Current Events > Don't you people ever see both sides?

(+) Yeah! (+)

Like the trans military issue. There are clearly issues with both sides that people just ignore. There probably is no clear solution either way. I understand trans people caught in the middle who at the very least should be grandfathered in, but there are already a lot of people who abuse the system for medical and dental(wisdom tooth extraction alone) go reserves and fuck off till the contact is done. With this it opens a whole new responsibility and if you transition you won't be operational a lot due to multiple surgeries. The military already doesn't allow people to join for pretty small things and psychological conditions. Honestly I just don't know the solution...It isn't fair, but I get the worry of not having people available or being constantly gone or abusing govt. funds, which I'm sure would be in the minority.
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Getting your wisdom teeth pulled is abusing the medical system?
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Melonfarms posted...

Getting your wisdom teeth pulled is abusing the medical system?

yeah this

like what

if it's bad enough you could have pain in your mouth your whole life or in worst case scenarios it could end up killing you
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MARKINGRAM22 posted...

there are already a lot of people who abuse the system for medical and dental(wisdom tooth extraction alone) go reserves and fuck off till the contact is done.

And those people are still serving in the military.

Abusing the system is wrong. Banning an entire demographic because some of them might abuse the system is worse.
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MARKINGRAM22 posted...

Like the trans military issue. There are clearly issues with both sides that people just ignore. There probably is no clear solution either way. I understand trans people caught in the middle who at the very least should be grandfathered in, but there are already a lot of people who abuse the system for medical and dental(wisdom tooth extraction alone) go reserves and fuck off till the contact is done. With this it opens a whole new responsibility and if you transition you won't be operational a lot due to multiple surgeries. The military already doesn't allow people to join for pretty small things and psychological conditions. Honestly I just don't know the solution...It isn't fair, but I get the worry of not having people available or being constantly gone or abusing govt. funds, which I'm sure would be in the minority.

People currently already join the military for financial and medical incentives and it seems like most people are fine with it, so I don't see why this is now an issue because a trans person is doing it.

Even if you consider it abusing the system, are you going to put a blanket ban on only transgender people for them potentially abusing the system
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Melonfarms posted...

Getting your wisdom teeth pulled is abusing the medical system?

It is one example of an expensive dental procedure. People can get like 15 thousand dollars worth of dental stuff right out of the gate then just fuck off. It happens a lot.
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It's the military's fault if they let people "go reserves" if that is actually a bad thing.
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The Deadpool posted...

MARKINGRAM22 posted...

there are already a lot of people who abuse the system for medical and dental(wisdom tooth extraction alone) go reserves and fuck off till the contact is done.

And those people are still serving in the military.

Abusing the system is wrong. Banning an entire demographic because some of them might abuse the system is worse.

I think the bigger issue is not being operational unless they start covering all cosmetic procedures if for the purpose of transitioning.
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how in the good fuck is getting a wisdom tooth extracted "abusing the medical system"

what the fuck is wrong with all of you

i literally used to think i was stupid until you fucking lunatics showed up

Sativa_Rose posted...

It's the military's fault if they let people "go reserves" if that is actually a bad thing.

Well there is a purpose for reserves, they can't get rid of it.
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What do you mean "you people"?
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MARKINGRAM22 posted...

Sativa_Rose posted...

It's the military's fault if they let people "go reserves" if that is actually a bad thing.

Well there is a purpose for reserves, they can't get rid of it.

Then the military isn't suffering. If the military had a problem with too many active duty people trying to go to the reserves, they could just shut that option down.
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Don't you people ever see both sides?

Of course not. It's the Internet.
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FrenchCrunch posted...

how in the good fuck is getting a wisdom tooth extracted "abusing the medical system"

what the fuck is wrong with all of you

i literally used to think i was stupid until you fucking lunatics showed up

Way to exaggerate. People do get tens of thousands of dollars of dental and medical, and go on irr where they basically detach. That is one example of an expensive procedure, but there is lots of things people get to be operational. Not to mention the cost of basic and follow on training that is thrown out. Btw this isn't an issue with trans people in the military atm just say how it COULD be. Being not operational is the bigger issue, but I'm not even saying I agree with the ban just see issues with both sides.
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Sativa_Rose posted...

MARKINGRAM22 posted...

Sativa_Rose posted...

It's the military's fault if they let people "go reserves" if that is actually a bad thing.

Well there is a purpose for reserves, they can't get rid of it.

Then the military isn't suffering. If the military had a problem with too many active duty people trying to go to the reserves, they could just shut that option down.

Many people go straight to reserves and there has to be reserves. People use it a lot to go to school and will go on orders again after and they need it in case something happens and they need to call up more personal, this way they will have people operational that can be called upon.
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MARKINGRAM22 posted...

Sativa_Rose posted...

MARKINGRAM22 posted...

Sativa_Rose posted...

It's the military's fault if they let people "go reserves" if that is actually a bad thing.

Well there is a purpose for reserves, they can't get rid of it.

Then the military isn't suffering. If the military had a problem with too many active duty people trying to go to the reserves, they could just shut that option down.

Many people go straight to reserves and there has to be reserves. People use it a lot to go to school and will go on orders again after and they need it in case something happens and they need to call up more personal, this way they will have people operational that can be called upon.

I don't think he's saying disband the reserves. He's saying remove the option to get a surgery then afterwards join the reserves
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MARKINGRAM22 posted...

Btw this isn't an issue with trans people in the military atm just say how it COULD be.

Rather than speculating on rhetorical shibboleths, why not talk about talk about the actual world, wherein trans people already literally paid for their own operations with their military service with no interference from anyone, and would presumably have continued doing so before this issue became political.
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The issue is say someone gets surgery and then they are called to be mobilized, but aren't ready for two months that would be a big issue. Or they have to go on medical leave cause psychologically they can't deal with being their assigned sex and might be gone while they transition leaving their job. If you have ever even been to psychologist before that is a major red flag when you join, depression symptoms as well, which this can fall under.
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hollow_shrine posted...

MARKINGRAM22 posted...

Btw this isn't an issue with trans people in the military atm just say how it COULD be.

Rather than speculating on rhetorical shibboleths, why not talk about talk about the actual world, wherein trans people already literally paid for their own operations with their military service with no interference from anyone, and would presumably have continued doing so before this issue became political.

It isn't baseless speculation it was just voted on. I was just mentioning a realistic potential issue.
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MARKINGRAM22 posted...

The issue is say someone gets surgery and then they are called to be mobilized, but aren't ready for two months that would be a big issue. Or they have to go on medical leave cause psychologically they can't deal with being their assigned sex and might be gone while they transition leaving their job. If you have ever even been to psychologist before that is a major red flag when you join, depression symptoms as well, which this can fall under.

Thus could apply to anyone though. Apart for that specific mental issue.
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emblem boy posted...

MARKINGRAM22 posted...

Sativa_Rose posted...

MARKINGRAM22 posted...

Sativa_Rose posted...

It's the military's fault if they let people "go reserves" if that is actually a bad thing.

Well there is a purpose for reserves, they can't get rid of it.

Then the military isn't suffering. If the military had a problem with too many active duty people trying to go to the reserves, they could just shut that option down.

Many people go straight to reserves and there has to be reserves. People use it a lot to go to school and will go on orders again after and they need it in case something happens and they need to call up more personal, this way they will have people operational that can be called upon.

I don't think he's saying disband the reserves. He's saying remove the option to get a surgery then afterwards join the reserves

So just block off trans people from joining the reserves? I don't see how you could block off anyone from specifically the reserves. The issue would persist if someone joined the reserves transitioned and then wasn't operational.
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Why should this even be a issue?

If they can do their job and they aren't causing a problem; why are you trying to ban them?
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If someone wants to make a mental medical reason that's actually true why they shouldn't be allowed, then I can understand that. Financial reasons don't make sense to me though because we've already accepted that we give people financial incentives to join the military
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MARKINGRAM22 posted...

The issue is say someone gets surgery and then they are called to be mobilized, but aren't ready for two months that would be a big issue. Or they have to go on medical leave cause psychologically they can't deal with being their assigned sex and might be gone while they transition leaving their job. If you have ever even been to psychologist before that is a major red flag when you join, depression symptoms as well, which this can fall under.

Women get pregnant to avoid deployment but we don't punish them or ban them from the military. A few bad apples shouldn't lead to everyone getting punishment even though mass punishment is the military way.
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MARKINGRAM22 posted...

emblem boy posted...

MARKINGRAM22 posted...

Sativa_Rose posted...

MARKINGRAM22 posted...

Sativa_Rose posted...

It's the military's fault if they let people "go reserves" if that is actually a bad thing.

Well there is a purpose for reserves, they can't get rid of it.

Then the military isn't suffering. If the military had a problem with too many active duty people trying to go to the reserves, they could just shut that option down.

Many people go straight to reserves and there has to be reserves. People use it a lot to go to school and will go on orders again after and they need it in case something happens and they need to call up more personal, this way they will have people operational that can be called upon.

I don't think he's saying disband the reserves. He's saying remove the option to get a surgery then afterwards join the reserves

So just block off trans people from joining the reserves? I don't see how you could block off anyone from specifically the reserves. The issue would persist if someone joined the reserves transitioned and then wasn't operational.

No, block off anyone from getting a surgery then immediately joining the reserves. Youv said that's what the issue is right,
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We're stuck in tribal mode. Gotta eat some special candy to force our evolution
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MARKINGRAM22 posted...

The issue is say someone gets surgery and then they are called to be mobilized, but aren't ready for two months that would be a big issue. Or they have to go on medical leave cause psychologically they can't deal with being their assigned sex and might be gone while they transition leaving their job. If you have ever even been to psychologist before that is a major red flag when you join, depression symptoms as well, which this can fall under.

People already take medical leave for other operations and surgical procedures. And they have for decades. We have procedures in place to keep necessary positions staffed that have been in place for longer than either of us have been alive. No one cared. And people knowledgeable about those systems still don't care. It's only those of us speaking from ignorance that are causing issues here. There aren't actually two sides to this issue. There's the truth, and then there's misinformed outrage mill that's conveniently getting targeted at minorities, again.
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What do you mean, you people!?
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There probably is no clear solution either way.

No, what Trump's doing is a pretty definitive solution.
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SageHarpuia posted...

There probably is no clear solution either way.

No, what Trump's doing is a pretty definitive solution.

To what problem, exactly?
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There are a lot of situations out there where both sides have merit where recognition and discussion would ultimately lead to the best of both worlds.

This is not one of those situations. This intent to ban trans people from the military is shameful. If they pass the proper evaluations they should be allowed to join like anyone else.
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Just to let you know where I live a bunch of funds comes from scratch-off lottery tickets and gambling computers.

I'm not worried I'm taking advantage of the VA. I worked hard for 4 yrs in the Coast Guard, two years helping civilians with advise on their paperwork at day and search and rescue at night (if something happened). I didn't get the next day off.
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It shouldn't matter if you're LGBTQAI+ or female, you SHOULD BE ABLE TO serve.

If you can fulfill all the EXACT same standard as males for infantry, you should be able to go out on the battle field, period.

No special accomadations will be made because you're LGBTQAI+ or female.

All people shall be treated the exact same whether they are out on the front line or in the back line supporting the front line.
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KamenRiderBlade posted...

If you can fulfill all the EXACT same standard as males for infantry,

Exactly, and studies have shown that they can't.
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SageHarpuia posted...

Exactly, and studies have shown that they can't.

Source?
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SageHarpuia posted...

KamenRiderBlade posted...

If you can fulfill all the EXACT same standard as males for infantry,

Exactly, and studies have shown that they can't.

Except for the ones that do. But those are inconvenient details.

Continue.
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hollow_shrine posted...

SageHarpuia posted...

KamenRiderBlade posted...

If you can fulfill all the EXACT same standard as males for infantry,

Exactly, and studies have shown that they can't.

Except for the ones that do. But those are inconvenient details.

Continue.

And the ones that can pass the male infantry physical requirements should move on to serve in the front lines while those who can't pass the physical should be in support roles.

I don't see how this should be controversial in any way shape or form?
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