Current Events > Christopher Columbus monument destroyed.

(+) Yeah! (+)

istmirechtegal posted...

Are all you Americans who posted how awful Colombo (yeah that´s his real name) was, already packing and ready to leave America?

I have dual citizenship to be fair

But this is stupid. Getting rid of Confederate statues is okay with me, but if you take down every statue of a racist, by today's standards may as well take em all down
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itachi15243 posted...

istmirechtegal posted...

Are all you Americans who posted how awful Colombo (yeah that´s his real name) was, already packing and ready to leave America?

I have dual citizenship to be fair

But this is stupid. Getting rid of Confederate statues is okay with me, but if you take down every statue of a racist, by today's standards may as well take em all down

I´m with you, I just wanted to point out the hypocrisy of what some post in here
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itachi15243 posted...

istmirechtegal posted...

Are all you Americans who posted how awful Colombo (yeah that´s his real name) was, already packing and ready to leave America?

I have dual citizenship to be fair

But this is stupid. Getting rid of Confederate statues is okay with me, but if you take down every statue of a racist, by today's standards may as well take em all down

extremist only think in extremes. the eternal burden of the critical thinker is to convince them of the existence of other options.
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Well I don't agree with destroying public property but the fact we celebrate Columbus and have a day for him is outrageous to me.
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lilJoe457 posted...

Well I don't agree with destroying public property but the fact we celebrate Columbus and have a day for him is outrageous to me.

Columbus was a horrible person but what do you want? Should we just ignore Columbus and have a foundation of the original colonies day or something? The way we did that was horrible​ too.

Or should we just say fuck it and pretend Columbus' trip and what followed didn't really matter until the revolution?
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lilJoe457 posted...

Well I don't agree with destroying public property but the fact we celebrate Columbus and have a day for him is outrageous to me.

He was a man of his time and he made great accomplishments that basically completely changed the world as we know it.

Yeah he was an imperialist and all but what the hell do you wanna do, just pack up and leave so the natives can have their land back? Stop celebrating the name of any ancient white man who did bad things to brown people?

What's next, just removing all the faces from US currency?
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frozenshock posted...

lilJoe457 posted...

Well I don't agree with destroying public property but the fact we celebrate Columbus and have a day for him is outrageous to me.

He was a man of his time and he made great accomplishments that basically completely changed the world as we know it.

Yeah he was an imperialist and all but what the hell do you wanna do, just pack up and leave so the natives can have their land back? Stop celebrating the name of any ancient white man who did bad things to brown people?

What's next, just removing all the faces from US currency?

It's not because he was an imperialist, it is because he was a criminal and shit tier person even during those times.

But it doesn't change what he did or the impact he had on this country
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frozenshock posted...

lilJoe457 posted...

Well I don't agree with destroying public property but the fact we celebrate Columbus and have a day for him is outrageous to me.

He was a man of his time and he made great accomplishments that basically completely changed the world as we know it.

Yeah he was an imperialist and all but what the hell do you wanna do, just pack up and leave so the natives can have their land back? Stop celebrating the name of any ancient white man who did bad things to brown people?

What's next, just removing all the faces from US currency?

with this mentality, where do you draw the line? many people were wiped out in the name of conquest.
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Should we destroy buckingham palace as well? I mean, it IS a the symbol of classism, oppression, murder, genocide and slavery.

FluttershyPony posted...

Should we destroy buckingham palace as well? I mean, it IS a the symbol of classism, oppression, murder, genocide and slavery.

these extremist comments really don't help the conversation, guy.
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Should we destroy monuments of African Americans because of the astonamical crime rate or Native American statues because they opposed the Founding Fathers? It's only fair.
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RickyTheBAWSE posted...

with this mentality, where do you draw the line? many people were wiped out in the name of conquest.

I draw the line at how fucking long ago he lived.

His accomplishments live on and, in some ways, we're living in the world that he started to build. But he's a historical figure.

Comparatively, Hitler is a contemporary. Many people alive today lost parents and grandparents because of Hitler. But Columbus was literally 500 years ago, it's just way too late IMO to go back and change street names and remove his statues etc just because we don't like some of the things he did.
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RickyTheBAWSE posted...

with this mentality, where do you draw the line? many people were wiped out in the name of conquest.

Yet, because of conquest, a conquest that wiped out many people, you came to exist.

Remember that.
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NurseRedHeart posted...

Should we destroy monuments of African Americans because of the astonamical crime rate

That's a weird analogy...we're talking about monuments being taken down because of things those specific white men did, and your comparison is to take down statues of individual black people not because of something they personally did but because of the high crime rate within the entire black community?
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Tear down all statues of Julius Caesar! He enslaved tens if not hundreds of thousands of Gauls and his wars may have killed millions of people!
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NurseRedHeart posted...

Should we destroy monuments of African Americans because of the astonamical crime rate or Native American statues because they opposed the Founding Fathers? It's only fair.

Plenty of arguments for the statues to remain. This isn't one of them.

I do wonder though, with all this "preserve history in museums" talk, if people REALLY think Antifa aren't going to try to protest these museums, deface the displays, and shout "Nazi scum" at people going to see them. It is almost a certainty.

_RETS_ posted...

if people REALLY think Antifa aren't going to try to protest these museums, deface the displays, and shout "Nazi scum" at people going to see them. It is almost a certainty.

If they're not already protesting the existing Hitler memorabilia in various American museums, there's no reason to think they'll protest these museums either.
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Humans have done bad things and most statues are of humans. Therefore, destroy all statues of humans.

I am very intelligent.
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That_Happened posted...

_RETS_ posted...

if people REALLY think Antifa aren't going to try to protest these museums, deface the displays, and shout "Nazi scum" at people going to see them. It is almost a certainty.

If they're not already protesting the existing Hitler memorabilia in various American museums, there's no reason to think they'll protest these museums either.

That's because they currently have something to focus their outrage on. They are going to ride this train their whole lives for one "cause" or another. At least that's my bet

Kim Kusanagi posted...

RickyTheBAWSE posted...

with this mentality, where do you draw the line? many people were wiped out in the name of conquest.

Yet, because of conquest, a conquest that wiped out many people, you came to exist.

Remember that.

you assume I'm as selfish as you. I'd gladly have never existed than have millions and millions suffer at the hands of White supremacy in America.

remember that.
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@RebelElite791

Do you think the people that destroy these statues should face punishment for their crimes? Because no matter what your feelings are, you can't destroy people's property.
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RickyTheBAWSE posted...

I'd gladly have never existed

If only that had been your case.

LOL, he was given life by his parents who wanted him yet he despises the gift of life yet I'm the selfish one.

Can you smell the hypocrisy.
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RickyTheBAWSE posted...

Kim Kusanagi posted...

RickyTheBAWSE posted...

with this mentality, where do you draw the line? many people were wiped out in the name of conquest.

Yet, because of conquest, a conquest that wiped out many people, you came to exist.

Remember that.

you assume I'm as selfish as you. I'd gladly have never existed than have millions and millions suffer at the hands of White supremacy in America.

remember that.

What a martyr complex lmao

Are you a white liberal?
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Callixtus posted...

RickyTheBAWSE posted...

Kim Kusanagi posted...

RickyTheBAWSE posted...

with this mentality, where do you draw the line? many people were wiped out in the name of conquest.

Yet, because of conquest, a conquest that wiped out many people, you came to exist.

Remember that.

you assume I'm as selfish as you. I'd gladly have never existed than have millions and millions suffer at the hands of White supremacy in America.

remember that.

What a martyr complex lmao

Are you a white liberal?

how insecure are you to want to label me?
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Sounds like a yes.
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Callixtus posted...

What a martyr complex lmao

indeed
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Callixtus posted...

Sounds like a yes.

so very insecure is your answer? sounds about right. especially since you're completely dependant on confirmation bias based on nothing substantial.

FYI: somebody who was never born can't be a Martyr.
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"He was a man of his time" is such bullshit
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UnfairRepresent posted...

"He was a man of his time" is such bullshit

So Muhammad was a pedophile?
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s0nicfan posted...

UnfairRepresent posted...

"He was a man of his time" is such bullshit

So Muhammad was a pedophile?

Yes

What's with this mindset of "If you're a liberal you have to defend Islam

Sorry, I'm not as simple minded as a majority of conservatives

(I know your post was directed at Unfair and not me, but still. Fuck off with your weird "gotcha" questions lmao)
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That'll show him. Good old peaceful left.
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Samurontai posted...

Yes

What's with this mindset of "If you're a liberal you have to defend Islam

Sorry, I'm not as simple minded as a majority of conservatives

(I know your post was directed at Unfair and not me, but still. Fuck off with your weird "gotcha" questions lmao)

Do you really find it so incredulous that someone would assume a modern liberal (or even conservative, for that matter) holds inconsistent standards? It's not an issue of being simple-minded. It's an issue of people not applying their internal logic to other opinions to see if it holds up or if they're just parroting talking points.
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s0nicfan posted...

Samurontai posted...

Yes

What's with this mindset of "If you're a liberal you have to defend Islam

Sorry, I'm not as simple minded as a majority of conservatives

(I know your post was directed at Unfair and not me, but still. Fuck off with your weird "gotcha" questions lmao)

Do you really find it so incredulous that someone would assume a modern liberal (or even conservative, for that matter) holds inconsistent standards? It's not an issue of being simple-minded. It's an issue of people not applying their internal logic to other opinions to see if it holds up or if they're just parroting talking points.

sounds like you described a symptom of simplemindedness.

too many of these types are shortsighted, knee-jerk reacting simpletons. it's not a political affiliation specific thing. blind tribalism and fear of being alienated gives the sheep incentive to be sheep.
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s0nicfan posted...

Do you really find it so incredulous that someone would assume a modern liberal (or even conservative, for that matter) holds inconsistent standards? It's not an issue of being simple-minded. It's an issue of people not applying their internal logic to other opinions to see if it holds up or if they're just parroting talking points.

Moral relativism is stupid.

There were slavery absolutionists during the Roman Empire.

"Well it was past" isn't a defense of horrible attitudes.

What matters is how you justifiy and explain your attitude. If you've reached the conclusion with sound logic and pragmatism, odds are your views are going to be great or at least coherant no matter what the time period is.

Going "Well lots of people were dicks back then so it's okay" is no more of a defense than it is now to justify horribleness.
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What is a "slavery absolutionist"?
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Callixtus posted...

What is a "slavery absolutionist"?

Someone who wants to abolish slavery.
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UnfairRepresent posted...

Callixtus posted...

What is a "slavery absolutionist"?

Someone who wants to abolish slavery.

That's an abolitionist
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The Great Muta 22 posted...

Callixtus posted...

@The Great Muta 22

You know that was almost 300 years later right lmao

Yeah I knew that specifically with those quotes, but I was curious to see if it happened with Columbus nefariously. I'll admit my knowledge of like, the age of exploration isn't nearly as good as I wish it could be.

The bigger point to be made is that by the time those events in the 1700's happened most of the damage from smallpox had been done. The only reason that Europeans and for that matter Asians and Africans all had some resistance to smallpox was that the disease had already ravaged every corner of the old world repeatedly over the course of thousands of years.

It didn't need people spreading it intentionally with blankets in order to kill most of the population in the Americas. It spread faster across the continent than Europeans did.

I'm not saying that Columbus was a good guy but it is just stupid to pretend like the only reason that smallpox killed most of the people in the Americas was that some jerk intentionally spread it. It was going to happen at some point once Europeans or Asians or Africans landed made contact with the new world.

RickyTheBAWSE posted...

sigh...

I feel no connection to that monument, but this has to stop. these actions are slippery slopes.

Pretty much
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WizardPowers posted...

despite being a huge monster wasn't he like super fucking crucial to your American history?

If you guys found out Lincoln sold children in sex slavery would you want his monument destroyed despite his historical influence?

Lincoln never was involved in sex slavery AFAIK but he had no problems condoning violations of freedom of speech, freedom of the press, and right to a trial by jury when it suited his goals despite swearing an oath to uphold those freedoms. And he was perfectly ok with ignoring court rulings that weren't in his favor which screws up the system that is supposed to limit a president's power.
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