LogFAQs > #979097453

badjay posted...

I won't deny Shandalar is probably one of the better deck builders that exist. But I wouldn't count it as a rogue lite deckbuilder. Same with pokemon TCG. Although both are great deckbuilders.

It's interesting what you think of Signs of the Sojourner, but say that Griftlands failed their landing. How did it fail? I thought it was pretty cool.

I was honestly just trying to see a gauge of roguelite deck builders that you had in mind more so than deckbuilders is why I originally asked. Not your fault, it's on me for not being clear. I've just been on a binge for roguelite deckbuilders and was curious to see what else there was. I played the ones listed so far.

Both are absolutely Rougelites. They both have you start with a generic base-line that you make better through random cards you obtain through the game until you make it to the end. The main difference between them and something like StS is that they are fully developed card games, something that isn't relevant as a part of the Rougelites as a genre (see Hearthstone's game mode for an obvious example of that as an undenyable Rougelite), and the fact that they don't force you to have a limited run and instead give you an open world to run around in. However, Shandalar doesn't have a single pre-defined aspect and is arguably a *lot* closer to Rouge than Slay the Spire is for it. It creates a randomized world for you to run around in, with randomized towns and randomized quests, and if you want to get the best stuff you have to go into randomized dungeons. If Shandalar isn't a Rougelite then literally nothing in this topic is. Pokemon TCG there is a bit better of an argument against, but considering just how many randomized elements are there if you do a limited battles run (ie. no grinding) then you are exactly ending up with the gameplay feel and style of something like StS. Just with more the ability to "extend your run" by grinding. It is as opposed to something like Card City Nights where there is no randomized power increases and everything is set in stone outside of the Triple Triad-esque card game actually playing out.

And Griftlands is so high up in my list because it *is* "pretty cool." The problems weren't enough to not make it easily a top Rougelite, just that it moved from something like the easy 2/3 slot (if they stuck the landing they would be above Pokemon TCG on the list most likely). They didn't ever flesh out the dialog-based combat and didn't flesh out the character interactions, both which were things that really needed to get a bit more juice to really make it as high as I would have hoped. As it stands there really isn't much of a point in interaction with the random townsfolk most of the time and the dialog combat doesn't feel particularly fresh or unique despite some early dev insights kind of talking about it going in an interesting direction (that they obviously didn't go through with). So yeah, 100% worth it, but it is still a bit of a let down as someone who pre-ordered it the second it was available. Signs, on the flip side, didn't have near the hype for me as it was always much smaller in scope and was more based on a unique concept, of which I thought that they did a great job in realizing. And the reason it is so much lower than Griftlands is because it isn't as good in my eyes.

And I can't say it's surprising that you would have already played all of the best ones if you're on a binge for them. Most of the best ones are recommended pretty consistently and there is definitely a pretty big gap between the top 20-30 (number pulled out of my rear) and the rest. Like, I could probably come up with some games that you haven't played, but I can't say that I would really be able to come up with one that you hadn't played *and* was actually worth playing.