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TopicPolitics Containment Topic 125: Her Name Is Heather Heyer.
Jakyl25
08/16/17 12:56:38 PM
#372:


Wanglicious posted...
Jakyl25 posted...
Wanglicious posted...
the underlying premise of rehabilitation is that everyone is compatible.


Not sure I agree

I agree that the underlying premise values all life and forces us to be willing to give everyone the chance and opportunity to reform

I don't think it undermines the concept of rehabilitation to admit that a select small percentage will turn out to be incapable of reform.

All minds are not created equal


you have to begin from the point where it's an absolute and work your way down from there if you want a principle like this to exist. yes, even serial killers. the same way everyone deserves due process, or everyone needs to be proven guilty and is inherently innocent, these are principles starting from absolutes because if you break it, you open pandora's box of "well, what about this?"and start getting systems that are only slightly wrong until full scale ones where the core values are gone and only the systems for punishment exist. yeah, guilty people will take advantage of their declared innocence, businesses will abuse due process, and there's evil people who likely cannot be reformed who will take a lighter sentence, but if you start making exceptions those will always start to get worse (e.g., tribunals where guilt is presumed, the government's ignoring of due process, and the concept of the death penalty).

so far the only place that has a system that's full on about rehabilitation has ended up being the happiest place on earth with the best prison system out there. if they're willing to stick to that principle and apply it to yes, even a serial killer, it's worth consideration that maybe starting from the beginning is the better choice. obviously this is a huge change of mindsets from what i'd expect anyone to have and not something that'd change in one argument, but it's something to stick with you over time.

<_< did we finally find an issue i'm more to the left than you here?


I don't think we're really that far in disagreement? I'm not saying at all that we shouldn't give literally everyone a chance to reform. We absolutely should. I'm just saying that after awhile, a small percentage of people will demonstrate that they are mentally incapable of it.
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