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Topic	C/D: The far left and the far right are the exact same kind of people.
pure_temper 12/02/20 2:05:24 PM #48:	IMNOTRAGED posted... If you're capable of discerning between ideological groups and the circumstances that lead to certain events it absolutely makes a difference. Either way this really isn't an extremist thing. How many millions of people have been killed and pushed into poverty by US imperialism and capitalism in the middle east and south America? How many lives in this country have been torn apart by the military and prison industrial complex? You cannot account for America's mistakes abroad without also including its massive successes. No country is perfect. I believe America has been a force for good, in the bigger picture. This doesn't mean we can't improve by removing superstitions around harmless drugs that send people to prison, reforming prison in general so it is about rehabilitation, advocating for fairness in markets and in jobs, etc. In fact, you'll see that it's a decidedly American tradition to work on this type of improvement and to call out the state and to demand it improve. It's part of our foundation as a country. The founding fathers did not believe themselves to be the final say or authorities on how the land should be run, or that they had everything figured out. Everything you brought up, particularly the middle east and South Africa, are incredibly complex issues. It'd be easy to just dismiss America this way, but I personally am not satisfied with the offhanded approach the left has in this regard. Just doesn't feel substantive enough for me. We have a lot of work to do, but consider how much progress in every area (technology, medicine, science, law) is due to the American experience which is still ongoing and must continue. To give you an example of why I don't feel your approach is substantive enough, consider how you'd feel if I pointed out how China treats its own citizens when they contradict Xi or the state, or how the Soviet Union was responsible for millions of deaths and tens of millions in poverty, or etc. You'd believe that there's more to unpack here, which would be fair. --- proudclad LAYIN DOWN THE SMACK - Error1355 <cite>pure_temper posted [p:947842670] in C/D: The f... [t:79148449]...</cite> <quote>IMNOTRAGED posted... </cite> <quote>If you're capable of discerning between ideological groups and the circumstances that lead to certain events it absolutely makes a difference. Either way this really isn't an extremist thing. How many millions of people have been killed and pushed into poverty by US imperialism and capitalism in the middle east and south America? How many lives in this country have been torn apart by the military and prison industrial complex?</quote> You cannot account for America's mistakes abroad without also including its massive successes. No country is perfect. I believe America has been a force for good, in the bigger picture. This doesn't mean we can't improve by removing superstitions around harmless drugs that send people to prison, reforming prison in general so it is about rehabilitation, advocating for fairness in markets and in jobs, etc. In fact, you'll see that it's a decidedly American tradition to work on this type of improvement and to call out the state and to demand it improve. It's part of our foundation as a country. The founding fathers did not believe themselves to be the final say or authorities on how the land should be run, or that they had everything figured out. Everything you brought up, particularly the middle east and South Africa, are incredibly complex issues. It'd be easy to just dismiss America this way, but I personally am not satisfied with the offhanded approach the left has in this regard. Just doesn't feel substantive enough for me. We have a lot of work to do, but consider how much progress in every area (technology, medicine, science, law) is due to the American experience which is still ongoing and must continue. To give you an example of why I don't feel your approach is substantive enough, consider how you'd feel if I pointed out how China treats its own citizens when they contradict Xi or the state, or how the Soviet Union was responsible for millions of deaths and tens of millions in poverty, or etc. You'd believe that there's more to unpack here, which would be fair. --- proudclad LAYIN DOWN THE SMACK - Error1355</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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