LogFAQs > #941933453

Ruddager posted...

Yes, album sales show the power/size of your fandom. What is a fandom? A collection of people who self identify as a fan of a particular group. What do we call things that have a lot of hardcore fans? Popular. I'd easily call a group that can generate that kind of response from people more popular than one with a bigger casual listening audience that can and will stop caring at the drop of a pin.

Who had the better year in 2018? Undoubtedly Gfriend did, despite lackluster charting they were able to continue to grow their fanbase (and therefore popularity) and harnessed that popularity to hold their first concert tour. Whereas by the end of the year that Momoland released their hit song in, nobody cared about them anymore, hell even when the dog was still number 1 you would be hard pressed to find a regular Korean who knew the group name let alone anything about them. Do you think Momoland members wouldn't immediately switch careers with Gfriend if given the chance?

Yes, a member can skyrocket to fame if a group does well digitally and the public likes them. And then that member nearly unilaterally reaps the benefits of that popularity, not the group. Irene being arguably the most publically popular female idol hasn't stopped 4 of the last 5 Red Velvet songs from horribly flopping and hasn't increased the rate at which the group gets CF deals or tv appearances. And regardless of their flops no one claims Red Velvet is no longer a top group.

You say it's a mistake to bring up JYP since their girl groups typically do well digitally and with the public. But if you're seeing the head of a company that historically performs super well in that regard give a public lecture in 2018 about how moving forward their company will completely prioritize building fandom for their current and future groups while not trying to pander to the public and chase digital success, and that doesn't set off an alarm in your head about how the industry itself sees the importance of digital success and "public recognition" you're crazy. Even if other companies haven't outside said it like JYP did the fact that nobody is making girl group songs to fit the typical Korean taste anymore should be all the sign you need. There's no real argument you can make against the entire industry clearly moving away from chasing public relevance.

Yes ITZY had the highest Gaon score in 2019 for girl groups, yet if you compare to just the year prior it barely would limp into the top 10. The public IS moving away from idol music (I live here 6 months a year I see it first hand) and the companies are responding by deprioritizing pandering to them and trying to win their affection.

No sure why it matters what you see idols cry about. Idols cry when they win music shows too so is that more important than album sales? Is that now an important measure of popularity? Is Laboum more popular than IU because they beat her on a music show? Of course not.

Your entire argument seems to hinge on thinking:
1. anyone but internet dwelling Kpop stans care about arbitrary "top group" lists.

And

2. That the Korean publics reaction to a group is judge, jury, and executioner on the matter. Despite the fact that Kpop is far bigger than Korea now and there are more consumers and listeners of Kpop outside of Korea than inside of it.

Obviously both is better, no one's arguing that, but youd be a fool to choose digital success/"public relevance" over large fandom if you had to pick one. Clearly you have your opinions which aren't going to change because this is the internet after all so I will also stop there.

Okay, I'm only responding this last time because my position is being misrepresented.

This is all an argument for the long term health of a group, and you're attacking a strawman, friend.

This has never been about choosing one over the other. If you can identify where I said my position was that physical sales don't matter at all or that only digitals matter, I'd be more inclined to think these points are relevant to my position on this, but that isn't my stance.

For girl group popularity, I think physicals really matter and digitals matter more. Notice, I didn't say anything about the longevity of the group.

I brought up APink for a reason. They've sustained for a long time, even during a lull in which they had no major hits (this has changed since 2018 after they reinvented themselves the right way), thanks to their dedicated fanbase. But, I'll ask again, why do you think the members were in tears over their song hitting #1 again?

It matters. A lot. Especially to girl groups.

You're vastly underestimating the importance of digital success, and it's somewhat jarring for you to seem to want to make this about how antiquated my stance is, when there's nothing more antiquated in the music industry than physical album sales.

The digital market isn't dying; it's transforming. Melon is losing its monopoly on the download and streaming space. New platforms are rising. International streaming is becoming more relevant. The Melon market share has declined so much that they're radically changing the way their chart even functions. Case in point: they killed the real-time charts this past week to eliminate fandoms mass streaming.

Now, riddle me this: why do you think Melon took actions to kill fandoms' ability to impact their charts? It's because it's not an accurate representation of popularity or trends.

In no way could you argue GFriend had a better year than Momoland in 2018. That's absurd. GFriend has had a better career and better peaks, but 2018 wasn't a stellar year for them, whereas Momoland was everywhere.

By the way, how did GFriend solidify themselves? With three consecutive hit songs. Me Gusta Tu, Rough and than Navillera. They haven't hit those heights since then, but they haven't had to.

My argument was never that the Korean public is the only body of individuals that matter, and I don't know how you extracted that from my responses.

My factually based opinion is that girl groups benefit the most from huge hit songs, if the discussion is about their overall popularity, brand value, marketing opportunities and general relevance.

Great album sales mean a healthy fandom to support a group with touring, merchandise and other revenue streams that pay the bills more than digital sales would directly, which is why JYP is prioritizing them now.

But I'll just say this.

I've never seen a girl group flop digitally, do well with physical sales and see amazing success. Ever.

I've seen multiple girl groups have relatively pedestrian or poor album sales but still be considered one of the top groups in the industry.

Honestly, for me, it's as simple as this. What's a more reliable measure of a group's popularity?

There's two 1,000 seat concerts being held by two different groups.

One concert sells 1,000 seats to 1,000 people while the other sells 1,000 seats to one person. Do we treat that the same?

Of course not. I'm a super fan for Mamamoo. I know what we do. Now more than ever fans are bulk buying albums. To me, it's far from the best indication of a group's overall popularity and I maintain it's a fandom driven metric only.

There are boy groups that crush girl groups in album sales without being 1/4th as popular after all.

The digital landscape is changing, not going away, and it remains just as important. I've never ever seen a fandom happy with great album sales and mediocre charting (Twice: Feel Special), so if fans, non-fans and the artists themselves care so much about it, that should tell you something.

Aight, this ain't the topic for this kind of debate, but I enjoy talking about these things. I'm actually done with this.

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