Current Events > This should be the default for ALL restaurants

(+) Yeah! (+)

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But then the waiters will do a shitty job!!!!!!!!
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I personally don't give a fuck about tipping. As they say in there the prices reflect the higher wages. It's all the same people need to stfu

I agree, why waitresses and waiters were chosen to get this fucked in this country is beyond me. Of all the professions, why them?

No, you get paid like $2 am hour but maybe people will volunteer to give you more. What the Fuck is that?
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KiwiTerraRizing posted...

I agree, why waitresses and waiters were chosen to get this fucked in this country is beyond me. Of all the professions, why them?

No, you get paid like $2 am hour but maybe people will volunteer to give you more. What the Fuck is that?

My sister is a waitress and makes like 15+ dollars an hour from tips.

These people probably make 10-12 tops
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With a proper wage and that many beinfits the price hike on the food is gonna be pretty big.
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itachi15243 posted...

KiwiTerraRizing posted...

I agree, why waitresses and waiters were chosen to get this fucked in this country is beyond me. Of all the professions, why them?

No, you get paid like $2 am hour but maybe people will volunteer to give you more. What the Fuck is that?

My sister is a waitress and makes like 15+ dollars an hour from tips.

These people probably make 10-12 tops

Quick Google search says the restaurant is in San Fran. With the prices I'm seeing on the menu, they probably make more than 10-12/hour.
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Week long brunch? What is this indulgence! Who can stand it? This represents the complete moral breakdown of America!
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Even if it's not, I'm not gonna continuously give the diner I eat at every single day an extra $5 or $10. I mean, I eat there every day, isn't my patronage enough?
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itachi15243 posted...

KiwiTerraRizing posted...

I agree, why waitresses and waiters were chosen to get this fucked in this country is beyond me. Of all the professions, why them?

No, you get paid like $2 am hour but maybe people will volunteer to give you more. What the Fuck is that?

My sister is a waitress and makes like 15+ dollars an hour from tips.

These people probably make 10-12 tops

Clearly we can extrapolate your single example to everyone in the profession. Guess I was wrong.
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KiwiTerraRizing posted...

itachi15243 posted...

KiwiTerraRizing posted...

I agree, why waitresses and waiters were chosen to get this fucked in this country is beyond me. Of all the professions, why them?

No, you get paid like $2 am hour but maybe people will volunteer to give you more. What the Fuck is that?

My sister is a waitress and makes like 15+ dollars an hour from tips.

These people probably make 10-12 tops

Clearly we can extrapolate your single example to everyone in the profession. Guess I was wrong.

Yeah, that's exactly what I was doing.

I wasn't saying not all waitresses get fucked, or anything like that with a simple example of how that doesn't always happen
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itachi15243 posted...

KiwiTerraRizing posted...

itachi15243 posted...

KiwiTerraRizing posted...

I agree, why waitresses and waiters were chosen to get this fucked in this country is beyond me. Of all the professions, why them?

No, you get paid like $2 am hour but maybe people will volunteer to give you more. What the Fuck is that?

My sister is a waitress and makes like 15+ dollars an hour from tips.

These people probably make 10-12 tops

Clearly we can extrapolate your single example to everyone in the profession. Guess I was wrong.

Yeah, that's exactly what I was doing.

I wasn't saying not all waitresses get fucked, or anything like that with a simple example of how that doesn't always happen

Fair enough
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All restaurants should serve mac n cheese and chicken nuggets for the picky folk
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fenderbender321 posted...

That type of job might work for some servers, but probably half or more of all servers are only wanting to work part time and are looking to just bring in extra cash.

With tips I made about $20 an hour when I was a server. Sometimes more. I doubt restaurants would pay that kind of wage in a non tipping environment, so I certainly wouldn't work for one, so that's at least one damn good server they won't be able to hire

Tipping is voluntary. People are happy to tip their servers. Study after study has shown that people tip not due to social pressure, but because they enjoy it. It's a win win...and if you're poor, you can just tip less and it's not even a problem because people who have more money will make up for it. Not sure why anyone would ever be opposed to a voluntary system such as tipping.

If I knew my waiter was getting $20 an hour in tips already I wouldn't tip at all, ever.
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itachi15243 posted...

KiwiTerraRizing posted...

I agree, why waitresses and waiters were chosen to get this fucked in this country is beyond me. Of all the professions, why them?

No, you get paid like $2 am hour but maybe people will volunteer to give you more. What the Fuck is that?

My sister is a waitress and makes like 15+ dollars an hour from tips.

These people probably make 10-12 tops

>female

yeah obviously

KiwiTerraRizing posted...

I agree, why waitresses and waiters were chosen to get this fucked in this country is beyond me. Of all the professions, why them?

No, you get paid like $2 am hour but maybe people will volunteer to give you more. What the Fuck is that?

Waiters make much better money than most retail or other low level jobs because of tipping. I know a bartender that lives in SF pretty well working 3 nights a week.

My guess is that restaurant has bottom tier servers because anyone worth a damn would quit and get a much better paying tipped job or the menu is just extremely expensive to compensate.
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RedZaraki posted...

If I knew my waiter was getting $20 an hour in tips already I wouldn't tip at all, ever.

Why?
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lol americans defending their shitty tipping tradition.
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The Deadpool posted...

RedZaraki posted...

If I knew my waiter was getting $20 an hour in tips already I wouldn't tip at all, ever.

Why?

Because there is zero reason to do so and I guarantee you I worked harder to earn that money than these college kids do to walk a plate 20 feet across a dining hall.
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Uhh when I have to pay $9 for an egg nty
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RedZaraki posted...

Because there is zero reason to do so and I guarantee you I worked harder to earn that money than these college kids do to walk a plate 20 feet across a dining hall.

Imagine being this poor.
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It's that tipping picture from the front page of Reddit, isn't it?

Edit: Well, whaddya know.
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http://www.zaziesf.com/dinner-menu.html
This is why you're broke.

Anteaterking posted...

RedZaraki posted...

Because there is zero reason to do so and I guarantee you I worked harder to earn that money than these college kids do to walk a plate 20 feet across a dining hall.

Imagine being this poor.

You gave me the option to keep my money. I choose to keep my money. Why be mad about it?

If you don't like it, make the tip mandatory.
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Questionmarktarius posted...

http://www.zaziesf.com/dinner-menu.html
This is why you're broke.

lol they just put the money you would have spent on a tip into the cost of the plates. gj

btw SFs minimum wage is $14 an hour.
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KiwiTerraRizing posted...

I agree, why waitresses and waiters were chosen to get this fucked in this country is beyond me. Of all the professions, why them?

No, you get paid like $2 am hour but maybe people will volunteer to give you more. What the Fuck is that?

It's funny, I see people bitching all the time about one reason to stop tipping is because it's unfair to servers

Y'all are fucking deluded. I work in a restaurant and every server in the building makes around $16/hour on average. They make double what is the starting pay for cooks, and that's not even counting the $2.13/hour they get. And here's the thing: If this DOESN'T happen, servers quickly bail on a restaurant and go somewhere that they DO make good money. They KNOW they have a good deal. I work with a guy who has a BA in Mechanical Engineering. He stays on as a server because it pays more than an engineering job in the area we live in.
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fenderbender321 posted...

That type of job might work for some servers, but probably half or more of all servers are only wanting to work part time and are looking to just bring in extra cash.

With tips I made about $20 an hour when I was a server. Sometimes more. I doubt restaurants would pay that kind of wage in a non tipping environment, so I certainly wouldn't work for one, so that's at least one damn good server they won't be able to hire

Tipping is voluntary. People are happy to tip their servers. Study after study has shown that people tip not due to social pressure, but because they enjoy it. It's a win win...and if you're poor, you can just tip less and it's not even a problem because people who have more money will make up for it. Not sure why anyone would ever be opposed to a voluntary system such as tipping.

My point exactly, thanks for giving us a real example of the principle at work
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I'd much rather it be included in the price like this also. Been to a few restaurants with this model.
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Yes I agree that servers should be paid a living wage. I'm gonna tip until that becomes the norm.
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Questionmarktarius posted...

http://www.zaziesf.com/dinner-menu.html
This is why you're broke.

*Small Green Salad $7

Country Pork Chop $33

D.D.'s Mac & Cheese $9

Cuit de Chocolat Chaud $12
our signature "Baked Hot Chocolate" w/ golden marshmallows

Yeah, keep not tipping tho, you're totally saving money going to somewhere like this as opposed to adding $5 to your total bill
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Questionmarktarius posted...

http://www.zaziesf.com/dinner-menu.html
This is why you're broke.

Honestly, this place isn't even that expensive, especially considering you will not be tipping on top of the total. I was expecting to see entrees in the 50-100 range.
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Agreed. Tipping is stupid.
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fenderbender321 posted...

Yeah I'm really not understanding why people think tipping screws over servers. Tipping is the reason servers make good money, and the fact that it's voluntary allows people to fluctuate how much they tip according to their own values, financial status, and service received. Nobody loses when it comes to tipping.

I never met someone who worked for tips that was happy they worked for tips. And I saw firsthand for years what happens to employees when they don't make good tips.
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RedZaraki posted...

fenderbender321 posted...

That type of job might work for some servers, but probably half or more of all servers are only wanting to work part time and are looking to just bring in extra cash.

With tips I made about $20 an hour when I was a server. Sometimes more. I doubt restaurants would pay that kind of wage in a non tipping environment, so I certainly wouldn't work for one, so that's at least one damn good server they won't be able to hire

Tipping is voluntary. People are happy to tip their servers. Study after study has shown that people tip not due to social pressure, but because they enjoy it. It's a win win...and if you're poor, you can just tip less and it's not even a problem because people who have more money will make up for it. Not sure why anyone would ever be opposed to a voluntary system such as tipping.

If I knew my waiter was getting $20 an hour in tips already I wouldn't tip at all, ever.

Problem with this mentality is that if everyone thinks it, it won't happen.

Even after Uber introduced tipping, still no real change, why? "Oh, with the tipping feature he must get so many tips, I'm sure he doesn't need any from me!"
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Well I used to hate the concept of tipping, but if Admiral thinks it should be eliminated than it probably shouldn't since he's always wrong about everything

I never really get people who defend tipping as a construct. Like, there's something special about waitressing that means you have to tip them in particular, and not the chef who cooked the food or the person who delivered the meat to the restaurant or the butcher who cut up the meat or the winemaker who grew the crops?

Oh, I know what it is. All those people get paid livable wages for doing a job.

I understand why you tip, given the status quo. It's to make up for this unilateral unfairness. I just don't get why you defend tipping as a thing.
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pinky0926 posted...

I never really get people who defend tipping as a construct. Like, there's something special about waitressing that means you have to tip them in particular, and not the chef who cooked the food or the person who delivered the meat to the restaurant or the butcher who cut up the meat or the winemaker who grew the crops?

Oh, I know what it is. All those people get paid livable wages for doing a job.

I understand why you tip, given the status quo. It's to make up for this unilateral unfairness. I just don't get why you defend tipping as a thing.

Oh, I'm not saying its a good practice. I'm saying that the argument that its unfair to servers is dumb.

"Hey servers, would you rather work part time and make a ton of money dependent of the kindness of customers or work for a much lower hourly wage based on what the restaurant can afford to pay you?"

The only reason servers don't get benefits is BECAUSE its almost always part time work. That's unlikely to change even if the pay model changes to set hourly wages instead of a tipping model. Serving is an entry level position, there's no need to hire on full time people for it when you can just hire a ton of part timers and not pay benefits.
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hockeybub89 posted...

fenderbender321 posted...

Yeah I'm really not understanding why people think tipping screws over servers. Tipping is the reason servers make good money, and the fact that it's voluntary allows people to fluctuate how much they tip according to their own values, financial status, and service received. Nobody loses when it comes to tipping.

I never met someone who worked for tips that was happy they worked for tips. And I saw firsthand for years what happens to employees when they don't make good tips.

Have you met one person in the service industry?

They all love it.
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fire_bolt posted...

Oh, I'm not saying its a good practice. I'm saying that the argument that its unfair to servers is dumb.

You're right, that is a dumb argument. Servers typically make far more than they deserve given their training and skill set, and this comes at the expense of the kitchen staff. This is referred to as the front-of-the-house vs. back-of-the-house disparity, and it widens the more expensive the restaurant gets.

At top places, the wait staff make significantly more money than the kitchen staff, despite the chefs in the kitchen having gone to culinary school and usually having loans to repay. There are multiple stories about NYC chefs who apply to become waiters in their own restaurants because the pay is so much better. The kitchen staffs at restaurants also skews heavily minority (Hispanic, specifically), so this ends up creating a stark racial disparity in restaurant pay also.

I'm totally in support of eliminating tips and just instituting a blanket 15% or so increase, so that the kitchen staff can also receive a fair wage. They're much more deserving of it than the wait staff is, IMO.
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fenderbender321 posted...

I defend it because tipping allows me to make more money because it taps into the generosity of the average American. I guarantee you that no restaurant will pay their servers as much as they were making in tips if they switched to a no-tipping policy.

It also allows you to earn less money than minimum wage if someone doesn't tip, and puts customers into a "you better tip" at gunpoint mentality regardless of how good the service is. I hate feeling like I need to congratulate the service staff for doing a completely average job rather than just pay the agreed upon price to begin with.

I only feel like tipping when the service is truly exceptional, but then that's because I've grown up in cultures where tipping is treated in that way rather than as a way to allow service staff to survive. I really just don't get the idea of paying more than the pricetag for an arbitrary reason. And when you hear people say "uh ok so what's 20% of $87" you know the tipping is arbitrary and not based on any actual goodwill or quality of service.
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The Admiral posted...

fire_bolt posted...

Oh, I'm not saying its a good practice. I'm saying that the argument that its unfair to servers is dumb.

You're right, that is a dumb argument. Servers typically make far more than they deserve given their training and skill set, and this comes at the expense of the kitchen staff. This is referred to as the front-of-the-house vs. back-of-the-house disparity, and it widens the more expensive the restaurant gets.

At top places, the wait staff make significantly more money than the kitchen staff, despite the chefs in the kitchen having gone to culinary school and usually having loans to repay. There are multiple stories about NYC chefs who apply to become waiters in their own restaurants because the pay is so much better. The kitchen staffs at restaurants also skews heavily minority (Hispanic, specifically), so this ends up creating a stark racial disparity in restaurant pay also.

I'm totally in support of eliminating tips and just instituting a blanket 15% or so increase, so that the kitchen staff can also receive a fair wage. They're much more deserving of it than the wait staff is, IMO.

This is going to be an interesting conversation given fire_bolt is a chef, IIRC.
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pinky0926 posted...

The Admiral posted...

fire_bolt posted...

Oh, I'm not saying its a good practice. I'm saying that the argument that its unfair to servers is dumb.

You're right, that is a dumb argument. Servers typically make far more than they deserve given their training and skill set, and this comes at the expense of the kitchen staff. This is referred to as the front-of-the-house vs. back-of-the-house disparity, and it widens the more expensive the restaurant gets.

At top places, the wait staff make significantly more money than the kitchen staff, despite the chefs in the kitchen having gone to culinary school and usually having loans to repay. There are multiple stories about NYC chefs who apply to become waiters in their own restaurants because the pay is so much better. The kitchen staffs at restaurants also skews heavily minority (Hispanic, specifically), so this ends up creating a stark racial disparity in restaurant pay also.

I'm totally in support of eliminating tips and just instituting a blanket 15% or so increase, so that the kitchen staff can also receive a fair wage. They're much more deserving of it than the wait staff is, IMO.

This is going to be an interesting conversation given fire_bolt is a chef, IIRC.

I didn't know that, but I'm even more curious to hear his response now.
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