Lurker > transience

like, 5 unveiled the holy grail and suddenly I'm stuck in Xenogears disc 2
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xyzzy

I use Yusuke because he has masukukaja which I found really helpful. Ryuji was my fifth and I went back and forth between the two. also ryuji's just kind of annoying.

I liked Persona 3's Hermit route (male mc) and sun (femc) a lot. I'm trying to remember social links in 4 and am coming up blank for some reason.

overall I'd say 3 > 5 > 4, though if you asked me to rank casts I'd probably go in reverse. I feel like 3 might be hard to play after every social link had a gameplay bonus in 5. it's at least paced better than 4 and 5 though. that's why I like 3 so much. sometimes I would spend an entire evening playing 5 and just reading text, which I don't necessarily mind but the pacing felt off.
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xyzzy

yeah I'm not high on Persona 4 either. 5 was better than 4.

3, on the other hand, had a really strong ending. January in P3 is fantastic.
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xyzzy

well, I maxed Fortune, Death, Star, Devil, Sun, Moon, Temperance, Lovers, Chariot, Tower and Strength, along with the standard ones that max on their own (Magician, Justice, Judgement, Fool). I got to 4 on Hanged (Iwai) and Hierophant (Sojiro, he's just impossible to level), 7 or so on Hermit (Futaba), 8 on Emperor (Yusuke), 5 on Priestess (Makoto) and 1 on Empress (Haru). my end social stats were 5-4-4-4-4 so I could never progress them further.

so, uh..

Temperance (Kawakami)
Star (Hifumi)
Death (Takemi)
Sun (Yoshida)
Lovers (Ann)
Chariot (Ryuji)
Tower (Shinya)
Moon (Mishima)
Fortune (Chihaya)
Devil (Ohya)
Strength (twins)

wasn't super high on any of them, but none were bad. well, except maybe Ohya.
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xyzzy

that was pretty good. I thought the game had pacing issues throughout, but mechanically it was certainly the most diverse and interesting Persona/SMT game yet. I beat it in 90:14.

the last section of the game kind of fell flat for me. it was almost FF9-esque with having a random big bad guy come out of nowhere after chasing another guy for some 75 hours.

my main party was Ann, Yusuke and Makoto. seemed like the MVP party with the possible exception of Yusuke.

ask me anything?
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xyzzy

I had issues with Chozodia my first time but not after that. the stealth section is smart. it takes away all of your power before giving you the whole arsenal. it makes you appreciate it more when you go from nothing to everything. feels good to rock those pirates.

the collectathon is a bit of a downer but I always play any%. there's a cleanup in every Metroid game so it isn't really that unique.
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xyzzy

sounds like a progressive/sanders-like
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xyzzy

Sorry Warren, but we won't be reciprocating!

only important choice in the game and you got it right
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xyzzy

use this route and you'll easily cut it in half - https://www.metroid2002.com/0/speed_tricks_early_ridley.php
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xyzzy

it really only helped if you wanted to get them early, i.e. jump-morph-spider ball before you got spring ball or hi jump
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xyzzy

the bottom screen was the map + touching it let you morph/unmorph

woo
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xyzzy

the east has Lebron, Kyrie, Giannis and... Wall, I guess, an injured IT and Kevin Love

sorry Toronto you don't deserve anyone after last year's playoffs
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xyzzy

better all star team: Golden State + OKC or the East?
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xyzzy

OKC big 3 + Roberson/Adams is a contender for best starting 5 in the league, second behind GS
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xyzzy

tennis being so left is throwing me

like I'd expect golf and tennis to be in line but nope!
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xyzzy

http://boston.cbslocal.com/2017/07/27/survey-national-anthem-protests-top-reason-for-nfl-ratings-drop/
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xyzzy

Jakyl25 posted...

transience posted...

yeah for sure

I still don't understand why Kap is such a huge deal. it's made me realize that football is a heavily conservative sport.

It's really not. NFL viewership is pretty centrist. NCAAF leans conservative.

It's just the conservative voices are VERY LOUD here because it's the double whammy of black people "stepping out of their lane" and anti-blind patriotism.

well NCAAF is heavily southern, so that makes sense. the polls out there saying that the #1 reason people stop watching football is Kap's sit/kneel, though? it's nuts
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xyzzy

I come from an NBA perspective. if a star in the NBA did this, it wouldn't be a big deal.

you can see that today with how the NBA has responded to the Curry callout vs. the NFL response
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xyzzy

yeah for sure

I still don't understand why Kap is such a huge deal. it's made me realize that football is a heavily conservative sport.
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xyzzy

I'd certainly go Wii. that game is all about scope and I can't imagine it feels quite the same on a small screen. I'm sure N3DS would be fine if you had to go that route, but yeah, I'd stick with the screen.
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xyzzy

https://twitter.com/TWSnyderman/status/911611917592088577

might be the greatest tweet in history
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xyzzy

between the kneeling stuff and the CTE stuff, I'm really wondering what the NFL looks like in 5 years
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xyzzy

huh. that's.. dumb.
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xyzzy

yeah I have no idea how to get past the spike stuff. I've tried!
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xyzzy

okay, my thoughts on the end sections:

the 'tourian' section felt really sudden, like here I am and hey metroids. it's hilarious how hard they try to make the metroid concept feel fresh. these guys unfreeze in less than a second so you just jam on the button and occasionally press r to missile them. it's dumb.

I wasn't a big fan of the metroid queen, but I found it better as I went on and learned the patterns. the fight didn't feel particularly satisfying, it just felt like holding on. I much preferred the am2r queen fight. that one is more of a grind as you really get in some good shots and it takes a ton. this one, it felt like she didn't take that many shots but she was harder to avoid. I thought the use of different powers like spider ball was cool though. they found a response to the complaint that foolmo had and that was cool.

metroid larva get! I always loved this in Metroid 2, or at least AM2R. but wait, you can just.. explore the world? yeah, I'm with notyou saying how that felt completely serene to slowly walk out of the planet and wandering back through the world with it as a sort of powerup is a bad choice.

ridley, huh? that feels retcon-y in a way that I shouldn't care about but totally do. this fight gave me hell. I died a few times. now this fight is a grind. I found a good flow where I would use super missiles on the head and, for the first time, I used the magic powers in a boss fight. that little shield ability gives you free life and I never really thought about using it until I saw that ridley was giving me some meter after each form.

I get why they went this route, adding ridley and putting a lot of focus on the metroid larva because that's really the money shot of metroid 2, but I dunno. I have a real deep and weird attachment to the metroid larva thanks to super metroid and seeing it as anything but samus's baby is really bizarre. anyway, not going to dwell on this too much.

fun game. am2r's better.
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xyzzy

nope. that's an X taking over an enemy, so post-Fusion
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xyzzy

phew

14:53:57 (aww yeah endless item hunting)
90%

oh snap, metroid 5 tease!
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xyzzy

SR is better about that, but also I don't mind because spider ball is pretty slow. it feels like an earlier game ability that gets displaced later by better ones.
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xyzzy

I'd defend AM2R but I need the game in front of me to do so. I'll say that a map isn't much proof.

I'm avoiding some of the posts here until I finish the game. I did a lot of cleanup and got to area 7. I'm down to 1 Metroid now. I had trouble with one of the omega metroids - it seemed like it took twice the number of shots of other ones and I died a couple of times right at the very end of the battle. power bombs do a nice job of dealing with the rocks though.

also, I apparently got sick and tired of the 3ds stick:



this thing just pops on and off, apparently, and doesn't click in or anything, it just sits on the top of the stupid controller. this feels like poetry that it broke while trying to play this dumb game.
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xyzzy

played a bunch today but not a whole ton to say. I fought two new bosses - the omega metroid which is just a slightly beefier version of a previous boss, and then a Zelda-like boss that confounded the hell out of me. I beat the omega metroid after one death due to being at about half health when entering the room (I had the sound off so didn't notice the beeping) but I died a really unfortunate number of times against the other guy. every form confused me as to what I was trying to do. I spent probably 45 minutes on this guy until I finally understood how to damage each part and then it was just a matter of execution. the boss itself wasn't hard and I had some fights that went close to 7 minutes just because I was trying to figure out what to do. I'm an idiot.

with a full arsenal (is there no speed booster in this game?!, I started heading back to earlier areas to do some item cleanup. I have 3 metroids left.
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xyzzy

wow, area 5 in samus returns is legitimately great. it's so open and it lets you just fly everywhere. it's exactly what I want out of a metroid.

one thing I'll say in this game's favor - it does a great job of making you feel powerless to super powerful. usually it's not so extreme - this game sucks to play at first but gets great as you get more and more. the game gets easier and the flow improves drastically. at this point I feel like a god and just fly everywhere without any care for the bad guys. the game even gives me these enemies that drop the equivalent of 2 etanks worth of health and they're in like every room. it's a little excessive but still great.

I think I have every powerup at this point except one. maybe I'll finish it tomorrow.
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xyzzy

I played another 45 minutes or so. spazer beam is a good add - weird how it opens doors, but I'm glad to have more options to go now. one issue I've had with this game is there's so many different blocks and doors and I have a hard time keeping them straight. I got stuck at one set of blocks for like five minutes because I thought they were screw attack blocks when they were actually just regular missile blocks. oh well, not a huge deal.

the three-room metroid was a cool idea once but they've played that card four times now and I'm real tired of it. I expected a 1 metroid area to be a unique boss but it's just that guy yet again. the next area after that is a weird chase scene that really falls flat. it seemed real cool up front until the last area becomes a trial and error/memory section. it would have been a lot better if you had a little bit of breathing room in the last section.

at least you get space jump. space jump feels good in this game, way better than super metroid and a lot like zero mission. some fun traversal leads to super missiles and the first omega metroid. I'd been dreading this since those guys are notorious and I'm dying on bosses a lot, but this was actually pretty easy! shooting him in the chest is a straight shot instead of trying to aim and that makes a world of difference here. I got him on the first try. two more metroids to go in this section.
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xyzzy

okay, I guess this is now a playthrough topic?

I finished area 3. had zero problems finding all the metroids - didn't even have to go back to the machine to locate one. I did in area 2 because there are a lot of different powerups and it once gave me a spot I couldn't even get to because I hadn't gotten like 3 other powerups yet. that was dumb since there were 3 other metroids I could have gotten to that it didn't mark on my map. anyway, there's only one powerup in area 3 (that I found anyway) so I was able to pretty much get wherever.

I got to area 4, which is 1 metroid, and I always loved that aspect of the game. it ratchets up the pressure when it's just one. I zipped back to collect items from old areas and saved for the day. I've got 4 etanks and a hundred or so missiles.
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xyzzy

I agree with foolmo on this. I think Ori feels more like "2d metroid" than Samus Returns does. (I don't think Strider belongs in the conversation but that's fine.) Fusion too, despite the gating. there's just a flow to the movement. Samus Returns feels more like Shadow Complex which likely relates to the 2.5dness of it.

CelesMyUserName posted...

yo I'm actually really liking this game

I'm enjoying the combat pretty darn well, although obviously I'll always wish for more freedom back in Metroid via controls... *cough* wall jump. On the plus side at least the walljumping they have is incredibly easy to pull off, and I've still managed some things with bomb jumping. I'm not really having any problems with the controls, free-aiming with a wave beam is pretty great stuff.

Main problem though... hidden secrets feel like such a gimmie so far.

good! I'm glad people are liking it. maybe my extreme negativity made it seem better than expected!

I agree that hidden secrets are a gimme with this map system but I don't think that's really a bad thing. I think Metroid 2's biggest flaw (really it's intentional so it's not really a flaw, but eh) is that you get stuck in an area and have to hunt to find every Metroid which can be a pain. the navigation stuff eases that a little bit by pointing you to everything. showing you exactly where the items are is a little extreme and counter to the Metroid philosophy but this game doesn't really feel like one of those so I'm okay with it. I don't really find myself enjoying this all that much when I'm stuck trying to find that last Metroid. it does better at presenting threats when they're in sight as opposed to somewhere across the vast world.
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xyzzy

I'll agree that Samus Returns has the better atmosphere. Fusion's better than Zero Mission there too though and Zero Mission is way better. then again, Zero Mission is my game. the fact that AM2R is largely ripping off Zero Mission is a good thing for me, not a drawback.

it's interesting that you view Metroid 2 through the lens of a survival game more than through a playable Metroid game. I guess you can make that argument - I wouldn't, but I have in other games like Limbo. Metroid is about traversal above all other things for me though and the fact that getting around isn't as friendly as other games makes it a struggle. I'm getting better at it though. I just fundamentally don't like the idea of sitting still and waiting for things to come to you.

AM2R's single button morph is so fun. I like jumping from a high place and repeatedly morphing to mess with the physics and clear more vertical space. so fun.
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xyzzy

I don't think that place can be furious. they just move on to the next thing.

breitbart, on the other hand, whoa
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xyzzy

I picked a bad time to play persona 5. that game even feels like EO sometimes.
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xyzzy

argh too many games right now

I will play EO5 demo soon
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xyzzy

I have some words about metroid

I'll save them for Friday
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xyzzy