Current Events > So about Littlefinger *spoilers*

(+) Yeah! (+)

So whatever was his endgame? I feel like finding out that he actually had a plan would've been the biggest reveal in the show's history.
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Bang Sansa
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win da throne
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imo i think hes more of an opportunist than a schemer, he sits in the back observing events and seeing how he can play them to his advantage to improve his status & power. it's a lot more evident in the earlier seasons when he's in king's landing and you see more of him
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I was extremely disappointed. A character as cunning and clever as Littlefinger should have spent his last 10 episodes trying to make some huge political movement. Instead, he spent his last several episodes trying to trick little girls. I feel like GRRM had something much more grand planned for him.

Romulox28 posted...

imo i think hes more of an opportunist than a schemer, he sits in the back observing events and seeing how he can play them to his advantage to improve his status & power. it's a lot more evident in the earlier seasons when he's in king's landing and you see more of him

The most unbelievable thing about all of Littlefinger's moves is that they're blatantly obvious. Literally everyone knows that he's trying to seize whatever power he can get and no one trusts him nor have they ever trusted him. It doesn't make any sense that he's made it this far tbh.
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bump
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Ic3Bullet posted...

I was extremely disappointed. A character as cunning and clever as Littlefinger should have spent his last 10 episodes trying to make some huge political movement. Instead, he spent his last several episodes trying to trick little girls. I feel like GRRM had something much more grand planned for him.

guess we gotta wait for the books. seems like too complex on a character for a TV show

Romulox28 posted...

imo i think hes more of an opportunist than a schemer, he sits in the back observing events and seeing how he can play them to his advantage to improve his status & power. it's a lot more evident in the earlier seasons when he's in king's landing and you see more of him

This is correct

Like during tonight's episode Bran said it was Littlefinger's dagger that was used to kill him, but it wasn't. Littlefinger didn't know a thing about the dagger when Cat told him in King's Landing, he made it up on the spot because it helped his agenda.

The dagger belonged to King Robert, and Joffrey sent the assassin to Bran's room. And no, not out of hate. He heard Robert telling someone that killing Bran would be a mercy, so Joffrey sent the assassin to do it.
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Callixtus posted...

The most unbelievable thing about all of Littlefinger's moves is that they're blatantly obvious. Literally everyone knows that he's trying to seize whatever power he can get and no one trusts him nor have they ever trusted him. It doesn't make any sense that he's made it this far tbh.

He's the sort of person who you're never surprised when they betray you but somehow trust sometimes.
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He had no endgame in the show, since D&D couldn't provide coherent writing if their life depended on it. They decided to have him sell of Sansa to the Boltons and fuck around with the Starks, subsequently hedging all his chips on said Starks. Fucking genius.
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Ic3Bullet posted...

I was extremely disappointed. A character as cunning and clever as Littlefinger should have spent his last 10 episodes trying to make some huge political movement. Instead, he spent his last several episodes trying to trick little girls. I feel like GRRM had something much more grand planned for him.

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He stagnated because they had no chance of coming up with anything as interesting as the book material.
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Callixtus posted...

Romulox28 posted...

imo i think hes more of an opportunist than a schemer, he sits in the back observing events and seeing how he can play them to his advantage to improve his status & power. it's a lot more evident in the earlier seasons when he's in king's landing and you see more of him

The most unbelievable thing about all of Littlefinger's moves is that they're blatantly obvious. Literally everyone knows that he's trying to seize whatever power he can get and no one trusts him nor have they ever trusted him. It doesn't make any sense that he's made it this far tbh.

He explained that rather well in tha one scene where the two prostitutes were messing around with each other. He's explaining how to be a good prostitute, but it perfectly mirrors his approach toward people.

The short version is, they know what you are, so the key is to make them feel like they are the special one... the exception to the line of bullshit you feed to everyone else.

He went out like a chump. Very disappointing.

his endgame was made clear since season 1. marry himself into power and sit on the iron throne

he's been scheming and manipulating without consequence for the entire show. what he didn't count on was bran/three eyed raven and Sansa wisening up to his bs
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Cleo_II posted...

He went out like a chump. Very disappointing.

Yeah, it was a bit jarring seeing him literally on his knees begging for his life.

It doesn't make sense for a (supposed) master schemer like Littlefinger to ever end up in that situation (trapped in a room where there is no way he gets out alive)

Itachi157 posted...

Cleo_II posted...

He went out like a chump. Very disappointing.

Yeah, it was a bit jarring seeing him literally on his knees begging for his life.

It doesn't make sense for a (supposed) master schemer like Littlefinger to ever end up in that situation (trapped in a room where there is no way he gets out alive)

Pure Fan-service, by the Starks hands no less. As if they weren't shoving Arya 'badassery' down our throats hard enough.

The fact he got 'played' by the starks is the nail in the coffin for me in terms of beleivability, the entire Stark family barely have enough intelligence to manage the North without everyone dying.

I've been waiting for him to die since his name was Tommy Carcetti.
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Itachi157 posted...

Cleo_II posted...

He went out like a chump. Very disappointing.

Yeah, it was a bit jarring seeing him literally on his knees begging for his life.

It doesn't make sense for a (supposed) master schemer like Littlefinger to ever end up in that situation (trapped in a room where there is no way he gets out alive)

Yeah, it was pure lazy writing.

Itachi157 posted...

Cleo_II posted...

He went out like a chump. Very disappointing.

Yeah, it was a bit jarring seeing him literally on his knees begging for his life.

It doesn't make sense for a (supposed) master schemer like Littlefinger to ever end up in that situation (trapped in a room where there is no way he gets out alive)

That's the point. He's out of his element, he's been outmatched, his life hangs in the balance, and he doesn't properly know how to react to that.
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_Squirtle_ posted...

Bang Sansa

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It was bullshit how he went out.
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I mean, Littlefinger will die a pathetic death in the books as well, but he was a lot dumber in the show.
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UnholyMudcrab posted...

Itachi157 posted...

Cleo_II posted...

He went out like a chump. Very disappointing.

Yeah, it was a bit jarring seeing him literally on his knees begging for his life.

It doesn't make sense for a (supposed) master schemer like Littlefinger to ever end up in that situation (trapped in a room where there is no way he gets out alive)

That's the point. He's out of his element, he's been outmatched, his life hangs in the balance, and he doesn't properly know how to react to that.

this

it was the first time he'd been outsmarted. his only strength was his cunning. he was never brave, he was always a coward, so it made sense to me that he'd have a total meltdown when things didn't go his way and was completely stripped of power
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-RetroActive- posted...

UnholyMudcrab posted...

Itachi157 posted...

Cleo_II posted...

He went out like a chump. Very disappointing.

Yeah, it was a bit jarring seeing him literally on his knees begging for his life.

It doesn't make sense for a (supposed) master schemer like Littlefinger to ever end up in that situation (trapped in a room where there is no way he gets out alive)

That's the point. He's out of his element, he's been outmatched, his life hangs in the balance, and he doesn't properly know how to react to that.

this

it was the first time he'd been outsmarted. his only strength was his cunning. he was never brave, he was always a coward, so it made sense to me that he'd have a total meltdown when things didn't go his way and was completely stripped of power

He was out of his element, because D&D had no idea how to put him in his element. He had Sansa sold to the Boltons and then hedged all his chips on her and the Starks. When one of the smartest guy, who has caused so much shit and survived for so long, does crap like that, you know the guy who wrote that was in the toilet brainstorming ways to wrap it up.

If there was good writing this season, LF would've noticed the absolute void of power in the Riverlands, HIS childhood home and Robyn Arryns ancestral home and tried to consolidate power over there. This entire season was dedicated to providing fan-service for the Starks, so they sacrificed every character and their personality to make that happen.

I don't think you know LF very well, he was never a coward. He even tells Sansa, so many people, they take so little risks and then they die. He would sacrifice it all to get what he wants. Just because you don't fight, doesn't mean you're a coward. I imagine more than half the people on this site don't fight, doesn't mean we are all cowards.

LF was brave when he challenged generic-Stark solider #3. LF has often been careless, foolish and brash, which can be translated to bravery depending on perspective. For example when Cersei almost executed him for speaking his mind. He also trivializes her during their meeting at KL, the person with all the power. All his schemes are of those who do not fear the reprecussion, in previous seasons he had a certain air to his character. Someone with a relatively low birth, standing and challenging rules and kings of his time. In the final season, he was outmatched by a bunch of kids.

He should have to fight against Arya in a trial by combat.
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What I don't understand is why tf Sansa wouldn't destroy him on sight after he gave her to Ramsay. Jon at least could excuse him because of the reinforcements the Vale provided. This felt completely late.
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In the books we have so far, here is the plan he says he has (so keep in mind this may not be his entire plan or even his real one) and what we can mostly infer.

After he kills Lysa, Robert/Robin's epilepsy becomes more and more pronounced due to the stress of his mother's death. Littlefinger tells the Eyrie's maester to begin treating him with a drug called sweetsleep. A few grains of this will calm a fit, a pinch will put someone to sleep, and three pinches are fatal. The maester disapproves of this treatment, stating that sweetsleep doesn't leave the body with the implication that prolonged use can be fatal even with small doses. So while Littlefinger doesn't outright say it, he's most likely planning to kill Robert/Robin.

He tells Sansa that he plans to wed her to Harrold Hardyng, the cousin of Robert/Robin and his current heir. So if Sansa marries Harrold and Robert/Robin dies, she will be the Lady of the Vale. Keep in mind that the Vale is the only one of the seven kingdoms to stay out of the war; their armies and resources aren't depleted in the slightest. So you can kind of guess his plan from here: use the armies of the Vale to take back Winterfell. Once he reveals Sansa's identity, what remains of the North and the Riverland armies will flock to his banner. So he has the armies of three kingdoms to take King's Landing and install Sansa as queen.

And somewhere in that, he's going to bang and/or marry her to be King.
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pegusus123456 posted...

In the books we have so far, here is the plan he says he has (so keep in mind this may not be his entire plan or even his real one) and what we can mostly infer.

After he kills Lysa, Robert/Robin's epilepsy becomes more and more pronounced due to the stress of his mother's death. Littlefinger tells the Eyrie's maester to begin treating him with a drug called sweetsleep. A few grains of this will calm a fit, a pinch will put someone to sleep, and three pinches are fatal. The maester disapproves of this treatment, stating that sweetsleep doesn't leave the body with the implication that prolonged use can be fatal even with small doses. So while Littlefinger doesn't outright say it, he's most likely planning to kill Robert/Robin.

He tells Sansa that he plans to wed her to Harrold Hardyng, the cousin of Robert/Robin and his current heir. So if Sansa marries Harrold and Robert/Robin dies, she will be the Lady of the Vale. Keep in mind that the Vale is the only one of the seven kingdoms to stay out of the war; their armies and resources aren't depleted in the slightest. So you can kind of guess his plan from here: use the armies of the Vale to take back Winterfell. Once he reveals Sansa's identity, what remains of the North and the Riverland armies will flock to his banner. So he has the armies of three kingdoms to take King's Landing and install Sansa as queen.

And somewhere in that, he's going to bang and/or marry her to be King.

To the Night King? Now that's some 4D chess strategy.

His role in the plot has essentially wound down. There's just no time to focus on his schemes with everything else also going on without making the show even longer, one of the benefits of the books is there's much more space to fit in additional branching storylines it's the same reason there's no Lady Stoneheart or Aegon or why Sansa usurped Jeyne Poole's plotline.

And frankly I guarantee Sansa is going to be his death in the books as well.
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pegusus123456 posted...

In the books we have so far, here is the plan he says he has (so keep in mind this may not be his entire plan or even his real one) and what we can mostly infer.

After he kills Lysa, Robert/Robin's epilepsy becomes more and more pronounced due to the stress of his mother's death. Littlefinger tells the Eyrie's maester to begin treating him with a drug called sweetsleep. A few grains of this will calm a fit, a pinch will put someone to sleep, and three pinches are fatal. The maester disapproves of this treatment, stating that sweetsleep doesn't leave the body with the implication that prolonged use can be fatal even with small doses. So while Littlefinger doesn't outright say it, he's most likely planning to kill Robert/Robin.

He tells Sansa that he plans to wed her to Harrold Hardyng, the cousin of Robert/Robin and his current heir. So if Sansa marries Harrold and Robert/Robin dies, she will be the Lady of the Vale. Keep in mind that the Vale is the only one of the seven kingdoms to stay out of the war; their armies and resources aren't depleted in the slightest. So you can kind of guess his plan from here: use the armies of the Vale to take back Winterfell. Once he reveals Sansa's identity, what remains of the North and the Riverland armies will flock to his banner. So he has the armies of three kingdoms to take King's Landing and install Sansa as queen.

And somewhere in that, he's going to bang and/or marry her to be King.

Well it certainly sounds better than what we've gotten in the show which is just indeterminate scheming.
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OEIO999 posted...

To the Night King? Now that's some 4D chess strategy.

Oh, that's just his plan. He hasn't taken Daenarys and the Others into account, so it's assuredly not going to be happening that way.
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Littlefinger to The Mountain: You're a big guy
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It's pretty bullshit to kill him off like that. He had so much builld-up and he just dies like that without doing anything. Show is turning to shit because they are just focusing on who they perceive to be crowd favorites like Jon, Dany and Arya.
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Bran was his hard counter. As soon as Bran returned to Winterfell any schemes LF had to manipulate Sansa/the Starks was doomed to fail.

Callixtus posted...

pegusus123456 posted...

In the books we have so far, here is the plan he says he has (so keep in mind this may not be his entire plan or even his real one) and what we can mostly infer.

After he kills Lysa, Robert/Robin's epilepsy becomes more and more pronounced due to the stress of his mother's death. Littlefinger tells the Eyrie's maester to begin treating him with a drug called sweetsleep. A few grains of this will calm a fit, a pinch will put someone to sleep, and three pinches are fatal. The maester disapproves of this treatment, stating that sweetsleep doesn't leave the body with the implication that prolonged use can be fatal even with small doses. So while Littlefinger doesn't outright say it, he's most likely planning to kill Robert/Robin.

He tells Sansa that he plans to wed her to Harrold Hardyng, the cousin of Robert/Robin and his current heir. So if Sansa marries Harrold and Robert/Robin dies, she will be the Lady of the Vale. Keep in mind that the Vale is the only one of the seven kingdoms to stay out of the war; their armies and resources aren't depleted in the slightest. So you can kind of guess his plan from here: use the armies of the Vale to take back Winterfell. Once he reveals Sansa's identity, what remains of the North and the Riverland armies will flock to his banner. So he has the armies of three kingdoms to take King's Landing and install Sansa as queen.

And somewhere in that, he's going to bang and/or marry her to be King.

Well it certainly sounds better than what we've gotten in the show which is just indeterminate scheming.

Yeah, imagine thinking fanfiction would be better than the books!
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Srk700 posted...

Bran was his hard counter. As soon as Bran returned to Winterfell any schemes LF had to manipulate Sansa/the Starks was doomed to fail.

Bran just says these things without any evidence and everyone believes him. What a terrible way for Littlefinger to go out.
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_Squirtle_ posted...

Bang Sansa

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EzeMode posted...

Ic3Bullet posted...

I was extremely disappointed. A character as cunning and clever as Littlefinger should have spent his last 10 episodes trying to make some huge political movement. Instead, he spent his last several episodes trying to trick little girls. I feel like GRRM had something much more grand planned for him.

guess we gotta wait for the books. seems like too complex on a character for a TV show

Yea
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but at the end of Season Six doesn't he tell Sansa he wants to sit with her on the Iron Throne? But then all the Northerners crown Jon the king of the North, disrupting his plan as he expected Sansa to be named due to Jon's bastardness.
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Iain121 posted...

Bran just says these things without any evidence and everyone believes him. What a terrible way for Littlefinger to go out.

much more importantly, his sisters believe him

the implication of bran's statements isn't "this is evidence in a courtroom" but rather "i was aware you were trying to play my family, but we played you instead and caught you trying to play us because i see everything"

honestly everyone should have realized that they were gonna off LF with how they wrote him this season. he grabbed the idiot ball hard and did very little.

also they hung a super hard lampshade over arya being the one to kill him. when brienne asks sansa who can protect her from littlefinger, her response is "no one". cue arya scene going back to the north

obvious foreshadowing was obvious
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It's sad to see GoT unravel now that they can no longer follow the books.

clearaflagrantj posted...

It's sad to see GoT unravel now that they can no longer follow the books.

The show can't follow books that are never going to exist.
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He wanted to be king and marry Cat and then Sansa, plain and simple.
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clearaflagrantj posted...

It's sad to see GoT unravel now that they can no longer follow the books.

The show literally follows George's series outline, D/D are just figuring out how to format it into episodes.
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Littlefinger absolutely deserved a pathetic death.
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I wish he got beheaded.
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thompsontalker7 posted...

clearaflagrantj posted...

It's sad to see GoT unravel now that they can no longer follow the books.

The show literally follows George's series outline, D/D are just figuring out how to format it into episodes.

I don't think he even has an outline now in 2017, so nah
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