Current Events > What explains the hyper masculinity in the black community?

(+) Yeah! (+)

Just wondering. I did hear black and Hispanic men as well have huge amounts of testosterone, that plus socioeconomic factors I guess apply too like say you're raised to be brave and if you feel like per set that a racist for instance will attack you then you just fight back, as simple as that.

•I still want to hear your theories

Already 2 posts deleted? Come on guys, I am asking nicely.

Cause black men have been emasculated in their homes for centuries and the hypermasculinity is a way to maintain social standing.
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3rd_Best_Master posted...

Cause black men have been emasculated in their homes for centuries and the hypermasculinity is a way to maintain social standing.

Really? Interesting, where did you watch or read that?

Having grown up in that culture I can offer at least a little insight.

- Part of it is deeply ingrained gender roles. Eg what it is acceptable for a man to do. Bottoms in a gay couple are looked down on much much more than tops, because at least the top is doing the fucking and not getting fucked.

- Another part is definitely socioeconomic. In that level of poverty there isn't a lot that's in your control, but sex is. Giving up that control by "taking it" is considered bad.

The above combined with the culture of hyper masculinity propogated by gang culture and rap music just makes it very untenable. One of the worst insults you can say to someone from these areas would be to question their dad's sexuality.
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YoshiGitorocker posted...

3rd_Best_Master posted...

Cause black men have been emasculated in their homes for centuries and the hypermasculinity is a way to maintain social standing.

Really? Interesting, where did you watch or read that?

I don't recall where.
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We're just cool like that
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This also correlates with poverty among white people, and both these things correlate positively with poor education. So if there's a connection here it's got more to do with money and education (or opportunity) than it does race.
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It's the result of 70% of the community not having fathers to teach them proper masculinity, thus needing to learn it from other adolescents.
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meestermj posted...

Having grown up in that culture I can offer at least a little insight.

- Part of it is deeply ingrained gender roles. Eg what it is acceptable for a man to do. Bottoms in a gay couple are looked down on much much more than tops, because at least the top is doing the fucking and not getting fucked.

- Another part is definitely socioeconomic. In that level of poverty there isn't a lot that's in your control, but sex is. Giving up that control by "taking it" is considered bad.

The above combined with the culture of hyper masculinity propogated by gange culture and rap music just makes it very untenable. One of the worst insults you can say to someone from these areas would be to question their dad's sexuality.

You misspelled gang BTW.

YoshiGitorocker posted...

meestermj posted...

Having grown up in that culture I can offer at least a little insight.

- Part of it is deeply ingrained gender roles. Eg what it is acceptable for a man to do. Bottoms in a gay couple are looked down on much much more than tops, because at least the top is doing the fucking and not getting fucked.

- Another part is definitely socioeconomic. In that level of poverty there isn't a lot that's in your control, but sex is. Giving up that control by "taking it" is considered bad.

The above combined with the culture of hyper masculinity propogated by gange culture and rap music just makes it very untenable. One of the worst insults you can say to someone from these areas would be to question their dad's sexuality.

You misspelled gang BTW.

I'm posting from my phone, forgive my one typo in my multi paragraph post.
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meestermj posted...

YoshiGitorocker posted...

meestermj posted...

Having grown up in that culture I can offer at least a little insight.

- Part of it is deeply ingrained gender roles. Eg what it is acceptable for a man to do. Bottoms in a gay couple are looked down on much much more than tops, because at least the top is doing the fucking and not getting fucked.

- Another part is definitely socioeconomic. In that level of poverty there isn't a lot that's in your control, but sex is. Giving up that control by "taking it" is considered bad.

The above combined with the culture of hyper masculinity propogated by gange culture and rap music just makes it very untenable. One of the worst insults you can say to someone from these areas would be to question their dad's sexuality.

You misspelled gang BTW.

I'm posting from my phone, forgive my one typo in my multi paragraph post.

Nah man, no worries. I agree autocorrect can be sometimes crap.

3rd_Best_Master posted...

Cause black men have been emasculated in their homes for centuries and the hypermasculinity is a way to maintain social standing.

This is completely wrong.

The Admiral posted...

It's the result of 70% of the community not having fathers to teach them proper masculinity, thus needing to learn it from other adolescents.

This is completely right. Without a father in the home, boys will need to find an "alpha male" figure or assert their own standing.

hyper masculinity?

I mean some wear that skirt-like thing over their pants, or ear-rings or a fake-diamond earring, lots of jewerly, braid their hair, etc.
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Can I see the source that say 70% of the people in the community don't have fathers at home?
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The Admiral posted...

It's the result of 70% of the community not having fathers to teach them proper masculinity, thus needing to learn it from other adolescents.

yeah somebody wasn't around to teach them how to do real manly things such as posting racist stuff in internet message boards or have a poster of cheeto or spencer above their bed like addy here
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YoshiGitorocker posted...

Nah man, no worries. I agree autocorrect can be sometimes crap.

Hakuna matata mang, I went back and edited it.
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YookaLaylee posted...

Can I see the source that say 70% of the people in the community don't have fathers at home?

I bet it's a "stormy" source lol
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what is ROD's problem? seriously
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YookaLaylee posted...

Can I see the source that say 70% of the people in the community don't have fathers at home?

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2013/jul/29/don-lemon/cnns-don-lemon-says-more-72-percent-african-americ/
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ROD posted...

hyper masculinity?

I mean some wear that skirt-like thing over their pants, or ear-rings or a fake-diamond earring, lots of jewerly, braid their hair, etc.

That's still isn't as impacting, we whites already have dudes on nail polish, a somewhat feminine voice, loads of them already have red ponytails, I swear I even saw one at the gym shaving its legs.

MakoReizei posted...

what is ROD's problem? seriously

Whenever he is unable to retaliate against a post that triggered him, he responds by projecting his own racism onto others.

The Admiral posted...

YookaLaylee posted...

Can I see the source that say 70% of the people in the community don't have fathers at home?

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2013/jul/29/don-lemon/cnns-don-lemon-says-more-72-percent-african-americ/

Interesting
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Poorer and more conservative cultures tends to be more hyper masculine. You can see the same thing in the rural west and south, middle east, and south America. It just so happens that the black community as a whole is the poorest on average, have strong conservative roots, and have lower than average rates of education. It isn't a surprise when you look at it from that perspective. Don't pay attention to the fucking idiots saying it is because of daddy issues. They're white men knowing absolutely nothing about black men problems and just want to be edgy.

YookaLaylee posted...

The Admiral posted...

YookaLaylee posted...

Can I see the source that say 70% of the people in the community don't have fathers at home?

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2013/jul/29/don-lemon/cnns-don-lemon-says-more-72-percent-african-americ/

Interesting

Man gee Luis, I really hope the black community can get some help soon.

Annihilated posted...

MakoReizei posted...

what is ROD's problem? seriously

Whenever he is unable to retaliate against a post that triggered him, he responds by projecting his own racism onto others.

Plus, he's one of the worst shitposters/trolls on CE, which is saying something.

Teddytalks posted...

Poorer and more conservative cultures tends to be more hyper masculine. You can see the same thing in the rural west and south, middle east, and south America. It just so happens that the black community as a whole is the poorest on average, have strong conservative roots, and have lower than average rates of education. It isn't a surprise when you look at it from that perspective. Don't pay attention to the fucking idiots saying it is because of daddy issues. They're white men knowing absolutely nothing about black men problems and just want to be edgy.

So then how many black people are actually democrats in America then?

YoshiGitorocker posted...

Teddytalks posted...

Poorer and more conservative cultures tends to be more hyper masculine. You can see the same thing in the rural west and south, middle east, and south America. It just so happens that the black community as a whole is the poorest on average, have strong conservative roots, and have lower than average rates of education. It isn't a surprise when you look at it from that perspective. Don't pay attention to the fucking idiots saying it is because of daddy issues. They're white men knowing absolutely nothing about black men problems and just want to be edgy.

So then how many black people are actually democrats in America then?

Not to many honestly. They only vote Democrat because the KKK vote Republican.

Asherlee10 posted...

hollow_shrine posted...

This also correlates with poverty among white people, and both these things correlate positively with poor education. So if there's a connection here it's got more to do with money and education (or opportunity) than it does race.

I realize that I'm about to say something that is just confirmation bias, but this makes sense now that I am thinking about poor people in general, and not just by race.

Hypermasculine men do seem to be from low socioeconomic areas.

However, it doesn't explain 100% of the hypermasculine men in the world. Theories on the middle to high income male club goers, for example?

Being from a single-parent family is the greatest predictor of future poverty (and criminal activity), so income is the secondary cause here.

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/harvard-study-single-parents-a-hindrance-to-social-mobility/article/2542841
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I am black. I had a father who stuck with my mom and raised me and my siblings. Most other black families.i knew growing up was missing a father at home. When you dont have a male role model which is what a father naturally is you learn what it means to be a man from less then ideal sources. It often ends up over exaggerating things like aggression and under exaggerating things like remaining calm under pressure. Banging chicks is manly, providing for your wife and children...not so much.
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The Admiral posted...

It's the result of 70% of the community not having fathers to teach them proper masculinity, thus needing to learn it from other adolescents.

I'm curious. Where is this number from? Also, what makes you think they are necessarily learning it from other teens? I know plenty of upstanding black men who learned how to be men from their mothers

EDIT: It appears you did post a link. It does say, however, that number children born out of wedlock and doesn't necessarily mean they have no contact with their father, so your statement was rather heavy handed
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The Admiral posted...

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2013/jul/29/don-lemon/cnns-don-lemon-says-more-72-percent-african-americ/

That says "out of wedlock" births. That doesn't say that they "don't have fathers" as you stated. Just because you're not married doesn't mean you don't take care of your kids: in fact, your own link states that.

Lemon did overreach somewhat when he went on to say that the 72 percent "out of wedlock" figure "means absent fathers." The 72 percent figure refers to children who are born to women who are not married; it would, however, include unmarried couples in which the father is present.

We should note that this data doesn’t suggest that 67 percent of African-American children have no contact with their father (or a father figure), but rather that their father does not live in the same household with them.

I'm not disagreeing that children without fathers is a big deal in the black community, but as usual you're taking a statistic and trying to make it say way more than it actually says.
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That_Happened posted...

That says "out of wedlock" births. That doesn't say that they "don't have fathers" as you stated. Just because you're not married doesn't mean you don't take care of your kids: in fact, your own link states that.

Read the whole article.
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Asherlee10 posted...

hollow_shrine posted...

This also correlates with poverty among white people, and both these things correlate positively with poor education. So if there's a connection here it's got more to do with money and education (or opportunity) than it does race.

I realize that I'm about to say something that is just confirmation bias, but this makes sense now that I am thinking about poor people in general, and not just by race.

Hypermasculine men do seem to be from low socioeconomic areas.

However, it doesn't explain 100% of the hypermasculine men in the world. Theories on the middle to high income male club goers, for example?

By club you like country clubs and such?
I would regard that as being a standard that old money has held for a very long time, as established by old customs. You just didn't hang out with your wives and women as they had nothing to offer a man, and you had to project strength as weakness of character means loss of respect

The Admiral posted...

That_Happened posted...

That says "out of wedlock" births. That doesn't say that they "don't have fathers" as you stated. Just because you're not married doesn't mean you don't take care of your kids: in fact, your own link states that.

Read the whole article.

I did. Read my whole post.
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No dads
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3rd_Best_Master posted...

Cause black men have been emasculated in their homes for centuries and the hypermasculinity is a way to maintain social standing.

Its a little bit of this answer

So you have to understand the history behind masculinity and race to really understand the narrative...
Africans have always been portrayed as hypersexual by western culture, especially when it come to their genitalia

Essentially, 60 years ago you have a time where often depictions of Black people were not to flattering, often depicting black men as goofy, promiscuous, and dominated by their "mammy" like Black wives...

Around the 60s-70s we see the black power movement, and from this we being to see the hyper aggressive black male.

This is the Black Panther militant Black male, one who, instead of passively fighting racism with like of guilt imposed through juxtaposition (Martin Luther King), we see Black who instead wish to actively fight their attackers (Malcom X).

This is often where we here the phrase "Boi" come from, where in which there was a huge stereotype of white cops calling black men "boy", as a way to emasculate them. This was sorta as symbolic for black male, as both the institution of racism both oppressing them economically but also, oppressing their masculinity, which is seen as "monstrous"

However something crazy happen in the 80s-90s... With the rise of feminism slowly coming about, hypersexualized male culture was kinda on the downturn, then suddenly the same black criminals and tough guys who were feared became romanticized through music, and (sorry to say this) White people at this up. Now we have a weird crossroad where some people want blacks to be this hypersexualized race, and are often frequently looking for these more aggressive characteristics.

Wow that is the short version of it.

TLDR? Black people, responding to perceived emasculation, turned to hypermasculinity as a well to rebel. However, eventually this "rebellion", like most counter-cultural things, became rather popular, and black people exist in a America where in which being the toughest, most hypersexual, most ripped black dude, might come with a lot of prestige. I mean look at porn. Look at sports. Look at the idea of just meeting an angry big black dude in a dark alleyway. Even worse, this is now the standard for black people, so even black people will push the standard to be black enough onto people of their own race, even thought the standard of what is black was created mostly by whites...

Wow can't believe I actually cared enough to post this...
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Teddytalks posted...

Asherlee10 posted...

hollow_shrine posted...

This also correlates with poverty among white people, and both these things correlate positively with poor education. So if there's a connection here it's got more to do with money and education (or opportunity) than it does race.

I realize that I'm about to say something that is just confirmation bias, but this makes sense now that I am thinking about poor people in general, and not just by race.

Hypermasculine men do seem to be from low socioeconomic areas.

However, it doesn't explain 100% of the hypermasculine men in the world. Theories on the middle to high income male club goers, for example?

By club you like country clubs and such?
I would regard that as being a standard that old money has held for a very long time, as established by old customs. You just didn't hang out with your wives and women as they had nothing to offer a man, and you had to project strength as weakness of character means loss of respect

I'm pretty sure he's talking about night clubs
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YookaLaylee posted...

Teddytalks posted...

Asherlee10 posted...

hollow_shrine posted...

This also correlates with poverty among white people, and both these things correlate positively with poor education. So if there's a connection here it's got more to do with money and education (or opportunity) than it does race.

I realize that I'm about to say something that is just confirmation bias, but this makes sense now that I am thinking about poor people in general, and not just by race.

Hypermasculine men do seem to be from low socioeconomic areas.

However, it doesn't explain 100% of the hypermasculine men in the world. Theories on the middle to high income male club goers, for example?

By club you like country clubs and such?
I would regard that as being a standard that old money has held for a very long time, as established by old customs. You just didn't hang out with your wives and women as they had nothing to offer a man, and you had to project strength as weakness of character means loss of respect

I'm pretty sure he's talking about night clubs

Dunno. I don't goto clubs and know nothing about them

YookaLaylee posted...

Teddytalks posted...

Asherlee10 posted...

hollow_shrine posted...

This also correlates with poverty among white people, and both these things correlate positively with poor education. So if there's a connection here it's got more to do with money and education (or opportunity) than it does race.

I realize that I'm about to say something that is just confirmation bias, but this makes sense now that I am thinking about poor people in general, and not just by race.

Hypermasculine men do seem to be from low socioeconomic areas.

However, it doesn't explain 100% of the hypermasculine men in the world. Theories on the middle to high income male club goers, for example?

By club you like country clubs and such?
I would regard that as being a standard that old money has held for a very long time, as established by old customs. You just didn't hang out with your wives and women as they had nothing to offer a man, and you had to project strength as weakness of character means loss of respect

I'm pretty sure he's talking about night clubs

Also let's be honest, all some poor men have is their masculine appeal... Their not going to charm a woman with their status or their lack of funds, but in a way, they can never take masculinity from you. I work with homeless people and its this out the wazoo. Alot of these men act like totally perves from the 50s, they hit on all of the female employees, and frequently say inappropriate things to them. This is all they have
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Interesting, interesting. I like the thoughts and theories. Explains very well as to why someone like MLK went with saying "The man is not equal" rather than "people". Keep it up though. I been wanting to research such a thing of a culture for a long time believe it or not.

In fact I think this also explains as well the very big supposed problem of homophobia with the black community as well, that plus I heard religious brainwashing is another tactic.

What explains why some white CEmen make disingenuous topics like these regularly but you hardly see the reverse?

I mean, what is really interesting is how historical dissonance plays such a huge role in perceived behavior.

I'm a black guy who live in a college town, and the one things that always gets me is white women with black fetishes. Like the white women who not only like black men, but like the black men that are the product of oppressive economic and social structures that many would argue were put in place by white people. Unfortunately there is quite a bit of reputation to be had from being masculinely hyper, thus some blacks live the lie.

You actually see the disconnect when you look at feminism in the black race. For a while in the past, the idea was that the black family was far more important than black women. Thus many black women "took one for the team" and became extremely submissive inorder to promote stronger male figures in black culture. It's hard to say when this backfired, but eventually historical dissonance kicked in, and now, you literally can't take the hood out of the brother.,,
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ProtoManSPx posted...

What explains why some white CEmen make disingenuous topics like these regularly but you hardly see the reverse?

I think that it is up to the poster in the topic to keep in genuine.

I mean, I usually lurk, but it's about time that CE actually looked at race relation with some nuance, instead of this weird narrative, where people constantly post the same ideas, and then try to out smack talk each other in order to go get points from the audience of CE that watches and decides the winner.
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Asherlee10 posted...

I wonder what that deleted post was.

Me too.