LogFAQs > #876849530

I don't care about Proudclad in vegan topics because he shows nothing but willful ignorance every time.

You "don't care" because you got spanked in previous vegan topics.

Other animals that are obligate carnivores or omnivores need meat to eat. They don't do it for sheer pleasure alone like humans do. Irrelevant argument.

Humans kill barely any animals in comparison with what happens in wild natural itself. It's a drop in the bucket, and some species only continue to exist today because they're used by humans as a source of food. That's not a moral problem, though. If killing animals for consumption was immoral, I don't see why it'd make a difference whether or not it was done by an "obligate" carnivore or omnivore. If some humans needed to eat other humans in order to survive, we wouldn't say that's morally okay.

In any case, the best way to dispel religion is evidence!

http://www.jssm.org/vol3/n3/2/v3n3-2pdf.pdf

"Animal sources provide a complete source of protein (i.e. containing all essential amino acids), whereas
vegetable sources generally lack one or more of the essential amino acids."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19678968

"Thus, a vegetarian diet is associated with a lower muscle mass index than is an omnivorous diet at the same protein intake. A good indicator of muscle mass index in women seems to be animal protein intake."

http://europepmc.org/abstract/MED/17657359

" Our results suggest that protein intake, especially from animal sources, may be associated with a better preservation of MMI. However, more research is needed to confirm our results."

http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/69/1/147.short

"Intake of dietary protein, especially from animal sources, may be associated with a reduced incidence of hip fractures in postmenopausal women."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21102327

"Recent epidemiological, isotopic and meta-analysis studies suggest that dietary protein works synergistically with calcium to improve calcium retention and bone metabolism. The recommendation to intentionally restrict dietary protein to improve bone health is unwarranted, and potentially even dangerous to those individuals who consume inadequate protein."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16373952

"Dietary proteins also enhance IGF-1, a factor that exerts positive activity on skeletal development and bone formation. Consequently, dietary proteins are as essential as calcium and vitamin D for bone health and osteoporosis prevention. Furthermore, there is no consistent evidence for superiority of vegetal over animal proteins on calcium metabolism, bone loss prevention and risk reduction of fragility fractures."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20479151

"Consumption of processed meats, but not red meats, is associated with higher incidence of CHD and diabetes mellitus. These results highlight the need for better understanding of potential mechanisms of effects and for particular focus on processed meats for dietary and policy recommendations."

Creatine is necessary, and people who consume less/no animal products get less of it. Sources follow:

https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/british-journal-of-nutrition/article/influence-of-creatine-supplementation-on-the-cognitive-functioning-of-vegetarians-and-omnivores/E2D37729902DDFA6CFC85767AD0421FC

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14600563

Carnosine is necessary and comes only from animal foods. Sources follow:

http://www.pnas.org/content/85/9/3175
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15872311
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10951108
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My biggest flaw is how logical and reasonable I am. - hockeybub89