Q: When you told the president that you wouldn't pursue baseless claims of fraud, was it because you were worried about your reputation?
A: No. Not at all.
Kinzinger: Mr. Clark's name was also mentioned in the White House in late December and early January, as described by a top aide to Mark Meadows, Cassidy Hutchinson.
A video of Cassidy Hutchinson is shown.
Kinzinger's questions to Jeff Rosen:
Q: After your call with president Trump on December 24th, you spoke with Mr. Clark on Decmeber 26th about his contact with the president. Can you tell us about that conversation?
A: Because I had been quizzical about why his name had come up, I had called him. I tried to explore if he would share if there was something I oughta know. There was some back and forth, and he acknowledged that shortly before Christmas, he had gone to a meeting in the oval office with he president. That of course surprised me, and I asked him how that happened. He was defensive. He said it had been unplanned. That he had been talking to someone he referred to as General Perry, but I believe it's congressman Perry. And that, unbeknownst to him, he was asked to go to a meeting. He didn't know it, but he found himself at the oval office and he was apologetic for that. I said, "Well, you didn't tell me about it, it wasn't unauthorized, and you didn't even tell me after the fact. This is not appropriate." But he was contrite. He said it had been inadvertent. He said it would not happen again, and that if anyone asked him to go to such a meeting, he would notify Rich Donoghue and me.
Q: Is there a policy that governs who can have contact throughout the White House?
A: Yes. Across many administrations for a long period of time, there is a policy that, with particular regard to criminal investigations, restricts at both the White House and in the DoJ end, those more sensitive issues tot he highest ranks. So, for criminal matters, the policy for a long time has been that only the AG and the deputy AG from the DoJ side can have conversations about criminal matters with the White House. Or, the AG and deputy AG can authorize someone for a specific item. with their permission. The idea is to make sure that the top rung of the DoJ knows about it and is in the thing and can control it and make sure only appropriate things are done.
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Rep. Kinzinger's questions to Steven Engel:
Q: From your perspective, why is it important to have a policy like what Mr. Rosen just discussed?
A: It's critical that the DoJ conducts its criminal investigations free from either the reality or even the appearance of political interference. So people can get in trouble if people at the White House are speaking with people at the DoJ. That's why the purpose of this policy is to keep these communications as infrequent and at the highest levels as possible just to make sure that people who are less careful about it and don't understand these implications, such as Mr. Clark, don't run afoul of those contact policies.