LogFAQs > #945756865

ya'll are getting so offended over what colliding said, as if he was saying that liberalism is a cult or that john oliver is a biased/false news source. he clarified 50 posts ago that isn't what he meant.

the fact is, to the fox news watchers, they do believe these things. they believe that liberal news sources are all "fake news" and they believe it is a cult. doesn't matter if it's true or not. cognitive dissonance allows basically all people who are in cults to look at other groups and say "oh, those are cults, but my thing isn't a cult, i reasoned my way into it".

that's a basic fact that has to be admitted before you can begin to change their mind. perfectchaosz's post of like "there's no way anyone could believe that! they must have been trolling!" shows the total disconnect between people. i actually read the shit that fox news viewers believe, and they genuinely believe this. you won't be able to convince them to believe otherwise unless you at least start by understanding why they think what they do. it's really easy to dismiss them as trolls or "bad faith actors" or w/e, but as this topic shows, they are real people, they are our parents who we know are otherwise capable of maturity and love, but somehow went astray. cults work because they're able to take advantage of basic human nature.

but yes, there is a difference between someone entrenched in their beliefs due to cult indoctrination vs facts. if i had to begin formulating a way to get through to these people, i'd say start with:

a) showing that you're willing to listen to them and understand their PoV. (like, really understand, not just placate) every person out there who writes them off as deplorables and allows them to believe they are the victims, entrenches them further in their beliefs, so you can't do that.

and then b) try to convince them to open a rational dialogue. remember, the fox news viewers (or other similar groups) hate "the libs" because they believe "the libs" are against free speech and open thinking. they basically believe that they are "free thinkers", and because they are "free thinkers" they are smart enough to see that all non-fox news sources are biased. i would probably try to appeal to this sense of openmindedness, and maybe say something like "okay, you believe in free thinking. i watch john oliver, which you think is all bullshit, so if we had a conversation, you'd want me to consider that maybe john oliver is lying to me. that'd help me be a better free thinker. if i'm in a liberal cult, then that cult would have convinced me that everything it says is right, and it'd be really hard for me to get out of it. is there any chance that fox news is doing the same to you? how can you be sure that isn't happening?"

i'd also just appeal to their sense of hypocrisy. they really hate that "the libs don't allow any dissenting opinion, they act like everything they say is right and you have to listen or you're a bad person", so if they start being like "fox news is right about everything, you're an idiot", you could maybe appeal to them to not be hypocritical, and ask them to show the values that they claim "the libs" don't. "you really hate that the left doesn't listen to anyone with a different opinion, so don't be like that, i have a different opinion than you, so please listen to me" etc

probably hard to get to that point though since people will generally shut down the moment their beliefs are questioned, hence why i think it'd be important to at least broach the topic in a very diplomatic way and cultivate a sense of understanding before diving in. if you can actually get them to a point though where they're willing to look at things objectively and back them up with facts, you should have the upper hand though, because as people are saying, the "liberal side" is operating based on actual facts and knowledge. they are operating based on feelings. (despite their ben shapiro rallying cry) and one of those feelings is that they feel "the left" are bullies. that's why it's important to not do things like pile on colliding for trying to explain a different PoV, these things really reinforce that belief (as you can see with certain people popping in here to be like "see, you are a cult!")

it's also important imo to acknowledge the points where the left is weak, the news networks do post false stuff sometimes, extremists do exist, etc. if you pretend your side has no flaws, they will think you are a cultist, you have to acknowledge weak points to show them that you can be an unbiased free thinker as well. (and therefore encourage them to admit their own side's weak points)

and finally, i'd say remember it's literally impossible to ever change someone's belief in one conversation, the best goal would just be to make them slightly more open to it - to make them be a bit more openminded going forward, to maybe convince them to fact check one fox news claim in the future, maybe open them up to changing their mind in the future.

i'm not an expert on this though so this is all theoretical. lol