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Topic	Controversial Opinion #4: Automation
LinkPizza 04/04/21 4:15:31 PM #100:	darkknight109 posted... Again, fully automated world, money doesn't exist. Want to get into painting? A robot will make you some paints, an easel, and a palette. Baseball more your thing? A robot will make you a glove, a bat, and a ball. Board games? Musical instruments? Photography? Any "start-up" costs can be taken care of via automated labour, effectively for free. There's no proof that money won't exist. Everyone is only assuming that. But there's no proof of that at all... it's just assumptions and wishful thinking. So, until there's actual proof that money goes away, most hobbies, have some sort of startup cost... darkknight109 posted... Greed - and commerce - requires other people to have money. If I want to sell my new invention for 100 DKDollars, but no one else in the world has DKDollars, then I can't exactly charge money for it anymore. Same thing here. In a fully automated world, robots take over all the jobs. No human jobs means no human income, which ultimately means no human money. Fortunately, since money is simply recompense for human labour, this is not an issue because there is no human labour anymore. That's if it happens like that. Even now, people have already lost their jobs and have no money to pay for anything. Doesn't mean everything given for free because some people do have money. And when barely anyone has money, there will always be a few with money. Then there's the measly $500 UBI that people really want. Technically, that would be money, too. The people with money don't want to lose that power from the money. So, they'll make sure some people have money to give them. Or limit what you can have. Anything to keep that power. And currently, money is the key to that power. As long as they can make sure people have a little money when they have a lot, and keep things costing an amount, they can keep that power... And they'll do everything in their power to do that... darkknight109 posted... At the moment, yes, this is true. But you're talking about a fully automated future. We've already proved that robots can make art and games; now they just need to learn more and get better at it. They will surpass us one day and it will probably be in decades, not centuries. Nah. I don't think they'll ever surpass us. Maybe they'll catch up one day... In the race is still alive by then. But I don't see them ever getting better... darkknight109 posted... You claimed that no one would want to make games and write stories for free, which is ignoring that there are lots of people today who make games and write stories for free, largely because they find it interesting. That's why I called it a lie. That's if they still want to do it. Or have the funds to do so. And many people do it now for free to get their foot in the door to do it for money later. Meaning that many probably wouldn't do it for no reason. It like when people make a good free game on the internet, and eventually, a bunch of people play it. And now they can make a better game that cost money. Some people do it for that specific reason. Make something for free to get noticed, then make more for money... darkknight109 posted... So what is inherent in our biological grey-matter computers that allows us to come up with "original" ideas that is impossible to replicate in a sufficiently advanced AI? The fact that the AI needs something to work off of. The ones we have don't just make up anything. They require data input, then they mix it together to spit something out. The problem is they need that data input to work. That's why all the stuff that was written always seemed absurd, and a random mix of stuff... darkknight109 posted... I never claimed that it was and I'm not really sure why you went on this side-tangent, because it's not related to anything I talked about. There has to be a reason for that when putting it everywhere would make more money. So then what's the hold up on a technology that's been out for 30 years. Why would it take this long. And if self-checkout takes this long, I feel other technologies could take even longer. Like self-driving vehicles... darkknight109 posted... Sure there is. It's not like someone comes up to you and says, "Hey, this will automatically save you $5 million a year!". What you see is someone selling a product for $XX. You then need to do the research to see how reliable these products are, what the maintenance costs are, how many workers you could feasibly replace with automatons, and whether the whole effort is worth it. There's non-zero time, investiture, and effort that goes into that - if the projected savings aren't expected to be significant, the CEO probably won't bother at that point until the math changes (they may, for instance, wait for the tech to become cheaper so that the start-up costs are minimized). They seem to be saving a lot, though. The goal is to have about 468,000 installed by 2024 with $4B in the market. Now would be the best time while you can still get it before it becomes even more expensive when all stores pretty much need them. --- Official King of Kings Switch FC: 7216-4417-4511 Add Me because I'll probably add you. I'm probably the LinkPizza you'll see around. <cite>LinkPizza posted [p:952463466] in Controvers... [t:79384298]...</cite> <quote>darkknight109 posted...</cite> <quote>Again, fully automated world, money doesn't exist. Want to get into painting? A robot will make you some paints, an easel, and a palette. Baseball more your thing? A robot will make you a glove, a bat, and a ball. Board games? Musical instruments? Photography? Any "start-up" costs can be taken care of via automated labour, effectively for free.</quote> There's no proof that money won't exist. Everyone is only assuming that. But there's no proof of that at all... it's just assumptions and wishful thinking. So, until there's actual proof that money goes away, most hobbies, have some sort of startup cost... darkknight109 posted...</cite> <quote>Greed - and commerce - requires other people to have money. If I want to sell my new invention for 100 DKDollars, but no one else in the world has DKDollars, then I can't exactly charge money for it anymore. Same thing here. In a fully automated world, robots take over all the jobs. No human jobs means no human income, which ultimately means no human money. Fortunately, since money is simply recompense for human labour, this is not an issue because there is no human labour anymore.</quote> That's if it happens like that. Even now, people have already lost their jobs and have no money to pay for anything. Doesn't mean everything given for free because some people do have money. And when barely anyone has money, there will always be a few with money. Then there's the measly $500 UBI that people really want. Technically, that would be money, too. The people with money don't want to lose that power from the money. So, they'll make sure some people have money to give them. Or limit what you can have. Anything to keep that power. And currently, money is the key to that power. As long as they can make sure people have a little money when they have a lot, and keep things costing an amount, they can keep that power... And they'll do everything in their power to do that... darkknight109 posted...</cite> <quote>At the moment, yes, this is true. But you're talking about a fully automated future. We've already proved that robots can make art and games; now they just need to learn more and get better at it. They will surpass us one day and it will probably be in decades, not centuries.</quote> Nah. I don't think they'll ever surpass us. Maybe they'll catch up one day... In the race is still alive by then. But I don't see them ever getting better... darkknight109 posted...</cite> <quote>You claimed that no one would want to make games and write stories for free, which is ignoring that there are lots of people today who make games and write stories for free, largely because they find it interesting. That's why I called it a lie.</quote> That's if they still want to do it. Or have the funds to do so. And many people do it now for free to get their foot in the door to do it for money later. Meaning that many probably wouldn't do it for no reason. It like when people make a good free game on the internet, and eventually, a bunch of people play it. And now they can make a better game that cost money. Some people do it for that specific reason. Make something for free to get noticed, then make more for money... darkknight109 posted...</cite> <quote>So what is inherent in our biological grey-matter computers that allows us to come up with "original" ideas that is impossible to replicate in a sufficiently advanced AI?</quote> The fact that the AI needs something to work off of. The ones we have don't just make up anything. They require data input, then they mix it together to spit something out. The problem is they need that data input to work. That's why all the stuff that was written always seemed absurd, and a random mix of stuff... darkknight109 posted...</cite> <quote>I never claimed that it was and I'm not really sure why you went on this side-tangent, because it's not related to anything I talked about.</quote> There has to be a reason for that when putting it everywhere would make more money. So then what's the hold up on a technology that's been out for 30 years. Why would it take this long. And if self-checkout takes this long, I feel other technologies could take even longer. Like self-driving vehicles... darkknight109 posted...</cite> <quote>Sure there is. It's not like someone comes up to you and says, "Hey, this will automatically save you $5 million a year!". What you see is someone selling a product for $XX. You then need to do the research to see how reliable these products are, what the maintenance costs are, how many workers you could feasibly replace with automatons, and whether the whole effort is worth it. There's non-zero time, investiture, and effort that goes into that - if the projected savings aren't expected to be significant, the CEO probably won't bother at that point until the math changes (they may, for instance, wait for the tech to become cheaper so that the start-up costs are minimized).</quote> They seem to be saving a lot, though. The goal is to have about 468,000 installed by 2024 with $4B in the market. Now would be the best time while you can still get it before it becomes even more expensive when all stores pretty much need them. --- Official King of Kings Switch FC: 7216-4417-4511 Add Me because I'll probably add you. I'm probably the LinkPizza you'll see around.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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