Current Events > Transgender MtF sprinter wins 2 girls' state championships

(+) Yeah! (+)

Shadow20201 posted...

gunplagirl posted...

Asherlee10 posted...

That_Happened posted...

Asherlee10 posted...

What elements of men make them better athletes than women (in most cases)? Is it the testosterone? The bone structure? The muscle ratio?

Puberty plays an enormous role. But yeah, muscle, testosterone.

So, when someone transitions from MtF do they lose that muscle tone and testosterone level that would give that person the advantage?

With proper hormone levels being maintained, it'll be 6-12 months before muscle atrophy becomes severe. For those who transitioned young and had puberty blocked for their default hormones, it'll never even be a thing.

Bone structure is bs though, as trans women actually have higher risks for osteoporosis and those sorts of bone diseases.

Atrophy onset comes later for athletes than for average folk.

The 6-12 mark is for all who actually maintain their hormone regiment. Most have it happen earlier but those who have more muscles would be toward the latter period. I'm inclined to say that she isn't struggling with affording her meds so they wouldn't have issues. Even with unnaturally high levels of t (like say, 900), it takes not even 2 months to get it back to levels below that of cis women during their menses (which is when their t spikes higher).
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gunplagirl posted...

Real girls? To start hormones a trans woman needs several letters from doctors and mental health professionals to verify their gender and that it I'd medically necessary to live as a woman.

There doesn't seem to be any indication that was the case for this person to compete, let alone live as one. Even so, I'm not bothered by this person competing and winning.
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hockeybub89 posted...

Steve Nick posted...

gunplagirl posted...

Steve Nick posted...

gunplagirl posted...

scorpion41 posted...

So he was too slow to compete with the boys(12.6 in the 100 and 26 in the 200 are awful times for boys sprinters) and he slapped a wig on so he could beat all the girls instead. What a joke that this was actually allowed.

Yes, because teenagers would put winning races over their ability to fit in or make friends or feel safe in public, possibly losing their family members care and housing as well.

It's not even about the transgender in this case.

It's about the real girls, who want to engage in real, fair competition. It's fucking ridiculous to make female athletes compete against biological males.

Real girls? To start hormones a trans woman needs several letters from doctors and mental health professionals to verify their gender and that it I'd medically necessary to live as a woman.

I don't know a single cis woman who has ever had to prove she's a woman. She just says she is and everyone accepts that.

Feelsies over realsies on your healsies.

That's because everyone can tell they're women with basic recognition, in addition to knowing the history of that person. They're accepted as women...because there is no doubt that they are women.

Why didn't you highlight her part about the requirements for hormones too? Everyone always glosses over the transition process. Doctors have to determine they are women before they can take hormones.

The reason I didn't highlight it is because I was not replying to that part. I highlighted the part that I was replying to. Basic stuff, man.
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gunplagirl posted...

For example you havz there's plenty of other trans girls who don't even come close to qualifying for their district finals. Or league fibals, even. Can you even provide numbers on the amount of trans competitors in high school sports for any given year?

Can you provide any sources at ALL that match what you are claiming?

If I were to humor you, I would argue that the trans people that DON'T place weren't very fit anyway. But if you take the top most fit trans m > f compared to the top most fit biological females the examples we are seeing show up in tons of places are more than enough to give me reasonable doubt.

I'm not blind the very real possibility that there is an issue here.
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Steve Nick posted...

gunplagirl posted...

Steve Nick posted...

gunplagirl posted...

scorpion41 posted...

So he was too slow to compete with the boys(12.6 in the 100 and 26 in the 200 are awful times for boys sprinters) and he slapped a wig on so he could beat all the girls instead. What a joke that this was actually allowed.

Yes, because teenagers would put winning races over their ability to fit in or make friends or feel safe in public, possibly losing their family members care and housing as well.

It's not even about the transgender in this case.

It's about the real girls, who want to engage in real, fair competition. It's fucking ridiculous to make female athletes compete against biological males.

Real girls? To start hormones a trans woman needs several letters from doctors and mental health professionals to verify their gender and that it I'd medically necessary to live as a woman.

I don't know a single cis woman who has ever had to prove she's a woman. She just says she is and everyone accepts that.

Feelsies over realsies on your healsies.

That's because everyone can tell they're women with basic recognition, in addition to knowing the history of that person. They're accepted as women...because there is no doubt that they are women.

So they are women because they're women?

Circular logic much?

Or is it that only those you determine are women are women?
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Asherlee10 posted...

That_Happened posted...

Asherlee10 posted...

What elements of men make them better athletes than women (in most cases)? Is it the testosterone? The bone structure? The muscle ratio?

Puberty plays an enormous role. But yeah, muscle, testosterone.

So, when someone transitions from MtF do they lose that muscle tone and testosterone level that would give that person the advantage?

Testoterone still affect more than estrogen.

Iirc you still lose muscle as mtf, but you wont be as weak as regular female. You're gunna be weaker than other men, but probably still above average women, espcially if you train.

Ftm however can gain muscles and power almost as regular men, but not vice versa
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Asherlee10 posted...

I really hope I can word this in a way without getting modded or coming across as racist.

Preface: I do not know that this is the case or not the case.

Do we have data that shows whether or not people of African descent are better athletes than other races? Or is that not a thing, only a perception?

You need more data than the NBA and NFL?
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Shadow20201 posted...

gunplagirl posted...

Real girls? To start hormones a trans woman needs several letters from doctors and mental health professionals to verify their gender and that it I'd medically necessary to live as a woman.

There doesn't seem to be any indication that was the case for this person to compete, let alone live as one. Even so, I'm not bothered by this person competing and winning.

They are trans, that's reason enough. And no doctor would be able to give hormones to a patient under 18 (or over 18) without some serious proof their gender identity is genuine.

And every student has the right to compete, nondiscrimination laws are federally mandated even if Betsy devos wants to dance around that point from here to next week.
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gunplagirl posted...

Shadow20201 posted...

gunplagirl posted...

Real girls? To start hormones a trans woman needs several letters from doctors and mental health professionals to verify their gender and that it I'd medically necessary to live as a woman.

There doesn't seem to be any indication that was the case for this person to compete, let alone live as one. Even so, I'm not bothered by this person competing and winning.

They are trans, that's reason enough. And no doctor would be able to give hormones to a patient under 18 (or over 18) without some serious proof their gender identity is genuine.

And every student has the right to compete, nondiscrimination laws are federally mandated even if Betsy devos wants to dance around that point from here to next week.

They should have the right to compete. On the men's team.
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Asherlee10 posted...

I really hope I can word this in a way without getting modded or coming across as racist.

Preface: I do not know that this is the case or not the case.

Do we have data that shows whether or not people of African descent are better athletes than other races? Or is that not a thing, only a perception?

That's precisely what's going on here. The parallels are there. People have even tried to argue that African women have unfair advantages and cite the lack of distinct differences in appearance to try and validate that argument.

That argument is racist and invalid, just the same as this one is transphobic and invalid. And like the former, the latter will one day be defended and the people who oppose it will be remembered on the wrong side of history. Well, supposing we live to see another three generations or so.
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gunplagirl posted...

That argument is racist and invalid, just the same as this one is transphobic and invalid. And like the former, the latter will one day be defended and the people who oppose it will be remembered on the wrong side of history. Well, supposing we live to see another three generations or so.

And on that day, every single major record in women's sports will be owned by someone that was born a man.

Progress!
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Asherlee10 posted...

I really hope I can word this in a way without getting modded or coming across as racist.

Preface: I do not know that this is the case or not the case.

Do we have data that shows whether or not people of African descent are better athletes than other races? Or is that not a thing, only a perception?

There's data, but even mentioning it will get you shut down instantly if not outright ejected from society, so nobody even bothers anymore.
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The reason we don't segregate by race is because there's no clearly defined differences between race, nor a way to properly divide divisions for sports teams based on race. Not all people of every race are made equal. There's people that are mixed race, etc. There are dominant athletes of all races that compete in fair competition against one another. It'd be impossible to regulate.

Women and men's sports are pretty easy to regulate though. You have two team's. Men's team, and women's team. If you're a man, you can play for the men's team. If you're a woman, you can play for the women's team. If you're something in between/unsure, then you play for the men's team, since women shouldn't be punished by unfair play.
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Asherlee10 posted...

I really hope I can word this in a way without getting modded or coming across as racist.

Preface: I do not know that this is the case or not the case.

Do we have data that shows whether or not people of African descent are better athletes than other races? Or is that not a thing, only a perception?

It's a perception. Many black athletes come from poor backgrounds where they have to be athletic to survive. Their whole lives revolve around running, jumping, etc. Basketball players in the USA are predominantly black because it's something they usually pick up and play all their lives and get better at it.

White athletes coming from a similar background are usually equal to their black counterparts. They're both indirectly training by surviving their environment. The majority of whites, however, or either rich or middle class kids who spend the majority of their off time working or doing nothing productive. The ones that do train for athletics most of the time still don't reach the level of their black peers because they aren't trying to survive...it's not a necessity.
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Cuz I am whatever I say I am! And if I wasn't then why would I say I am?

scorpion41 posted...

Asherlee10 posted...

I really hope I can word this in a way without getting modded or coming across as racist.

Preface: I do not know that this is the case or not the case.

Do we have data that shows whether or not people of African descent are better athletes than other races? Or is that not a thing, only a perception?

It's a perception. Many black athletes come from poor backgrounds where they have to be athletic to survive. Their whole lives revolve around running, jumping, etc. Basketball players in the USA are predominantly black because it's something they usually pick up and play all their lives and get better at it.

White athletes coming from a similar background are usually equal to their black counterparts. They're both indirectly training by surviving their environment. The majority of whites, however, or either rich or middle class kids who spend the majority of their off time working or doing nothing productive. The ones that do train for athletics most of the time still don't reach the level of their black peers because they aren't trying to survive...it's not a necessity.

ah, benevolent bigotry, what a strange thing you are.
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gunplagirl posted...

Shadow20201 posted...

gunplagirl posted...

Real girls? To start hormones a trans woman needs several letters from doctors and mental health professionals to verify their gender and that it I'd medically necessary to live as a woman.

There doesn't seem to be any indication that was the case for this person to compete, let alone live as one. Even so, I'm not bothered by this person competing and winning.

They are trans, that's reason enough. And no doctor would be able to give hormones to a patient under 18 (or over 18) without some serious proof their gender identity is genuine.

And every student has the right to compete, nondiscrimination laws are federally mandated even if Betsy devos wants to dance around that point from here to next week.

My point was they may not even necessarily be on HRT. The article didn't include that point of information (and unfortunately comes off as somewhat biased against them) while adding in they were competing on the men's team roughly a year ago. The only criteria mentioned for them to compete was for them to self-identify as their gender and for their school to agree with it.
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Steve Nick posted...

hockeybub89 posted...

Dustin1280 posted...

gunplagirl posted...

Dustin1280 posted...

http://www.wnd.com/2017/03/female-athletes-crushed-by-women-who-were-once-men/

There is more data towards their being a definite problem, then not.

In many of the cases they usually beat the previous record by a HUGE margin.

Examples without science or numbers (ie hormone levels) to validate it does not actually count as data. It still needs to be interpreted by people with regard to hormone levels and the like.

BTW bone density is moot because weight classes, how do they work.

I would rather trust my examples than your "i don't need sources."

Your FEELINGS are not more important then fairness

Sports aren't fair. If you are better, you win more. Michael Phelps was born naturally superior to everyone as a swimmer and largely destroyed everyone in his prime. I also think it is funny people suddenly care about women's sports.

The point of women's sports is to allow a biologically inferior demographic to participate in a fun activity.

If sports weren't segregated by gender, women would never get to play sports.

They are segregated by gender. This sprinter is of the same gender as her fellow competitors.

There are undoubtedly more trans female athletes competing out there than those who are winning state championships. They aren't all winning or even succeeding. I was also unaware the only way to have fun in an individual sport was by winning a state championship or that the majority cis women are somehow barred from competing.
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Asherlee10 posted...

Steve Nick posted...

The reason we don't segregate by race is because there's no clearly defined differences between race, nor a way to properly divide divisions for sports teams based on race.

Great point.

And yet Steve will die on this hill shouting that we need to remove trans women from cis women.
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Fuck it, we should just merge the sports and allow both sexes to compete and get rid of substance regulations.

Let the best abomination win. Only way to be fair. Judging hormone levels or any of that shit is just parsing bullshit.

Let everyone compete, no items, final destination only.
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hockeybub89 posted...

Steve Nick posted...

hockeybub89 posted...

Dustin1280 posted...

gunplagirl posted...

Dustin1280 posted...

http://www.wnd.com/2017/03/female-athletes-crushed-by-women-who-were-once-men/

There is more data towards their being a definite problem, then not.

In many of the cases they usually beat the previous record by a HUGE margin.

Examples without science or numbers (ie hormone levels) to validate it does not actually count as data. It still needs to be interpreted by people with regard to hormone levels and the like.

BTW bone density is moot because weight classes, how do they work.

I would rather trust my examples than your "i don't need sources."

Your FEELINGS are not more important then fairness

Sports aren't fair. If you are better, you win more. Michael Phelps was born naturally superior to everyone as a swimmer and largely destroyed everyone in his prime. I also think it is funny people suddenly care about women's sports.

The point of women's sports is to allow a biologically inferior demographic to participate in a fun activity.

If sports weren't segregated by gender, women would never get to play sports.

They are segregated by gender. This sprinter is of the same gender as her fellow competitors.

There are undoubtedly more trans female athletes competing out there than those who are winning state championships. They aren't all winning or even succeeding. I was also unaware the only way to have fun in an individual sport was by winning a state championship or that the majority cis women are somehow barred from competing.

They aren't of the same gender. One is female. One is a transgender female. They're not the same thing.

The reason transgenders aren't winning all of female competitions is simple. There aren't many trans people, so there's likely to be less total number of talented trans athletes. Take for example, a school of 2000 people. 1000 boys, 1000 girls. Let's say 1 in 1000, as a rough guess, is transgender. So, take one RANDOM boy from that school. Is he always going to be better than the most talented female athlete? Of course not. By sheer numbers, it's 1000 against 1. The male, or transgender female, if you prefer, is going to have a tremendous advantage, but still might be an inferior athlete.
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If there are more than two genders, why are there trans men and trans women? Why do they pick one instead of trans just being it's own thing?

There's really no difference between cis or trans women but hey, this is the guy who called women biologically inferior instead of athletically. Was not a slip up, was it?
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Mystere posted...

If there are more than two genders, why are there trans men and trans women? Why do they pick one instead of trans just being it's own thing?

I believe it's to establish what they were, and where they want to go.

For the longest time I thought a transgender woman meant that it was a woman that was transgender(ie, wanted to be a man). Turns out it's the opposite.
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Mystere posted...

If there are more than two genders, why are there trans men and trans women? Why do they pick one instead of trans just being it's own thing?

because trans and gender fluidity are inherently opposite concepts. If being trans is a biological thing then concepts like "I'm man today, woman tomorrow, somewhere in between on the weekend" is inherently impossible. If it's a state of mind thing, then there's no biological imperative to get reassignment surgery. However, rather than actively address this conflict, people generally just pretend it all works as one package.
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gunplagirl posted...

There's really no difference between cis or trans women

We all know this to be false. There is a difference.

For this subject of conversation specifically, we know that people who are born as men have advantages in sports.

If you want to talk outside of sports, then there's still a difference there too. Put a CIS woman next to a trans-woman and let people guess which is which. See what happens. Then tell me there's no difference. People can tell if someone is transgender just by looking at them.
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Asherlee10 posted...

That_Happened posted...

Asherlee10 posted...

What elements of men make them better athletes than women (in most cases)? Is it the testosterone? The bone structure? The muscle ratio?

Puberty plays an enormous role. But yeah, muscle, testosterone.

So, when someone transitions from MtF do they lose that muscle tone and testosterone level that would give that person the advantage?

No they don't

Steve Nick posted...

gunplagirl posted...

There's really no difference between cis or trans women

We all know this to be false. There is a difference.

For this subject of conversation specifically, we know that people who are born as men have advantages in sports.

If you want to talk outside of sports, then there's still a difference there too. Put a CIS woman next to a trans-woman and let people guess which is which. See what happens. Then tell me there's no difference.

"Put a tan white woman next to a mulatto and see if anyone can tell difference."
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gunplagirl posted...

Steve Nick posted...

gunplagirl posted...

There's really no difference between cis or trans women

We all know this to be false. There is a difference.

For this subject of conversation specifically, we know that people who are born as men have advantages in sports.

If you want to talk outside of sports, then there's still a difference there too. Put a CIS woman next to a trans-woman and let people guess which is which. See what happens. Then tell me there's no difference.

"Put a tan white woman next to a mulatto and see if anyone can tell difference."

I really don't see what point you're trying to make here.
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Delirious_Beard posted...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4pTejRBxSc

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Steve Nick posted...

hockeybub89 posted...

Steve Nick posted...

hockeybub89 posted...

Dustin1280 posted...

gunplagirl posted...

Dustin1280 posted...

http://www.wnd.com/2017/03/female-athletes-crushed-by-women-who-were-once-men/

There is more data towards their being a definite problem, then not.

In many of the cases they usually beat the previous record by a HUGE margin.

Examples without science or numbers (ie hormone levels) to validate it does not actually count as data. It still needs to be interpreted by people with regard to hormone levels and the like.

BTW bone density is moot because weight classes, how do they work.

I would rather trust my examples than your "i don't need sources."

Your FEELINGS are not more important then fairness

Sports aren't fair. If you are better, you win more. Michael Phelps was born naturally superior to everyone as a swimmer and largely destroyed everyone in his prime. I also think it is funny people suddenly care about women's sports.

The point of women's sports is to allow a biologically inferior demographic to participate in a fun activity.

If sports weren't segregated by gender, women would never get to play sports.

They are segregated by gender. This sprinter is of the same gender as her fellow competitors.

There are undoubtedly more trans female athletes competing out there than those who are winning state championships. They aren't all winning or even succeeding. I was also unaware the only way to have fun in an individual sport was by winning a state championship or that the majority cis women are somehow barred from competing.

They aren't of the same gender. One is female. One is a transgender female. They're not the same thing.

The reason transgenders aren't winning all of female competitions is simple. There aren't many trans people, so there's likely to be less total number of talented trans athletes. Take for example, a school of 2000 people. 1000 boys, 1000 girls. Let's say 1 in 1000, as a rough guess, is transgender. So, take one RANDOM boy from that school. Is he always going to be better than the most talented female athlete? Of course not. By sheer numbers, it's 1000 against 1. The male, or transgender female, if you prefer, is going to have a tremendous advantage, but still might be an inferior athlete.

There are only two genders and those numbers are my point. There are less trans athletes and only a handful of them are superior athletes.
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Steve Nick posted...

gunplagirl posted...

Steve Nick posted...

gunplagirl posted...

There's really no difference between cis or trans women

We all know this to be false. There is a difference.

For this subject of conversation specifically, we know that people who are born as men have advantages in sports.

If you want to talk outside of sports, then there's still a difference there too. Put a CIS woman next to a trans-woman and let people guess which is which. See what happens. Then tell me there's no difference.

"Put a tan white woman next to a mulatto and see if anyone can tell difference."

I really don't see what point you're trying to make here.

You really can't clock all trans women like you think you can. Not all trans women look alike. To even suggest they do is pretty clear discrimination.
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Steve Nick posted...

gunplagirl posted...

Steve Nick posted...

gunplagirl posted...

There's really no difference between cis or trans women

We all know this to be false. There is a difference.

For this subject of conversation specifically, we know that people who are born as men have advantages in sports.

If you want to talk outside of sports, then there's still a difference there too. Put a CIS woman next to a trans-woman and let people guess which is which. See what happens. Then tell me there's no difference.

"Put a tan white woman next to a mulatto and see if anyone can tell difference."

I really don't see what point you're trying to make here.

They're trying to make you look like a racist so they can wholesale write off everything you say rather than engage with your actual argument.
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clearaflagrantj posted...

I'm going to identify as a woman and beat the shit out of female UFC fighters.

To late, Fallon Fox beat you to the punch.
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gunplagirl posted...

Steve Nick posted...

gunplagirl posted...

Steve Nick posted...

gunplagirl posted...

There's really no difference between cis or trans women

We all know this to be false. There is a difference.

For this subject of conversation specifically, we know that people who are born as men have advantages in sports.

If you want to talk outside of sports, then there's still a difference there too. Put a CIS woman next to a trans-woman and let people guess which is which. See what happens. Then tell me there's no difference.

"Put a tan white woman next to a mulatto and see if anyone can tell difference."

I really don't see what point you're trying to make here.

You really can't clock all trans women like you think you can. Not all trans women look alike. To even suggest they do is pretty clear discrimination.

Sometimes you can, but yeah you are right to some extent. Also, people start seeing all kinds of "obvious" differences when you let them know someone is trans.

If I found a ugly manly cis woman and told people she was trans, it would suddenly be so obvious. Vice versa for a well transitioned trans woman.
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gunplagirl posted...

Steve Nick posted...

gunplagirl posted...

Steve Nick posted...

gunplagirl posted...

There's really no difference between cis or trans women

We all know this to be false. There is a difference.

For this subject of conversation specifically, we know that people who are born as men have advantages in sports.

If you want to talk outside of sports, then there's still a difference there too. Put a CIS woman next to a trans-woman and let people guess which is which. See what happens. Then tell me there's no difference.

"Put a tan white woman next to a mulatto and see if anyone can tell difference."

I really don't see what point you're trying to make here.

You really can't clock all trans women like you think you can. Not all trans women look alike. To even suggest they do is pretty clear discrimination.

I didn't say that all trans women look alike. I said that you can tell the difference between a biological female and a biological male. Some transgender women attempt to hide those differences, and do so quite well in some cases, but to say that they're indistinguishable from biological women is ridiculous.

Their faces, hair, voice, and body shape are all huge indicators of what their original gender is. It's exceptionally rare that someone can pass for the other gender.
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Ah, here we have it. A guy who thinks he can spot a trans woman in a group of cis women without fail and vice versa.
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Why is anyone responding seriously to gunplagirl or hockeybub's trolling?
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Not sure how the topic stopped being about sports and started being about the ability to pick trans people out of a crowd
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ThePrinceFish posted...

Not sure how the topic stopped being about sports and started being about the ability to pick trans people out of a crowd

Somewhere around the time that one poster started asserting that transwomen are identical to CIS women.
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thelovefist posted...

Why is anyone responding seriously to gunplagirl or hockeybub's trolling?

Defending trans women isn't trolling
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thelovefist posted...

Why is anyone responding seriously to gunplagirl or hockeybub's trolling?

I know GameFAQs is a pointless waste of time, but I can't imagine pathetic people like you wasting it to post NOTHING of any substance ever.
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gunplagirl posted...

thelovefist posted...

Why is anyone responding seriously to gunplagirl or hockeybub's trolling?

Defending trans women isn't trolling

You're not defending transwomen. You're just asserting things that aren't true.

Nobody here has attacked transwomen.
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Asherlee10 posted...

thelovefist posted...

Why is anyone responding seriously to gunplagirl or hockeybub's trolling?

Neither one of them is trolling. They just have perspectives you don't' agree with.

Yeah ok
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Steve Nick posted...

gunplagirl posted...

thelovefist posted...

Why is anyone responding seriously to gunplagirl or hockeybub's trolling?

Defending trans women isn't trolling

You're not defending transwomen. You're just asserting things that aren't true.

Nobody here has attacked transwomen.

It's you who is stating things that are wrong but I get why you'd think I'm wrong.
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