LogFAQs > #968067194

paerarru posted...

I don't know if I would say "people's thoughts are based on societal structures". They do have an influence on it, for sure, but the way people think comes out of a lot more factors than the status of society.

Not to mention that if it does depend on society, then we're stuck. There's no way to change a society without changing thought.

I didn't say it's going to happen magically. And sure, while we're at it, why not change society as much as we can for the better. Hence, representation. But just that won't make any meaningful, lasting change, because you're locked in a power struggle, and power swings. So one decade things are going fine, and the next one you get Donald Trump. Why, because you didn't really change anything, no matter how comfortable it is to tell yourself that you did, and what twisted logic you use to tell yourself that.

sure there is a way to change society without changing thought. what do you think the Civil Rights movement was about? you think peoples' thoughts changes instantly before/after Jim Crow laws were outlawed? No, society changed because of that, and peoples' thoughts change over generations as people get used to being integrated and realizing people aren't the monsters they were made out to be. People of all kinds being represented, being seen as been normal/ok/as good as everyone else matters. It's the same reason why (more) people are cool with gay marriage. You may the change, people realize it's not as bad as they thought it was, and people change their views and move on. Same with will happen with socialized medicine in the US, one day, too. This is why we see intergenerational progress. Thoughts and society adjust/oscillate/progress over time, and laws/actions/movements are what help disrupt the status quo to move things along (very slowly, sadly). This is one of the things people are trying to do to normalize non-white, non-cis, non-male in some cases, people from being in main roles and more diverse roles than they have been for decades. And I am all for that. We just need for it to be normal, then we can "stop talking about it". This is, sadly, a necessary step, since we aren't at a point yet when it can just happen without needing to be commented on. This is similar to, say, interracial marriage, which is commonplace now, but was a big(ger) deal in the past. Now, we can see it (in some places) and not even bat an eyelash. Even in this case, we still it still catches peoples' attentions, sometimes in a negative way, but its certainly moving in (what I consider) a more positive direction. Why? Because things changed, and peoples' views adjusted accordingly.

And I do not dispute whatsoever that it swings back and forth. All of human history shows that there is constant back and forth in society. And that is normal. However, if you look at US history, you'll see it continually moves to the left if you look at long enough time scales. Conservatives continue to fight a losing war, even with (many, perhaps too many, in my opinion) victories along the way.