DoomSwell posted [p:886067104] in transgende... [t:75743578]...</cite> <quote>I think the real problem is only a fraction of people who think they are transgender, are actually transgender. The rest are just confused and have mental disorders like the OP says. Neither case is anything to be discriminated against or ashamed of, but there needs to be a serious effort to separate the two rather than misdiagnose the ones that will regret surgery.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
GiftedACIII 09/05/17 1:36:47 PM #62:	DoomSwell posted... I think the real problem is only a fraction of people who think they are transgender, are actually transgender. The rest are just confused and have mental disorders like the OP says. Neither case is anything to be discriminated against or ashamed of, but there needs to be a serious effort to separate the two rather than misdiagnose the ones that will regret surgery. I do believe there is a slight case of this too though, Far too many people who believe gender is just a type of clothing you can change depending on what's fashionable at the moment --- </topic> <cite>GiftedACIII posted [p:886067200] in transgende... [t:75743578]...</cite> <quote><cite>DoomSwell posted...</cite> <quote>I think the real problem is only a fraction of people who think they are transgender, are actually transgender. The rest are just confused and have mental disorders like the OP says. Neither case is anything to be discriminated against or ashamed of, but there needs to be a serious effort to separate the two rather than misdiagnose the ones that will regret surgery.</quote> I do believe there is a slight case of this too though, Far too many people who believe gender is just a type of clothing you can change depending on what's fashionable at the moment</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Sylph 09/05/17 1:39:45 PM #63:	I don't suppose you want to hear that any transition is a multi-year process with most places gatekeeping the processes behind up to two years of therapy visits, do you? Hardly a thing you just change at a whim. --- ZSB: We look so much better in a dress than you. I wouldn't mind being alone if I could stand my own company. <cite>Sylph posted [p:886067357] in transgende... [t:75743578]...</cite> <quote>I don't suppose you want to hear that any transition is a multi-year process with most places gatekeeping the processes behind up to two years of therapy visits, do you? Hardly a thing you just change at a whim.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Soviet_Poland 09/05/17 1:42:22 PM #64:	darkjedilink posted... They mention how the brain doesn't form properly through maturity - how else should it be taken? If it helps you understand, it's more anatomic than physiologic. That's really simplifying it though. --- "He has two neurons held together by a spirochete." <cite>Soviet_Poland posted [p:886067505] in transgende... [t:75743578]...</cite> <quote><cite>darkjedilink posted...</cite> <quote>They mention how the brain doesn't form properly through maturity - how else should it be taken?</quote> If it helps you understand, it's more anatomic than physiologic. That's really simplifying it though.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
DoomSwell 09/05/17 1:43:25 PM #65:	Sylph posted... I don't suppose you want to hear that any transition is a multi-year process with most places gatekeeping the processes behind up to two years of therapy visits, do you? Hardly a thing you just change at a whim. Already know that, but I also know there's a high rate of regret or suicide afterwards as well. --- http://www.backloggery.com/doomswell <cite>DoomSwell posted [p:886067572] in transgende... [t:75743578]...</cite> <quote><cite>Sylph posted...</cite> <quote>I don't suppose you want to hear that any transition is a multi-year process with most places gatekeeping the processes behind up to two years of therapy visits, do you? Hardly a thing you just change at a whim.</quote> Already know that, but I also know there's a high rate of regret or suicide afterwards as well.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
COVxy 09/05/17 1:44:21 PM #66:	DoomSwell posted... I also know there's a high rate of regret I don't think I've seen any evidence to suggest as much. Mostly the opposite. --- =E[(x-E[x])(y-E[y])] <cite>COVxy posted [p:886067631] in transgende... [t:75743578]...</cite> <quote><cite>DoomSwell posted...</cite> <quote> I also know there's a high rate of regret</quote> I don't think I've seen any evidence to suggest as much. Mostly the opposite.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
OpheliaAdenade 09/05/17 1:46:23 PM #67:	I know of people who have "detransitioned" after the fact. :v They have videos on youtube about it. --- http://imgur.com/Q6Qj55q <cite>OpheliaAdenade posted [p:886067743] in transgende... [t:75743578]...</cite> <quote>I know of people who have "detransitioned" after the fact. :v They have videos on youtube about it.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Soviet_Poland 09/05/17 1:46:42 PM #68:	DoomSwell posted... I think the real problem is only a fraction of people who think they are transgender, are actually transgender. The rest are just confused and have mental disorders like the OP says. Neither case is anything to be discriminated against or ashamed of, but there needs to be a serious effort to separate the two rather than misdiagnose the ones that will regret surgery. There already are strict criteria as to who is a candidate for surgery. People who failed to improve after hormone replacement therapy after 1 year. Mental status examinations. Behavioral specialists have always been the "gatekeepers" with respect to these surgeries. It's a fallacy to presume society is ignoring this and letting people walk into a clinic like a McDonald's and walk out with a surgery. Yes, some people end up regretting surgery, but they were informed of limitations and had a long time to manage expectations prior to getting the green light for the procedure. At least that's the standard of care and it's pretty pointless to treat the exceptions as the rule. --- "He has two neurons held together by a spirochete." <cite>Soviet_Poland posted [p:886067766] in transgende... [t:75743578]...</cite> <quote><cite>DoomSwell posted...</cite> <quote>I think the real problem is only a fraction of people who think they are transgender, are actually transgender. The rest are just confused and have mental disorders like the OP says. Neither case is anything to be discriminated against or ashamed of, but there needs to be a serious effort to separate the two rather than misdiagnose the ones that will regret surgery.</quote> There already are strict criteria as to who is a candidate for surgery. People who failed to improve after hormone replacement therapy after 1 year. Mental status examinations. Behavioral specialists have always been the "gatekeepers" with respect to these surgeries. It's a fallacy to presume society is ignoring this and letting people walk into a clinic like a McDonald's and walk out with a surgery. Yes, some people end up regretting surgery, but they were informed of limitations and had a long time to manage expectations prior to getting the green light for the procedure. At least that's the standard of care and it's pretty pointless to treat the exceptions as the rule.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Sir Will 09/05/17 1:49:07 PM #69:	The Admiral posted... OctilIery posted... He has no authority in this subject. > 26 years of UNRELATED experience > "No authority" Octillery post Yes, no experience. DoomSwell posted... but I also know there's a high rate of regret or suicide afterwards as well. Proof. Source. Now. I've heard this thrown around a few times here and never with proof. --- River Song: Well, I was off to this gay gypsy bar mitzvah for the disabled when I thought 'Gosh, the Third Reich's a bit rubbish, I think i'll kill the Fuhrer' <cite>Sir Will posted [p:886067902] in transgende... [t:75743578]...</cite> <quote><cite>The Admiral posted...</cite> <quote><cite>OctilIery posted...</cite> <quote>He has no authority in this subject. </quote> > 26 years of UNRELATED experience > "No authority" Octillery post</quote> Yes, no experience. <cite>DoomSwell posted...</cite> <quote>but I also know there's a high rate of regret or suicide afterwards as well.</quote> Proof. Source. Now. I've heard this thrown around a few times here and never with proof.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Soviet_Poland 09/05/17 1:49:51 PM #70:	DoomSwell posted... Already know that, but I also know there's a high rate of regret or suicide afterwards as well. A systematic review and meta-analysis (strongest level of evidence) says otherwise: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19473181 Or, rather a more nuanced interpretation is that there is very little data, but the data that is there suggests it helps. You don't "know" there is a higher rate of regret, you're assuming there is a high level regret...based off of? What exactly? --- "He has two neurons held together by a spirochete." <cite>Soviet_Poland posted [p:886067935] in transgende... [t:75743578]...</cite> <quote><cite>DoomSwell posted...</cite> <quote>Already know that, but I also know there's a high rate of regret or suicide afterwards as well.</quote> A systematic review and meta-analysis (strongest level of evidence) says otherwise: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19473181 Or, rather a more nuanced interpretation is that there is very little data, but the data that is there suggests it helps. You don't "know" there is a higher rate of regret, you're assuming there is a high level regret...based off of? What exactly?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
DoomSwell 09/05/17 1:50:26 PM #71:	COVxy posted... I don't think I've seen any evidence to suggest as much. http://www.sexchangeregret.com/ Literately [InsertTopicHere]dotCom --- http://www.backloggery.com/doomswell <cite>DoomSwell posted [p:886067966] in transgende... [t:75743578]...</cite> <quote><cite>COVxy posted...</cite> <quote>I don't think I've seen any evidence to suggest as much.</quote> http://www.sexchangeregret.com/ Literately [InsertTopicHere]dotCom</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
OctilIery 09/05/17 1:51:22 PM #72:	DoomSwell posted... COVxy posted... I don't think I've seen any evidence to suggest as much. http://www.sexchangeregret.com/ Literately [InsertTopicHere]dotCom Maybe try posting actual sources. <cite>OctilIery posted [p:886068009] in transgende... [t:75743578]...</cite> <quote><cite>DoomSwell posted...</cite> <quote><cite>COVxy posted...</cite> <quote>I don't think I've seen any evidence to suggest as much.</quote> http://www.sexchangeregret.com/ Literately [InsertTopicHere]dotCom</quote> Maybe try posting actual sources.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
ImTheMacheteGuy 09/05/17 1:52:03 PM #73:	CNS news is a fake news site run by fundamentalist christians --- Place-holder sig because new phone and old sigs not saved :/ <cite>ImTheMacheteGuy posted [p:886068044] in transgende... [t:75743578]...</cite> <quote>CNS news is a fake news site run by fundamentalist christians</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
hockeybub89 09/05/17 1:54:35 PM #74:	Soviet_Poland posted... DoomSwell posted... Already know that, but I also know there's a high rate of regret or suicide afterwards as well. A systematic review and meta-analysis (strongest level of evidence) says otherwise: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19473181 Or, rather a more nuanced interpretation is that there is very little data, but the data that is there suggests it helps. You don't "know" there is a higher rate of regret, you're assuming there is a high level regret...based off of? What exactly? Well when you know nothing of how transition works and are one of the jokers in this topic who thinks most people treat it like changing socks, you tend to make silly assumptions based off those silly beliefs. --- http://card.psnprofiles.com/1/NIR_Hockey.png http://www.last.fm/user/hockeybub89/ <cite>hockeybub89 posted [p:886068179] in transgende... [t:75743578]...</cite> <quote><cite>Soviet_Poland posted...</cite> <quote><cite>DoomSwell posted...</cite> <quote>Already know that, but I also know there's a high rate of regret or suicide afterwards as well.</quote> A systematic review and meta-analysis (strongest level of evidence) says otherwise: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19473181 Or, rather a more nuanced interpretation is that there is very little data, but the data that is there suggests it helps. You don't "know" there is a higher rate of regret, you're assuming there is a high level regret...based off of? What exactly?</quote> Well when you know nothing of how transition works and are one of the jokers in this topic who thinks most people treat it like changing socks, you tend to make silly assumptions based off those silly beliefs.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Soviet_Poland 09/05/17 1:54:36 PM #75:	DoomSwell posted... COVxy posted... I don't think I've seen any evidence to suggest as much. http://www.sexchangeregret.com/ Literately [InsertTopicHere]dotCom You just referenced anecdote. Need I remind you that anecdote is the lowest form of evidence? The hierarchy goes: case study - prospective study - random clinical trial/double-blind placebo-controlled - meta-analysis/systematic review Any single individual study will have limitations in its methodology and study design. Meta-analysis corrects this by "brute-forcing" statistical analysis to try and tease out the signal from the noise...so to speak, because it combines the findings of many studies and can more readily discount outliers. That's a really simplified explanation of it, but the point here is not all evidence is equal. --- "He has two neurons held together by a spirochete." <cite>Soviet_Poland posted [p:886068180] in transgende... [t:75743578]...</cite> <quote><cite>DoomSwell posted...</cite> <quote><cite>COVxy posted...</cite> <quote>I don't think I've seen any evidence to suggest as much.</quote> http://www.sexchangeregret.com/ Literately [InsertTopicHere]dotCom</quote> You just referenced anecdote. Need I remind you that anecdote is the lowest form of evidence? The hierarchy goes: case study - prospective study - random clinical trial/double-blind placebo-controlled - meta-analysis/systematic review Any single individual study will have limitations in its methodology and study design. Meta-analysis corrects this by "brute-forcing" statistical analysis to try and tease out the signal from the noise...so to speak, because it combines the findings of many studies and can more readily discount outliers. That's a really simplified explanation of it, but the point here is not all evidence is equal.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Terra-enforcer 09/05/17 2:02:24 PM #76:	thelovefist posted... The Admiral posted... I think most of us realize they don't actually become the opposite sex. A transwoman will never be the same as a natural-born woman. That's not an excuse to treat them poorly or anything, but it's a biological fact. @gunplagirl believes a transwoman is a biological woman. EDIT: I'm sorry, that was rude, but come on. Disillusioning yourself changes nothing. It's like living in perpetual denial. You're better off accepting the truth than living like that. No matter how much surgery is done, there is a distinct difference between a natural born female and a male who took hormones to emulate females. --- Nintendo Switch Friend Code: SW-3032-7898-9500 http://psnprofiles.com/Terraforce777 http://miiverse.nintendo.net/users/Rayquaza487 <cite>Terra-enforcer posted [p:886068560] in transgende... [t:75743578]...</cite> <quote><cite>thelovefist posted...</cite> <quote><cite>The Admiral posted...</cite> <quote>I think most of us realize they don't actually become the opposite sex. A transwoman will never be the same as a natural-born woman. That's not an excuse to treat them poorly or anything, but it's a biological fact.</quote> @gunplagirl believes a transwoman is a biological woman.</quote> EDIT: I'm sorry, that was rude, but come on. Disillusioning yourself changes nothing. It's like living in perpetual denial. You're better off accepting the truth than living like that. No matter how much surgery is done, there is a distinct difference between a natural born female and a male who took hormones to emulate females.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Sir Will 09/05/17 2:05:12 PM #77:	DoomSwell posted... COVxy posted... I don't think I've seen any evidence to suggest as much. http://www.sexchangeregret.com/ Literately [InsertTopicHere]dotCom Literally not proof. --- River Song: Well, I was off to this gay gypsy bar mitzvah for the disabled when I thought 'Gosh, the Third Reich's a bit rubbish, I think i'll kill the Fuhrer' <cite>Sir Will posted [p:886068693] in transgende... [t:75743578]...</cite> <quote><cite>DoomSwell posted...</cite> <quote><cite>COVxy posted...</cite> <quote>I don't think I've seen any evidence to suggest as much.</quote> http://www.sexchangeregret.com/ Literately [InsertTopicHere]dotCom</quote> Literally not proof.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Thrillwell 09/05/17 2:32:56 PM #78:	Nazanir posted... I'm opening a popcorn stand, anyone want some? I will take 2 nicely shaven bags... >_> <_< oh, of popcorn --- Novus Ordo Seclorum <cite>Thrillwell posted [p:886070280] in transgende... [t:75743578]...</cite> <quote><cite>Nazanir posted...</cite> <quote>I'm opening a popcorn stand, anyone want some?</quote> I will take 2 nicely shaven bags... >_> <_< oh, of popcorn</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Howl 09/05/17 4:00:06 PM #79:	COVxy posted... darkjedilink posted... Then present some. It wouldn't take you much to google if you'd actually want to educate yourself, there are may articles regarding sexual dimorphism and the brain meant for laymen. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/his-brain-her-brain-2012-10-23/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/is-there-something-unique-about-the-transgender-brain/ http://www.brainfacts.org/Brain-Basics/Neuroanatomy/Articles/2014/His-and-Hers-Sex-Differences-in-the-Brain (I imagine you might find yourself stuck on the wording about uniqueness of the transgender brain, but it's kind of a red herring. The evidence suggests something has gone wrong during the traditional development of sexually dimorphic characteristics, and this is likely related to the pervasive claim of perceived identity) Scientific American is a pretty good source for these things, science being presented in an accurate but digestible form. (Edit, added another link to brainfacts.org, mainly because when closing my google search tabs I noticed the link, and wanted to point that website out to you. It's run by SfN, and also provides some very accurate and digestible information) So the argument you've made only further proves that gender is a biological construct and not a social one at all. --- Posted with GameRaven 3.2.2 <cite>Howl posted [p:886075302] in transgende... [t:75743578]...</cite> <quote><cite>COVxy posted...</cite> <quote><cite>darkjedilink posted...</cite> <quote> Then present some. </quote> It wouldn't take you much to google if you'd actually want to educate yourself, there are may articles regarding sexual dimorphism and the brain meant for laymen. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/his-brain-her-brain-2012-10-23/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/is-there-something-unique-about-the-transgender-brain/ http://www.brainfacts.org/Brain-Basics/Neuroanatomy/Articles/2014/His-and-Hers-Sex-Differences-in-the-Brain (I imagine you might find yourself stuck on the wording about uniqueness of the transgender brain, but it's kind of a red herring. The evidence suggests something has gone wrong during the traditional development of sexually dimorphic characteristics, and this is likely related to the pervasive claim of perceived identity) Scientific American is a pretty good source for these things, science being presented in an accurate but digestible form. (Edit, added another link to brainfacts.org, mainly because when closing my google search tabs I noticed the link, and wanted to point that website out to you. It's run by SfN, and also provides some very accurate and digestible information)</quote> So the argument you've made only further proves that gender is a biological construct and not a social one at all.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
ChaoticKnuckles 09/05/17 4:13:54 PM #80:	shockthemonkey posted... It's like the Climate Change debate. Congrats on finding someone who disagrees with 97% of data. My thoughts exactly. If you look hard enough you can probably also find a few dentists who will tell you that brushing twice a day instead of once has no substantial benefits. Guess we should disregard the thousands of others that say it's absolutely best to brush at least twice a day and not only one time then. --- You look EXTREMELY immature when you announce that you're about to ignore someone. No one cares, including the person about to be ignored. Just FYI. <cite>ChaoticKnuckles posted [p:886076090] in transgende... [t:75743578]...</cite> <quote><cite>shockthemonkey posted...</cite> <quote>It's like the Climate Change debate. Congrats on finding someone who disagrees with 97% of data.</quote> My thoughts exactly. If you look hard enough you can probably also find a few dentists who will tell you that brushing twice a day instead of once has no substantial benefits. Guess we should disregard the thousands of others that say it's absolutely best to brush at least twice a day and not only one time then.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
COVxy 09/05/17 4:25:24 PM #81:	Howl posted... So the argument you've made only further proves that gender is a biological construct and not a social one at all. I believe gender to be biological in nature, yes. That doesn't contradict what I think you think it contradicts. --- =E[(x-E[x])(y-E[y])] <cite>COVxy posted [p:886076819] in transgende... [t:75743578]...</cite> <quote><cite>Howl posted...</cite> <quote>So the argument you've made only further proves that gender is a biological construct and not a social one at all. </quote> I believe gender to be biological in nature, yes. That doesn't contradict what I think you think it contradicts.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Newhopes 09/05/17 4:29:19 PM #83:	Transgender is basically just cosmetic surgery. <cite>Newhopes posted [p:886077044] in transgende... [t:75743578]...</cite> <quote>Transgender is basically just cosmetic surgery.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Howl 09/05/17 4:34:55 PM #84:	shockthemonkey posted... Gender is biological. #triggered No but seriously I've seen the "gender is a social construct" argument made here and all over the Internet repeatedly. You may be the first to correctly state that that way. --- Posted with GameRaven 3.2.2 <cite>Howl posted [p:886077399] in transgende... [t:75743578]...</cite> <quote><cite>shockthemonkey posted...</cite> <quote>Gender is biological.</quote> #triggered No but seriously I've seen the "gender is a social construct" argument made here and all over the Internet repeatedly. You may be the first to correctly state that that way.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
thanosibe 09/05/17 4:51:00 PM #85:	shockthemonkey posted... Howl posted... COVxy posted... darkjedilink posted... Then present some. It wouldn't take you much to google if you'd actually want to educate yourself, there are may articles regarding sexual dimorphism and the brain meant for laymen. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/his-brain-her-brain-2012-10-23/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/is-there-something-unique-about-the-transgender-brain/ http://www.brainfacts.org/Brain-Basics/Neuroanatomy/Articles/2014/His-and-Hers-Sex-Differences-in-the-Brain (I imagine you might find yourself stuck on the wording about uniqueness of the transgender brain, but it's kind of a red herring. The evidence suggests something has gone wrong during the traditional development of sexually dimorphic characteristics, and this is likely related to the pervasive claim of perceived identity) Scientific American is a pretty good source for these things, science being presented in an accurate but digestible form. (Edit, added another link to brainfacts.org, mainly because when closing my google search tabs I noticed the link, and wanted to point that website out to you. It's run by SfN, and also provides some very accurate and digestible information) So the argument you've made only further proves that gender is a biological construct and not a social one at all. Gender is biological. Gender roles are social. Your gender is what you are born. What you subscribe to in that gender and based on how well you want to fit into society is yes a construct. These two aspects are very often mistaken as mutually exclusive. --- I think I need a drink. Almost everybody does only they don't know it. -- Charles Bukowski <cite>thanosibe posted [p:886078456] in transgende... [t:75743578]...</cite> <quote><cite>shockthemonkey posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Howl posted...</cite> <quote><cite>COVxy posted...</cite> <quote><cite>darkjedilink posted...</cite> <quote> Then present some. </quote> It wouldn't take you much to google if you'd actually want to educate yourself, there are may articles regarding sexual dimorphism and the brain meant for laymen. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/his-brain-her-brain-2012-10-23/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/is-there-something-unique-about-the-transgender-brain/ http://www.brainfacts.org/Brain-Basics/Neuroanatomy/Articles/2014/His-and-Hers-Sex-Differences-in-the-Brain (I imagine you might find yourself stuck on the wording about uniqueness of the transgender brain, but it's kind of a red herring. The evidence suggests something has gone wrong during the traditional development of sexually dimorphic characteristics, and this is likely related to the pervasive claim of perceived identity) Scientific American is a pretty good source for these things, science being presented in an accurate but digestible form. (Edit, added another link to brainfacts.org, mainly because when closing my google search tabs I noticed the link, and wanted to point that website out to you. It's run by SfN, and also provides some very accurate and digestible information)</quote> So the argument you've made only further proves that gender is a biological construct and not a social one at all.</quote> Gender is biological. Gender roles are social.</quote>Your gender is what you are born. What you subscribe to in that gender and based on how well you want to fit into society is yes a construct. These two aspects are very often mistaken as mutually exclusive.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
VAJoiner 09/05/17 5:06:35 PM #86:	This issue deserves medical research more than blind acceptance. The whole "legit vs mental illness" thing shouldn't be dismissed. Medicine feels advanced, but I'm sure medieval barbers thought they had it all figured out too <cite>VAJoiner posted [p:886079442] in transgende... [t:75743578]...</cite> <quote>This issue deserves medical research more than blind acceptance. The whole "legit vs mental illness" thing shouldn't be dismissed. Medicine feels advanced, but I'm sure medieval barbers thought they had it all figured out too</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
#87	Post #87 was unavailable or deleted.
Soviet_Poland 09/05/17 5:46:52 PM #88:	VAJoiner posted... This issue deserves medical research more than blind acceptance. The whole "legit vs mental illness" thing shouldn't be dismissed. Medicine feels advanced, but I'm sure medieval barbers thought they had it all figured out too The issue is getting medical research. Howl posted... #triggered No but seriously I've seen the "gender is a social construct" argument made here and all over the Internet repeatedly. You may be the first to correctly state that that way. I suggest you do some reading on the biopsychosocial model. Trying to argue this issue on an "either or" point of view is a red herring. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1466742/ --- "He has two neurons held together by a spirochete." <cite>Soviet_Poland posted [p:886081823] in transgende... [t:75743578]...</cite> <quote><cite>VAJoiner posted...</cite> <quote>This issue deserves medical research more than blind acceptance. The whole "legit vs mental illness" thing shouldn't be dismissed. Medicine feels advanced, but I'm sure medieval barbers thought they had it all figured out too</quote> The issue is getting medical research. <cite>Howl posted...</cite> <quote>#triggered No but seriously I've seen the "gender is a social construct" argument made here and all over the Internet repeatedly. You may be the first to correctly state that that way.</quote> I suggest you do some reading on the biopsychosocial model. Trying to argue this issue on an "either or" point of view is a red herring. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1466742/</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Current Events > transgendered men do not become women, nor do transgendered women become men (+) Yeah! (+)

Current Events > transgendered men do not become women, nor do transgendered women become men