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TopicQuestion for the Atheists on the board.
JeffreyRaze
04/14/12 2:03:00 PM
#273:


Well, if I think therefor I am fails, then I have to look into the possibility of me not existing. However, that's something I cannot do if I do not exist >_>. Sorta like a lot of the things you've said about logic, you know?

As for what I said about only that which is relevant being possible to find truth for, remember I'm using a very specific definition of relevant and truth. You can disagree with my definitions, but please say so directly. If we have absolutely no way of learning anything about something, it is not relevant, and we cannot know any truth about it. Contemplating the universe from a purely logical standpoint is all well and good, but without relying on information gained outside pure logic, logic can only be used to make statements about very specific things, most of which being purely logical in nature. Without the experience of having thought, I cannot make any statement about anything whatsoever. Logic in a vacuum is entirely self contained, and ultimately as useless as language in a vacuum would be.

As for the comment about inconclusiveness, it was indeed likely poorly worded. I meant to say that I do not believe that hearing the voice of god or seeing miracles is something I find more grounded in reality than dreams. Truth is iffy when speaking of things like that as it's nigh impossible to define them in a manner that anyone other than yourself could see, so it's hard to distinguish it from any other pure thought construct.

As for the stuff under the dashed line, those weren't claims, they were assumptions I feel need to be made before any attempt to discover truth is meaningful. Usefulness then would absolutely be disconnected from truth. It's only in an ordered universe that usefulness can be derived from truth.

As for your last line, that's just pushing things back a notch. Then you have to explain why god is ordered/exists the way he does, and as god is certainly more complex than any universe could be, all that's done by postulating a god is to create much more work for yourself and accomplish nothing.

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