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Topic	Rate the Character Day 3: Darth Vader
Panthera 09/14/17 4:16:46 PM #53:	LeonhartFour posted... But again, he's killing the guy he wanted to kill you as we speak, and he has to find another guy to take your place in a world where Jedi practically don't exist anymore, so it'll take a while. Best chance of living longer is just letting Luke die. Palpatine doesn't want to just kill Vader for the heck of it. He'd only do it to replace him with another apprentice. What use does Vader have at that point? Palpatine doesn't benefit from keeping a mangled apprentice who knows his days are numbered around. Their back stabbing contest has pretty much come to its resolution one way or another, because there's no way Vader just goes back to serving the guy after what happened, and Palpatine knows it, and Vader knows he knows it. LeonhartFour posted... I don't think those camera shots of Vader looking back and forth between Luke and Palpatine are just him measuring up his odds of survival. That makes zero sense in terms of drama and cinematic presentation. I don't know why you're arguing about "supporting evidence" when you really don't have any based on anything that actually happens in the movies. Is Vader just faking repentance as he dies to fool Luke into thinking he killed Palpatine to save him? I guess he faked it well enough to fool the Force, too...! I'm not sure how many times I have to re-iterate that I know what the intended story was before it actually registers with anyone. Have you seriously never heard of someone thinking that a fictional story was written in a way that didn't do a good job of conveying what it was trying to? I'm arguing about supporting evidence for a specific statement and directly pointing out that the self-preservation thing isn't something I'm claiming is a built in part of the story. Of the following two claims 1. Darth Vader knows that Palpatine has picked this to be the moment where he dies, and thus has every reason to know he's doomed if Palpatine wins since he (Vader) can no longer be seen as a useful follower 2. Darth Vader knows how how magic lightning will work in a scenario he's never seen before, including that when interrupting the focus of a force lightning user it doesn't disrupt the lightning but rather re-directs it to the interrupter I believe 1 has more supporting it than 2. 1 makes sense based on what we know of the characters (Palpatine disposes of apprentices this way, knows Anakin will betray him if given the chance and keeps him alive because he's useful, Anakin know all of this and is clearly not in a position to be useful), 2 is hit and miss (lightning being bad for Vader's suit adds up, but using the force requires concentration so a surprise interruption seems liable to turn the power off). I don't think the scene as intended even requires Vader to be sure that he'll die, he just needs to know he's doing something risky and not care about the risk to himself. --- We clasped our hands, our hands in praise of a conquerors right to tyranny <cite>Panthera posted [p:886602965] in Rate the C... [t:75772179]...</cite> <quote><cite>LeonhartFour posted...</cite> <quote>But again, he's killing the guy he wanted to kill you as we speak, and he has to find another guy to take your place in a world where Jedi practically don't exist anymore, so it'll take a while. Best chance of living longer is just letting Luke die. Palpatine doesn't want to just kill Vader for the heck of it. He'd only do it to replace him with another apprentice.</quote> What use does Vader have at that point? Palpatine doesn't benefit from keeping a mangled apprentice who knows his days are numbered around. Their back stabbing contest has pretty much come to its resolution one way or another, because there's no way Vader just goes back to serving the guy after what happened, and Palpatine knows it, and Vader knows he knows it. <cite>LeonhartFour posted...</cite> <quote> I don't think those camera shots of Vader looking back and forth between Luke and Palpatine are just him measuring up his odds of survival. That makes zero sense in terms of drama and cinematic presentation. I don't know why you're arguing about "supporting evidence" when you really don't have any based on anything that actually happens in the movies. Is Vader just faking repentance as he dies to fool Luke into thinking he killed Palpatine to save him? I guess he faked it well enough to fool the Force, too...!</quote> I'm not sure how many times I have to re-iterate that I know what the intended story was before it actually registers with anyone. Have you seriously never heard of someone thinking that a fictional story was written in a way that didn't do a good job of conveying what it was trying to? I'm arguing about supporting evidence for a specific statement and directly pointing out that the self-preservation thing isn't something I'm claiming is a built in part of the story. Of the following two claims 1. Darth Vader knows that Palpatine has picked this to be the moment where he dies, and thus has every reason to know he's doomed if Palpatine wins since he (Vader) can no longer be seen as a useful follower 2. Darth Vader knows how how magic lightning will work in a scenario he's never seen before, including that when interrupting the focus of a force lightning user it doesn't disrupt the lightning but rather re-directs it to the interrupter I believe 1 has more supporting it than 2. 1 makes sense based on what we know of the characters (Palpatine disposes of apprentices this way, knows Anakin will betray him if given the chance and keeps him alive because he's useful, Anakin know all of this and is clearly not in a position to be useful), 2 is hit and miss (lightning being bad for Vader's suit adds up, but using the force requires concentration so a surprise interruption seems liable to turn the power off). I don't think the scene as intended even requires Vader to be sure that he'll die, he just needs to know he's doing something risky and not care about the risk to himself. --- We clasped our hands, our hands in praise of a conquerors right to tyranny</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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