LogFAQs > #949724048

Unbridled9 posted...

Because it's a question to the underlying moral framework of an atheist. If you don't believe in an objective right and wrong, good and evil, why NOT do anything that results in pleasure, self-satisfaction, and self-gain? The whole idea is that things like killing, raping, and whatnot are considered evil and wrong which is specifically why we avoid them. An atheist frequently counters that, if they need the fear of hell to avoid doing these things, they aren't good people anyways. That ignores the very fact that, in their own argument, they apply the term 'good' as being an objective thing in regards to rape and murder as well as assert that people who engage in such things are, effectively, morally wrong. However in an atheistic viewpoint a term like 'good' and 'evil' and even 'moral' cannot apply. We view human sacrifice as being wrong yet the Aztecs engaged in it and saw no problem with it. We see slavery as morally wrong yet many civilizations throughout history saw it as morally acceptable. Who is to say that such a thing can be objectively classified as 'wrong' and that said civilizations were wrong if we cannot objectively classify things as being morally right or wrong? It's all subjective. At BEST you can claim that such things are considered wrong by modern society and modern understandings but this ignores that said society and understanding (especially western society and understanding) is heavily based upon Christian understandings and morality.

So theists constantly bring it up because an atheist has no actual counter to it because their only reasons for such actions being unacceptable are either subjective (and thusly not applicable to other cultures), based on a cultural viewpoint heavily influenced by religion, or containing a belief that morality is something beyond what can be controlled by humans which would put it in the realm of the divine or at least religious.

In short refuting it means accepting that there is an objective right and wrong above human influence which is inherently against an atheistic position.

I'm not even an atheist and I know morals don't come from a higher power, they were made by people (usually in conjunction with their religion) because it helped keep the species alive. You can't form society without some rules, and well before society came along we still lived in groups, which requires some level of trust to others in the group. Its in the best interest of the group that murder and theft and other such things aren't allowed, religion brings in more variables like ritualistic sacrifice which, while it looks like murder, usually isn't seen that way by the people that do it.

Religion usually pops up for a few reasons, and it's related to morals but not the cause. Hell you can see fucked up morals in most religions because they were started at a time where fucked up stuff (by our advanced understanding) was prevalent in different ways across the world, but they also have good stories on the things they got right.

---

Muscles
Chicago Bears | Chicago Blackhawks | Chicago Bulls | Chicago Cubs | NIU Huskies