LogFAQs > #904924107

adjl posted...

streamofthesky posted...

how disturbing the deferential attitude of "being legal = being morally right" is,

Basing morality on the laws is indeed extremely flawed logic (classic example: Those hiding jews in WWII Germany were breaking the law, those massacring them were following it), but that's not really what's being done here. I don't think anyone would claim that traveling at the posted speed limit is inherently immoral (presuming that everyone does it so you don't end up with somebody at a deviant speed).

Not the impression I was getting. Trying to argue the speed limits are intentionally kept low as an easy way to score fines when desired, and the responses seemed to be an awful lot of, "it's the law," as if that makes it right.
No shit it's the law, I know that. The law is wrong.

For example:
adjl posted...

Teeth posted...

they're so high in an attempt to dissuade anyone from fucking doing illegal shit again

Also that. If these violations still occur on a regular basis, then the fines are failing to discourage them and could probably actually stand to be higher (though again, scaled to be proportional to income so you don't get the disproportionate impact). Don't like how high fines are getting? Then stop being part of the problem, and encourage everyone you know to do the same.

That said, more consistent enforcement would help a lot more with that than higher fines would. The biggest reason people get so uppity about tickets is that they're typically being ticketed for something they do all the time without getting caught (especially in the case of speeding), and that they know thousands of other people are doing without getting caught. Hitting most violators with a moderate fine would yield better compliance than hitting a tiny minority of violators with an extreme one.

The problem with that is that better enforcement means spending more money on cops (and the ensuing "wah police state waaah" from entitled speeders), likely without a commensurate increase in ticket revenue. That means jacking up fines, though less effective, is the more cost-effective option.

You and Teeth are arguing from the perspective that the fines are just, and when presented with the obvious fact that they aren't because 99.9% of people do the same "crime" and are not punished for it, instead of saying, "maybe this shouldn't be a crime" your solution is to designate way more people as law-breakers.

In any case, my original complaint was only partly about how grossly unjust speed traps are, and at least as much about the massive amount of the fine being excessive. Yeah, "it's the law." Because the people who made the law like being able to skim money off innocent people as the budget requires.

And no, it's not about pride. I've never gotten a speeding ticket my whole life, but that's due to a combination of luck and avoiding driving as much as possible...because it's inevitably going to happen the more miles you drive.
Getting a speeding ticket isn't remotely common enough to make it logical to permanently change one's driving habits (and piss off everyone else on the road who's still driving at a normal speed), and it never will be.
But the anxiety definitely has an effect. I'm always checking for cops in likely hiding spots, it's stressful, and the distraction of a cop camped out is way more likely to get me into an accident than my driving speed.