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Topic	Ukraine War Topic Reborn Part 1
conduit 04/19/24 12:51:18 PM #86:	streamofthesky posted... They didn't shut down peace deals, Ukraine itself doesn't want a hollow peace deal that gives Russia a chance to rebuild and then attack again, since Russia breaks every peace deal when it's convenient for them and the only way to actually have peace is to defeat them decisively militarily. Exactly, that's what I mean. How else do you defeat them decisively militarily? former Secretary of Defense and CIA Director Robert Gates says in his recently published memoir: When the Soviet Union was collapsing in late 1991, [Defense Secretary Dick Cheney] wanted to see the dismemberment not only of the Soviet Union and the Russian empire but of Russia itself, so it could never again be a threat to the rest of the world. Humble_Novice posted... A thoroughly broken Russia can only mean good things for the world in general. I hear what you're saying about the 6,000 nuke situation, but how else do you permanently neutralise Russia as a global threat? Do you really think regime change would be enough given that Putin will probably just be replaced by someone just as bad if not worse? The choice that we faced in Ukraine and I'm using the past tense there intentionally was whether Russia exercised a veto over NATO involvement in Ukraine on the negotiating table or on the battlefield, said George Beebe, a former director of Russia analysis at the CIA and special adviser on Russia to former Vice President Dick Cheney. And we elected to make sure that the veto was exercised on the battlefield, hoping that either Putin would stay his hand or that the military operation would fail. In other words, if Putin wants to keep Ukraine out of NATO then we'll make him fight for it. Russia has made a potentially calamitous strategic blunder, and imo this was a part of US strategy, but tbh whether you believe the US prompted it or Putin done goofed by himself it hardly matters. I'm not sure if Ukraine can inflict a "decisive military defeat" on Russia by itself, sadly, the best we can hope for is to continue haemorrhaging Russian resources and cutting off their energy exports to collapse their economy, while supporting Ukraine to reduce Russia's overall military capacity. The problem is Putin is being re-armed by China. --- ~we are a part of the process, not instigators of its progress~ <cite>conduit posted [p:979994353] in Ukraine Wa... [t:80739820]...</cite> <quote>streamofthesky posted... </cite><quote>They didn't shut down peace deals, Ukraine itself doesn't want a hollow peace deal that gives Russia a chance to rebuild and then attack again, since Russia breaks every peace deal when it's convenient for them and the only way to actually have peace is to defeat them decisively militarily.</quote>Exactly, that's what I mean. How else do you defeat them decisively militarily? <quote>former Secretary of Defense and CIA Director Robert Gates says in his recently published memoir: When the Soviet Union was collapsing in late 1991, [Defense Secretary Dick Cheney] wanted to see the dismemberment not only of the Soviet Union and the Russian empire but of Russia itself, so it could never again be a threat to the rest of the world.</quote>Humble_Novice posted... </cite><quote> A thoroughly broken Russia can only mean good things for the world in general.</quote>I hear what you're saying about the 6,000 nuke situation, but how else do you permanently neutralise Russia as a global threat? Do you really think regime change would be enough given that Putin will probably just be replaced by someone just as bad if not worse?<quote>The choice that we faced in Ukraine and I'm using the past tense there intentionally was whether Russia exercised a veto over NATO involvement in Ukraine on the negotiating table or on the battlefield, said George Beebe, a former director of Russia analysis at the CIA and special adviser on Russia to former Vice President Dick Cheney. And we elected to make sure that the veto was exercised on the battlefield, hoping that either Putin would stay his hand or that the military operation would fail.</quote>In other words, if Putin wants to keep Ukraine out of NATO then we'll make him fight for it. Russia has made a potentially calamitous strategic blunder, and imo this was a part of US strategy, but tbh whether you believe the US prompted it or Putin done goofed by himself it hardly matters.I'm not sure if Ukraine can inflict a "decisive military defeat" on Russia by itself, sadly, the best we can hope for is to continue haemorrhaging Russian resources and cutting off their energy exports to collapse their economy, while supporting Ukraine to reduce Russia's overall military capacity. The problem is Putin is being re-armed by China. --- ~we are a part of the process, not instigators of its progress~</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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