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Topic	If you use rewind/save state to finish a game, did you beat it?
NBIceman 12/31/19 7:40:25 PM #323:	Lopen posted... Let me explain why they're the same to start In both cases you're circumventing a lot of the intended experience by using a game mechanic One you're outright skipping a difficult part, one you're trivializing a difficult part, or many difficult parts, to the point where you're basically no longer experiencing what that portion of the game has to offer to the player. Like when a segment of the game exists to challenge you and you are using features not in the original release to trivialize that challenge, what you're doing is removing that aspect of the game. Not unlike passwording through some difficult levels, I think. When you put it like that, I see why you would regard them as being pretty similar. To me, though, the difference between jumping straight to the end of the game and using something like savestates is that, in the latter case, you're still doing everything that would normally be involved in a full playthrough of the game. Making it easier on yourself is not the same thing as completely bypassing it. Heat Man's stage is actually a great example, because you can circumvent the entire disappearing blocks section with Item 2 if you like. That's a tool given to you by the game, the same as a rewind function is. I realize that's not a perfect one-to-one comparison, because as you said, it wasn't in the original release, but trivializing the challenge is a pretty broad term, which is why this whole debate gets so fuzzy. What about something like grinding excessively in RPGs? Or take something like the recent Fire Emblems that have a literal rewind function built in. Wouldn't it be silly if someone accused another player of not "truly" finishing Three Houses because they used it? I just don't know if it makes that much difference whether it was in the original release or not - it isn't like all games are perfectly balanced around every mechanic in their default form. There's pretty often going to be exploits of some kind or another. --- https://imgur.com/UYamul2 Spurs - Yankees - Eagles - Golden Knights <cite>NBIceman posted [p:932299663] in If you use... [t:78290078]...</cite> <quote>Lopen posted... </cite> <quote>Let me explain why they're the same to start In both cases you're circumventing a lot of the intended experience by using a game mechanic One you're outright skipping a difficult part, one you're trivializing a difficult part, or many difficult parts, to the point where you're basically no longer experiencing what that portion of the game has to offer to the player. Like when a segment of the game exists to challenge you and you are using features not in the original release to trivialize that challenge, what you're doing is removing that aspect of the game. Not unlike passwording through some difficult levels, I think.</quote>When you put it like that, I see why you would regard them as being pretty similar. To me, though, the difference between jumping straight to the end of the game and using something like savestates is that, in the latter case, you're still doing everything that would normally be involved in a full playthrough of the game. Making it easier on yourself is not the same thing as completely bypassing it. Heat Man's stage is actually a great example, because you can circumvent the entire disappearing blocks section with Item 2 if you like. That's a tool given to you by the game, the same as a rewind function is. I realize that's not a perfect one-to-one comparison, because as you said, it wasn't in the original release, but trivializing the challenge is a pretty broad term, which is why this whole debate gets so fuzzy. What about something like grinding excessively in RPGs? Or take something like the recent Fire Emblems that have a literal rewind function built in. Wouldn't it be silly if someone accused another player of not "truly" finishing Three Houses because they used it? I just don't know if it makes that much difference whether it was in the original release or not - it isn't like all games are perfectly balanced around every mechanic in their default form. There's pretty often going to be exploits of some kind or another. --- https://imgur.com/UYamul2 Spurs - Yankees - Eagles - Golden Knights</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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