LogFAQs > #977703374

adjl posted...

Damages, but doesn't destroy.

Doesn't matter. Damaging it means putting something else above it and it does destroy the gameplay fantasy. It also wouldn't gut the vast majority of these stories that would still function just fine if that section of the game was straight up removed, much less altered. If you want the boss to feel threatening, make it threatening in the gameplay. And again, getting captured and not killed by the boss already makes them far less threatening. Any story with high stakes doesn't allow for a loss.

adjl posted...

Because people like grinding to become overpowered in RPGs.

Why though? It's because they want the fantasy of their character being overpowered. Something immediately destroyed when ludonarrative dissonance shatters the illusion of agency that they had. You talk as if you know all of the people that like to be overpowered in these games, but I don't think you do. I'm pretty sure more of them are like me than you suspect.

adjl posted...

Canonically, Rex's only blades are Pyra/Mythra, Roc, and that one common wind knuckle blade he gets in chapter 2 (and also Nia, but that's a bit different). Roc doesn't have the Leaping field skill (note that every time you jump a large gap in the field, it's a combo of Wind Mastery and Leaping), and the common one's abilities are randomized and therefore non-canon, so canonically, no magic flying powers.

Ah, more of "90% of the game is non canon IN the game". It's such a stupid argument. It's not even ludonarrative dissonance at that point, it's just straight up narrative dissonance. It's even worse than non canon movies for long running series. It's more like if episodes 2-11 were non canon in a typical 12 episode season. "Ah, the audience is only expected to watch the first and last episode".

adjl posted...

If they aren't interesting, why care about them so much? Why not just skip the cutscenes and eliminate the whole issue?

That's often times not an option. Even when it is, not telling interesting stories doesn't mean not having interesting or entertaining characters. The tales series is my premier example with some of the dumbest and worst executed plots in gaming but usually really fun and interesting characters with good dynamics fleshed out through the skits. Sadly this only really applies to the party. Other than mythos from symphonia, it's hard to actually even remember who the bad guys were in a lot of these games. I know Duke was the final boss in vesperia but I don't remember at all why or what he did since the real bad guy is just a natural phenomenon that can't be directly fought. Can't remember zesterias at all or graces f. You also get captured and thrown in prison in every one of those games. Wow, it's almost as if that doesn't do a good job of establishing the bad guy as interesting.

Meanwhile I can easily remember the final boss of dark souls despite gwyn having like 5 lines in the game, all during his one and only fight.

On the other hand I remember almost all of the party members pretty well from all those tales games and outside of solaire and patches, I don't remember any NPC in dark souls.

So if the writers can't even be bothered to make good plots in these jrpgs, the least they can do is stay out of their own way, develop the party, and not cause dissonance for the player.

Xenoblade 3 is like the prime example here where if the main story was just weak and out of the way, it'd be a godlike game, but the story couldn't do that. Somehow every side story was well written and interesting endearing me to like 50 named characters and a ton of places but the main plot was a nightmare of inconsistently applied themes, poorly motivated bad guys, and so many contrivances. Also has maybe the worst boss fight in the series being very long and scripted and supposedly if you lose you have to start all over from the beginning.

I feel very similarly about the episode 11 problem in comedy anime. The authors just feel the need to end on a dramatic climax even if the strong suit of their show is in not being dramatic. The currently airing in love with the villainess is doing that right now and what a surprise the comments are full of complaints. I think the vast majority of people don't like this kind of plot element. Come to think of it, the last yuri anime I remember did the same thing. The revolutionary princess one. People didn't like it there either but the authors just can't help themselves, they have to the love interests misunderstand each other and fight as if thats the only way for a relationship to form. I'm getting off topic here though.

adjl posted...

Pneuma tells Rex that she needs to stay behind to annihilate the world tree to prevent it from destroying the world (not just saving Rex).

It was blowing up anyway. She wasn't even the only person to stay behind to do it. And honestly, yeah, if they really had to be sacrificed, it would have been better if they'd gone out together instead of completely trampling the main characters will.

You also don't need leaping and wind magic, they could just throw you. These things smack down giants, they've surely got the power. Given the moves rex makes in combat and cutscenes, I wouldn't be surprised if he could just jump the gap all by himself as well.

The bigger issue though is why make it require a sacrifice to begin with? That wasn't inherent in the problem. They didn't go up there on a suicide mission expecting to sacrifice someone. The author just made it that way at the last second to have contrived drama and then fortunately changed his mind with an even more contrived "just kidding". The themes of the game aren't about sacrifice and moving on or anything like that. It serves no purpose narratively other than to upset the viewer.

I'd also LIKE the stories to be good. Not at the cost of gameplay but theres no reason we can't have both. A lot of these stories even have interesting concepts and could be salvaged by a better writer with a better understanding of the point of a video game.

Again, tales is such a great example. Tales of vesperia has vigilante justice, a very interesting concept. The situation between Yuri and Flynn is very similar to the dynamic between lelouch and suzaku in code geass. However, rather than confronting the issue correctly and allowing Flynn to get some real by the book wins over the bad guys, the game presents a case where it's literally let a child murderer kill more children right in front of you, or take matters into your own hands. There's no dilemma. You would be downright responsible for the childrens deaths if you didn't act. And meanwhile it's shown Flynn has zero ability to affect positive change at all. This is in stark contrast to code geass where suzaku's methods actually bear some fruit making the choices of the two characters interesting.

Berseria is even worse though. It picks a fun morale dilemma to frame it's plot around. What if one of the sacrifices required to make things better was the only person you truly cared about? Could you accept their loss for the greater good, or would you seek vengeance? Do you have the right to get vengeance? Does those ends justify the means used? Well none of that matters because ACTUALLY the bad guy is secretly a genocidal maniac rendering the entire morale dilemma moot. Also all those bad things you did to get revenge happened to not actually cause a single innocent casualty and you can just take back every bad thing you did. Sickening.