Board 8 > Do you subscribe to this view of American sociological issues?

(+) Yeah! (+)

http://www.salon.com/2012/07/01/southern_values_revived/

as easy as it is for me to think "yes, this makes sense, because they're evil", my logical mind is telling me it's probably not this simple or possibly even true.

thoughts?

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Coincidence that a self-avowed Communist is so against democracy and traditional marriage? - SephG after misquoting me hilariously

what the hell is a trained social futurist

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From: dethfdddddh | #002

what the hell is a trained social futurist

well I just read some sci fi action novel where some of the protagonists were members of a fictional "Department of the Future"

so maybe it's like that

unfortunately the book didn't make it very clear of what they actually did either.

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Coincidence that a self-avowed Communist is so against democracy and traditional marriage? - SephG after misquoting me hilariously

what the hell is a trained social futurist

what part is hard to get

it is a futurist that focuses on the social aspects

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no, not like the art movement.

its basically a social scientist that focuses on predicting the future. you probably get a degree in social science or history or something like that.

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CycloRaptor posted...

what the hell is a trained social futurist

what part is hard to get

it is a futurist that focuses on the social aspects

Like the Italian art movement?

More importantly, how are you trained in it? Is there a BA in Futurism?

This article paints an extremely rosy picture of the North and Puritanism, by the way. It also doesn't take into account that there are other regional cultures besides North and South.

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Fast Falcon ate my bracket for dinner in the guru contest.

I mean, no reference to Anne Hutchinson and the formation of Rhode Island?

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Fast Falcon ate my bracket for dinner in the guru contest.

I disagree with her saying that the South has only now been "winning". There were other times when they were dominant, notably during reconstruction.

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I stopped reading when it started talking about how modern American politics came from some historical background. Today's politics tries extremely hard to ignore history, so that's really not right.

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_foolmo_
'and out of the blue and completely unprovoked came foolmo and his insult' - Anagram

Interesting read. Lots of good points. Maybe a touch dramatic in its wording but it doesn't give much reason to reject it. Needs to be entertaining too, after all. Thanks for the post.
From: Iamdead7 | #001

http://www.salon.com/2012/07/01/southern_values_revived/
as easy as it is for me to think "yes, this makes sense, because they're evil", my logical mind is telling me it's probably not this simple or possibly even true.

They'd call it "justified selfishness" or "earned power". That it's right to dominate others because you "worked hard to get there" is the con. Or just go the "God must have allowed me to have this situation" route.


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3DS Friend Code: 5198-2413-4579 ---> Gregore on Icarus (many odd symbols in it)

From: foolmor0n | #010

I stopped reading when it started talking about how modern American politics came from some historical background. Today's politics tries extremely hard to ignore history, so that's really not right.

Completely false. Every side has their own rich history of heroes and villains. Reagan or JFK. History always has a role to play, and every viewpoint comes from history either directly or through interaction, rather than through "random" processes. So, I'd have to completely disagree with you.

How we are marketed to by political parties are sound bite snippets (commercials or quotes or video segments) showing little information or history, yes. But the perspectives, goals, and operations of the various factions are tightly tied up in historical notions.

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3DS Friend Code: 5198-2413-4579 ---> Gregore on Icarus (many odd symbols in it)

Well, the article is considerably biased. Does anyone wonder if the author likes the Southern Elite?

That being said, it makes some good points and some weaker ones. First, it's rather cloudy. How exactly do the Southern Elite manipulate so much? If you're actually worried about this to the point of counteracting it, understanding the how would be very important.
Also, towards the end it says that the Southern Mentality is now everywhere which means it's not really currently a Southern Mentality. It helps to name it and gives us a comparison, but he could have rewritten the article focusing on hierarchal ideals rather than sticking a strong mental connection between bigotry and the South.
As one who's lived in the South most of my life, I can understand part of what he means, but at the same time it's a bit farfetched. Where I'm from racism is still an issue but it's progressed far from what it was in the 60s. I don't live there anymore so I can't say if racism is on the rise, but I may ask around.

I guess my biggest question is if someone could write this from a conservative perspective, declaring that conservatism has won some battles but is likely to lose the war and cost us humanity.

I don't like it when people are obviously trying to sell me an idea, I prefer to browse and ponder, and come to my own conclusion.

@CHAMP
Bias doesn't necessarily mean wrong. It's really hard to have no bias, and even harder to write an interesting article most people would want to read without taking any kind of stance on the issue. Too on the fence makes for really dry writing.

As for how, it's basically just a matter of money. It was explained, loosely, as a shift in methods of production and wealth-generation from being centralized in the "left zone" to being more widespread due to transport infrastructure of highways. Wealth is all you need to secure power and influence. Once you have that you can have your own media outlets in radio, television, print, etc. Set up universities with a clear political leaning. Then just publicize away. It's not too complicated to imagine the "how".
Wealth brings power. The southern elites were elite, after all. Very rich. Easy to be so with such a high level of exploitation.

Does that help?

As for your finishing question... not really. There's a different definition of humanity. It's not concerned with the "good of all" under the conservative view. Survival of the fittest. So it doesn't matter if the "weak fall". Racism on the rise? Yeah that might be dramatic. I mostly see anti-immigrant fears. *shrug*

Everyone is always selling you an idea. You can't fault people for that. You bring the solution by browsing the different ideas.You can't expect one person to give you all the different views. Even if they could, you can't totally trust that one person still.
So don't be too angry in feeling something's being "sold to you". There's no other way.
Unless you love flaccid arguments with nothing to say.

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3DS Friend Code: 5198-2413-4579 ---> Gregore on Icarus (many odd symbols in it)

I agree with the basic principle that the article espouses, even if it does approach things from a pejorative perspective. People talk about how our public discourse has coarsened/become more partisan/angry, etc. but really I think that the elements that they are describing have really been there all along, but that the kind of libertarian hierarchical culture that unleashed them has always been centered in the South, which was "banished" from culture/society for the 100 years or so after the Civil War. I totally agree with the article that the Civil War might have been won militarily, but the deeper issues at play were never fully resolved, and might not ever be as long as the United States stays unified.

While some commentators point out that the explosion of this new hierarchical culture can be linked to neoliberalism, which itself came out of the North, I don't think that refutes this argument. The "Southern" culture might be most prevalent in the South, but that doesn't mean that it can't have isolated supporters in the North before the rise of the Sun Belt. Even so, it does make one wonder why the North embraced this kind of culture in the 1920's, if it's supposedly so against their worldview.

I should also note that this kind of mentality is separated geographically to most people, because that's how it's grouped when you look at attitudes amongst white men. It doesn't make note of the fact that women overall seem to embrace the Yankee worldview much more than men do, which makes any kind of approaching cultural split/crisis much harder to contain.

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Coincidence that a self-avowed Communist is so against democracy and traditional marriage? - SephG after misquoting me hilariously