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| Topic | Is whipping your kid with your belt child abuse? |
| Vindris_SNH 05/13/18 7:48:53 PM #331 | Asherlee10 posted... Y'all have more gumption than I do to continue to try to reason with his nonsense. Kudos. Your reading comprehension is lacking these days if you seriously think what I'm saying is nonsense. --- glitteringfairy: Just build the damn wall ThyCorndog: and how exactly will that stop the mexican space program from orbital dropping illegal immigrants? |
| Topic | Is whipping your kid with your belt child abuse? |
| Vindris_SNH 05/13/18 7:47:08 PM #330 | scar the 1 posted... If anything, the studies quite clearly show the opposite. No they don't. It could suggest parents don't know how to properly use spanking, not that it is necessarily difficult. scar the 1 posted... spanking isn't necessary. No form of discipline is "necessary". It depends on what kind of results you want. Some children respond to certain methods of discipline better than others. For example, not all children will be motivated to change their behavior by being grounded, but for some children, it might be the method of discipline that works best. scar the 1 posted... You have no basis whatsoever to support your stance on spanking That is not correct. I have a life of experience to support my stance on spanking, as well as the life experience and wisdom of many other people I know who have used spanking on their children effectively, to raise well-adjusted, successful individuals who, as far as I am aware, do not have any mental health issues. However, I am not aware of a scientific study that has been designed to prove my theories. If we found out it exists and saw the results, I think you would be proven wrong. scar the 1 posted... the science is very clear: Spanking is either Again, these studies do not prove that spanking is difficult to use "properly". Rather, they could be suggesting that parents simply aren't aware of how to "properly" use spanking as a disciplinary tool. And spanking isn't necessarily a risky method of discipline either, based on everything I've been saying throughout this entire head. If you use your brain, you'll find that neither your #1 or #2 are necessarily true. Again, unfortunately there is no scientific study I'm aware of that has taken into account the variables necessary to determine whether or not spanking, when applied in a specific manner, can instead produce positive results without drawbacks. But none of these studies actually prove that spanking, in all its uses, is always bad. From what I've seen in life, if spanking is applied "properly", as I've defined it, there are no drawbacks. scar the 1 posted... And with that in mind, why would a sensible parent not be humble enough to realize that they're not an expert in child psychology and that there's a risk besides the best intentions to do "improper" spanking, and that there are alternative methods that have much lower observed risks? I believe I've basically given you an answer to this question with everything else I've explained in this post. In addition, you don't have to be an expert to make your own observations and form your own opinions. The experts aren't always right. Sometimes instinct ends up being correct. Scientific studies have produced misleading results many times in the past, and I strongly believe this is another case of a "scientific" study that has produced misleading results. Just to reiterate, spanking may not be necessary for many children. But for some, it is a better motivator than any other form of discipline, and sometimes, it's basically the only thing that works (for a time). When you get a stubborn, clever child with a vivid imagination, other forms of discipline simply may not be effective at all. That is why I think it is important to find out the whole truth about spanking, and not just put all your faith in these flawed studies. --- glitteringfairy: Just build the damn wall ThyCorndog: and how exactly will that stop the mexican space program from orbital dropping illegal immigrants? |
| Topic | Is whipping your kid with your belt child abuse? |
| Vindris_SNH 05/13/18 9:05:44 AM #319 | Hexenherz posted... Vindris_SNH posted...Hexenherz posted...Studies show that children who were spanked as kids tend to grow up to be more abusive fathers and husbands, so... there's that. Then wallow in ignorance and have a great day. --- glitteringfairy: Just build the damn wall ThyCorndog: and how exactly will that stop the mexican space program from orbital dropping illegal immigrants? |
| Topic | Is whipping your kid with your belt child abuse? |
| Vindris_SNH 05/13/18 9:00:04 AM #316 | Hexenherz posted... Studies show that children who were spanked as kids tend to grow up to be more abusive fathers and husbands, so... there's that. Read the rest of my comments in the thread before throwing out, "Studies show...". --- glitteringfairy: Just build the damn wall ThyCorndog: and how exactly will that stop the mexican space program from orbital dropping illegal immigrants? |
| Topic | Is whipping your kid with your belt child abuse? |
| Vindris_SNH 05/13/18 8:57:29 AM #314 | scar the 1 posted... Alright. It's like anything else in life. If you can't be responsible with it and use it in moderation, don't use it at all. However, I don't believe proper spanking is that difficult to accomplish. I'd surmise that most parents are loving parents (eh, maybe not, lol, I don't know, mine were). If parents love their children, they want to do what is best for them. If there is some sort of education or awareness on how to spank properly, parents who spank might change their ways. And parents who aren't loving are going to mistreat their children one way or another, whether they spank or not. Again, any form of discipline can misused and cause issues. You might say, "Well parents are already not listening to scientific studies that say you shouldn't spank, so why would a study telling them how to properly spank their kids make them change their ways?". I think the reason most parents don't listen to these studies is because in their own lives, they've seen spanking used effectively and positively, and they ignore the studies. Then you have people like me who are actually smart enough to point out the flaws in these studies. If parents who are going to spank their children anyway were at least told the right way to do it, don't you think that would be a positive thing? Look, all of this is just conjecture, but what is not conjecture is that these studies do not account for a number of critical factors before coming to the, I believe, incorrect conclusion that spanking is bad. The studies do not consider that the misuse of spanking, not spanking itself, could be the actual issue. That is my main point in all of this. --- glitteringfairy: Just build the damn wall ThyCorndog: and how exactly will that stop the mexican space program from orbital dropping illegal immigrants? |
| Topic | Is whipping your kid with your belt child abuse? |
| Vindris_SNH 05/12/18 9:07:18 PM #309 | LockeMonster posted... Bumping this so we can all laugh more at the braindead logic coming from Vindris. If you think my logic is "braindead", either you didn't bother to read it, you weren't able to comprehend it, or you're too heavily influenced by peer pressure to gather the courage it takes to stand up against something most people (who are vocal) will disagree with you on. --- glitteringfairy: Just build the damn wall ThyCorndog: and how exactly will that stop the mexican space program from orbital dropping illegal immigrants? |
| Topic | Is whipping your kid with your belt child abuse? |
| Vindris_SNH 05/12/18 9:00:33 PM #308 | scar the 1 posted... Vindris_SNH posted...I have yet to see one person refute my points on why these studies should be considered invalid. I'm arguing that the studies are flawed in concluding that "spanking is bad", because they do not distinguish between the different applications of spanking. For example, they throw in parents who spank impulsively with parents who use spanking as more of a last resort for when nothing else is motivating the child. I've expressed throughout the thread how I would personally describe "proper spanking". These studies throw in all parents who use spanking "improperly" (as I've described it), and come up with these statistics that tell you, "Hey, usually when you spank your kids, they end up with mental health issues.", but I'm suggesting that the results might be different if they distinguish between "proper" and "improper" spanking, and separate the results and how they affect the children. I think if the study was done in the way I described, the study would find that spanking used in its "improper" forms is what is leading to mental health issues later on in life for these kids. They would find that using spanking "properly" induces no mental health risks for your children. In other other words, I believe spanking itself is not the issue, but rather its misuse is the issue. What these studies tell me is that spanking is commonly misused as a disciplinary tool. The problem I do legitimately see with spanking, is that it is very easy to misuse, and parents aren't educated well on how to use spanking properly, but are instead told simply not to ever spank their kids (by these flawed studies). To summarize, I'm basically arguing both. I think the studies are flawed, and I think that spanking can be an effective and healthy disciplinary tool with no long term negative effects if it is used properly. However, I'm not claiming that I have empirical evidence to support my belief that spanking can be good. It's just a theory. As for the studies being flawed, they really are. See my wrench analogy. They're condemning a disciplinary tool without considering that perhaps a majority of its users could simply be using the tool improperly. It is possible that the results of these studies are, in fact, very misleading. --- glitteringfairy: Just build the damn wall ThyCorndog: and how exactly will that stop the mexican space program from orbital dropping illegal immigrants? |
| Topic | Is whipping your kid with your belt child abuse? |
| Vindris_SNH 05/12/18 11:53:22 AM #305 | scar the 1 posted... hockeybub89 posted...Vindris is doing the exact thing he is accusing science of doing. Starting with a conclusion and working backwards to support it. I have yet to see one person refute my points on why these studies should be considered invalid. --- glitteringfairy: Just build the damn wall ThyCorndog: and how exactly will that stop the mexican space program from orbital dropping illegal immigrants? |
| Topic | Is whipping your kid with your belt child abuse? |
| Vindris_SNH 05/12/18 11:52:15 AM #304 | hockeybub89 posted... One thing 300 posts seemed to not question: Based on your logic, no form of discipline should be used. Your child understanding what they did wrong doesn't necessarily mean they won't do it again. Discipline is a form of motivation. You clearly don't understand the purpose of discipline. What conclusion is it that you're accusing me of starting with? --- glitteringfairy: Just build the damn wall ThyCorndog: and how exactly will that stop the mexican space program from orbital dropping illegal immigrants? |
| Topic | Is whipping your kid with your belt child abuse? |
| Vindris_SNH 05/11/18 5:14:15 PM #301 | averagejoel posted... Vindris_SNH posted...Spanking isnt necessarily abuse. Thats your opinion. I disagree. --- glitteringfairy: Just build the damn wall ThyCorndog: and how exactly will that stop the mexican space program from orbital dropping illegal immigrants? |
| Topic | Is whipping your kid with your belt child abuse? |
| Vindris_SNH 05/11/18 1:42:40 PM #297 | scar the 1 posted... I prefer the term beating because it is beating. Hah --- glitteringfairy: Just build the damn wall ThyCorndog: and how exactly will that stop the mexican space program from orbital dropping illegal immigrants? |
| Topic | Is whipping your kid with your belt child abuse? |
| Vindris_SNH 05/11/18 1:37:09 PM #295 | scar the 1 posted... Vindris_SNH posted...averagejoel posted...Vindris_SNH posted...Based on what? Your own personal definition? Beating suggests abuse. Spanking isnt necessarily abuse. Its as simple as that. You prefer the term beating because it demonizes my position. You know what youre doing, and hopefully no one in this thread is stupid enough to fall for your feeble persuasion tactics. --- glitteringfairy: Just build the damn wall ThyCorndog: and how exactly will that stop the mexican space program from orbital dropping illegal immigrants? |
| Topic | Is whipping your kid with your belt child abuse? |
| Vindris_SNH 05/11/18 1:30:24 PM #294 | Rikiaz posted... Asherlee10 posted...This just reeks of /r/iamverysmart Do any of these studies conclude that all spanking is always bad? Do any of these studies make clear distinctions between proper and improper spankings as Ive described them? Do any of these studies include results that show the differences in children who were spanked by parents who used spanking properly (again, as Ive described it) vs those who did not? Do any of these studies attempt to explain exactly why some kids who are spanked turn out fine? As my wrench analogy suggests, perhaps the issue isnt the disciplinary tool that is being used, but the way that tool is being misused by the parent that is causing issues in these children. The fact is, neither of us can answer that with a scientific study, because Im not sure one has been done which was able to accurately define and measure all the factors necessary to produce valid conclusions and settle this debate. A study that answers my bolded statement may never exist, because it would be extremely difficult and invasive to measure the factors necessary to produce accurate results. --- glitteringfairy: Just build the damn wall ThyCorndog: and how exactly will that stop the mexican space program from orbital dropping illegal immigrants? |
| Topic | Is whipping your kid with your belt child abuse? |
| Vindris_SNH 05/11/18 11:47:45 AM #282 | averagejoel posted... Vindris_SNH posted...Based on what? Your own personal definition? Ive already explained (several times) exactly why these studies should be dismissed (or at least questioned), but Im being ignored. --- glitteringfairy: Just build the damn wall ThyCorndog: and how exactly will that stop the mexican space program from orbital dropping illegal immigrants? |
| Topic | Is whipping your kid with your belt child abuse? |
| Vindris_SNH 05/11/18 11:41:47 AM #280 | averagejoel posted... Vindris_SNH posted...averagejoel posted...Vindris_SNH posted...averagejoel posted...ClunkerSlim posted...Vindris_SNH posted...he study does not attempt to distinguish between parents who use a form of discipline properly, Based on what? Your own personal definition? --- glitteringfairy: Just build the damn wall ThyCorndog: and how exactly will that stop the mexican space program from orbital dropping illegal immigrants? |
| Topic | Is whipping your kid with your belt child abuse? |
| Vindris_SNH 05/11/18 11:34:00 AM #275 | averagejoel posted... Vindris_SNH posted...averagejoel posted...ClunkerSlim posted...Vindris_SNH posted...he study does not attempt to distinguish between parents who use a form of discipline properly, Is there a difference between nibbling and devouring? Theyre both synonymous with eating, but you wouldnt call them the exact same thing. Youre being obstinate if you cant admit that you recognize a distinction between spanking and beating. --- glitteringfairy: Just build the damn wall ThyCorndog: and how exactly will that stop the mexican space program from orbital dropping illegal immigrants? |
| Topic | Is whipping your kid with your belt child abuse? |
| Vindris_SNH 05/11/18 11:18:17 AM #265 | averagejoel posted... ClunkerSlim posted...Vindris_SNH posted...he study does not attempt to distinguish between parents who use a form of discipline properly, Im against beating children. However, I believe spanking can be used effectively as a form of discipline, and can produce long-term positive results. Please stop misquoting me, and educate yourself on the difference between beating and spanking. --- glitteringfairy: Just build the damn wall ThyCorndog: and how exactly will that stop the mexican space program from orbital dropping illegal immigrants? |
| Topic | Is whipping your kid with your belt child abuse? |
| Vindris_SNH 05/11/18 11:08:30 AM #261 | Now people are bowing out of the discussion because they claim I cant be reasoned with, when in fact, they are the ones who refuse to accept reason. I expressed exactly why these spanking studies are flawed, repeatedly, and I was basically ignored, and told that Im disagreeing with science. Believe or not, but not all scientific studies end up being correct. Some of them fail to account for factors that can drastically alter the results. In this case, the study makes no distinction between using a form of discipline correctly or incorrectly. Since that distinction is not made, it is perfectly fair to say that its results are unfair in their judgement of corporal punishment. --- glitteringfairy: Just build the damn wall ThyCorndog: and how exactly will that stop the mexican space program from orbital dropping illegal immigrants? |
| Topic | Is whipping your kid with your belt child abuse? |
| Vindris_SNH 05/11/18 11:00:04 AM #257 | Rikiaz posted... Vindris_SNH posted...LockeMonster posted...Lmao @ the mental gymnastics some do to beat their children. Critical thinking is required to determine whether or not the results of a study should be considered valid, based on how the study was conducted, and how the conclusions of that study were derived. In this case, the study does not attempt to distinguish between parents who use a form of discipline properly, and the other, larger group of parents, who use the form of discipline improperly. The conclusion should not be, spanking is bad, but rather, spanking is being used improperly. --- glitteringfairy: Just build the damn wall ThyCorndog: and how exactly will that stop the mexican space program from orbital dropping illegal immigrants? |
| Topic | Is whipping your kid with your belt child abuse? |
| Vindris_SNH 05/11/18 10:55:19 AM #255 | Asherlee10 posted... Vindris_SNH posted...These studies fail to account for a number of critical factors. Youve already brought up his exact point and I shut it down. Do you have any new rebuttal that actually refutes my statements, or are you going to keep using a flawed study to prove that a flawed study isnt flawed? --- glitteringfairy: Just build the damn wall ThyCorndog: and how exactly will that stop the mexican space program from orbital dropping illegal immigrants? |
| Topic | Is whipping your kid with your belt child abuse? |
| Vindris_SNH 05/11/18 10:53:33 AM #253 | Funkydog posted... "I'm right because I'm ignoring science and you're an idiot because you are taking years and years of scientific study and not simply doing what we did before these studies." Ive explained exactly why these studies are flawed. You choose to ignore my evaluation of the validity of these studies. Thats called willful ignorance. --- glitteringfairy: Just build the damn wall ThyCorndog: and how exactly will that stop the mexican space program from orbital dropping illegal immigrants? |
| Topic | Is whipping your kid with your belt child abuse? |
| Vindris_SNH 05/11/18 10:50:33 AM #252 | LockeMonster posted... Lmao @ the mental gymnastics some do to beat their children. What youre calling mental gymnastics is actually critical thinking. If you have a legitimate rebuttal instead of a lame insult, feel free to share. --- glitteringfairy: Just build the damn wall ThyCorndog: and how exactly will that stop the mexican space program from orbital dropping illegal immigrants? |
| Topic | Is whipping your kid with your belt child abuse? |
| Vindris_SNH 05/11/18 10:19:25 AM #246 | Asherlee10 posted... Vindris_SNH posted...The intent and reasoning behind why a parent would physically punish their child does not make a difference. It's physical punishment and it will almost always come with negative impacts on mental health. Ive explained exactly why what youre calling the truth is not the truth. This actual analysis is actually a very poor analysis, and I have explained why. Can you not read? These studies fail to account for a number of critical factors. How many times do I have to explain this? You fail to scrutinize the methods of a study that was done, so I did it for you, and clearly explained the serious faults that exist within it. The studies that have been done on spanking do not distinguish between parents who properly use spanking as a tool of discipline, and parents who use it improperly. Ive defined pretty clearly how I would define proper in regards to spanking. And I have explained what factors these studies would need to include in order for the results to be valid. You seem to just be ignoring the points Im bringing up. You insist that these studies provide us with virtually factual results when they, in fact, do not, and I have demonstrated this clearly and repeatedly. If you can find me a study that accounts for the factors Ive been listing in this thread, Ill be happy to discuss this further. Until then, your mentions of studies say this or studies say that hold no weight. Ill use this example again because it fits the scenario perfectly... You have a group of people who are clueless on how on use a wrench. They throw the wrench at their car instead of using it properly. You have a much smaller group that actually knows how to use the wrench properly. A study seeks to determine whether wrenches are good for cars or not. The study finds that 90% of wrench users end up damaging their car more than they fixed it. The study concludes that wrenches are bad. This is exactly what this study is doing with spanking. Spanking is a disciplinary tool. It can be used correctly or incorrectly, just as with any other form of discipline. But these studies do not distinguish between this disciplinary tool being used correctly or incorrectly. This is why I have largely dismissed their results. The only thing these studies prove to me is that most parents dont know how to properly employ spanking as a method of discipline. --- glitteringfairy: Just build the damn wall ThyCorndog: and how exactly will that stop the mexican space program from orbital dropping illegal immigrants? |
| Topic | Should I buy a Switch today? |
| Vindris_SNH 05/10/18 8:26:13 PM #44 | ye --- glitteringfairy: Just build the damn wall ThyCorndog: and how exactly will that stop the mexican space program from orbital dropping illegal immigrants? |
| Topic | Is whipping your kid with your belt child abuse? |
| Vindris_SNH 05/10/18 8:20:01 PM #242 | voldothegr8 posted... DavidWong posted...Funkydog posted...DavidWong posted... This problem of "becoming better liars" can arise with literally any form of discipline. If the discipline is effective, the child will not like it (associating pain with wrongdoing is the purpose of any discipline). If the child doesn't like it, they will make an attempt to avoid it, either by no longer taking part in the action that got them in to trouble, or by trying to hide their wrongdoing, possibly through lies or deceit. A kid who doesn't want to get sent to his room for an hour might lie to his parents about doing something he wasn't supposed to. A kid who doesn't want to get spanked might do the exact same thing, for the exact same reason -- They don't want to be punished. --- glitteringfairy: Just build the damn wall ThyCorndog: and how exactly will that stop the mexican space program from orbital dropping illegal immigrants? |
| Topic | can someone explain how ''you cant use that word because of your skin color'' |
| Vindris_SNH 05/10/18 4:40:25 PM #2 | It is --- glitteringfairy: Just build the damn wall ThyCorndog: and how exactly will that stop the mexican space program from orbital dropping illegal immigrants? |
| Topic | WoW player who DDOS'd the servers gets sentenced to prison |
| Vindris_SNH 05/10/18 4:39:12 PM #7 | People still play that game? --- glitteringfairy: Just build the damn wall ThyCorndog: and how exactly will that stop the mexican space program from orbital dropping illegal immigrants? |
| Topic | Is whipping your kid with your belt child abuse? |
| Vindris_SNH 05/10/18 3:40:05 PM #225 | voldothegr8 posted... Vindris_SNH posted...I would never suggest someone beat their child, but you should be able to gather from this thread how I would approach spanking.https://www.merriam-webster.com/thesaurus/spank Seriously? Thesaurus? A synonym doesnt mean the words all have the exact same meaning. Eat - Nibble - Devour Those two words put very different images in your head. Your petty arguments are the weakest Ive seen on this thread. Learn how to debate. --- glitteringfairy: Just build the damn wall ThyCorndog: and how exactly will that stop the mexican space program from orbital dropping illegal immigrants? |
| Topic | Is whipping your kid with your belt child abuse? |
| Vindris_SNH 05/10/18 3:37:42 PM #224 | Asherlee10 posted... Vindris_SNH posted...YES! Even if a child manages to not have their mental health negatively impacted from physical punishment, they played the lottery and won. Good for them, they got lucky. Why would you risk this with your child? I don't get it. Wrong. Spanking is a disciplinary tool. You can use it improperly, or properly. The same goes for grounding. You can literally ground a child so much and for no good reason that it has a negative affect on them. Any form of discipline can be misused and produce negative results. My wrench example is perfectly relevant. These studies do not distinguish people using spanking properly and improperly, and unfortunately, most people use it improperly (otherwise the results would be different). --- glitteringfairy: Just build the damn wall ThyCorndog: and how exactly will that stop the mexican space program from orbital dropping illegal immigrants? |
| Topic | Is whipping your kid with your belt child abuse? |
| Vindris_SNH 05/10/18 3:32:29 PM #222 | The intent and reasoning behind why a parent would physically punish their child does not make a difference. It's physical punishment and it will almost always come with negative impacts on mental health. How do you think you know this? That it will almost always result in negative impacts on mental health? Ill tell you why... because a study told you so. But Ive already explained exactly why the study should not be taken so seriously, yet you seem to be completely ignoring that. The reason why you spank your child matters, but is not accounted for in these studies, which is why they produce the results that they do, and youre using a study that I just proved as faulty to disprove what Im saying. Makes no sense. You no longer have room to say, Because the studies show... because Ive already demonstrated exactly how these studies fail to account for critical factors. They lump in parents using spanking properly with the majority who are using it improperly, and never distinguish between the two! --- glitteringfairy: Just build the damn wall ThyCorndog: and how exactly will that stop the mexican space program from orbital dropping illegal immigrants? |
| Topic | Is whipping your kid with your belt child abuse? |
| Vindris_SNH 05/10/18 3:24:23 PM #221 | averagejoel posted... Vindris_SNH posted...Imagine a study being done, where all these people who are clueless about how to use a wrench are literally tossing wrenches at their car, and maybe a few of them actually know how to use the wrench. The study concluded that wrenches are bad for cars 90% of the time, so basically dont use wrenches. The people who actually know how to use wrenches are sitting back looking at this, and what do you think is on their mind? These people are nuts! If they used the wrench like I do, they would see it works great, no risk involved! I would never suggest someone beat their child, but you should be able to gather from this thread how I would approach spanking. - The child should be intelligent enough to understand the difference between right and wrong - The child should be aware of what they are and are not allowed to do - The child should be warned verbally after a first offense - Successive similar offenses should result in non-physical punishment (grounding, timeout, etc.) - A third offense warrants spanking, as it is clear that previous punishments were not harsh enough to motivate - Spanking should never leave permanent injury. Red marks that last about 30 minutes are to be expected, but bruising, bleeding, or broken bones are unacceptable. - A belt or paddle is permissible assuming the above rule is adhered to - A parent should never spank their child while angry - Explain to the child in a way they can comprehend, why they are being spanked, immediately preceding the spanking - Spanking should be used as a form of discipline, not as a way to release anger or frustration - The purpose should be to develop a healthy respect for authority, and a healthy fear of consequences for wrongdoing, similar to any other form of discipline Those are a few core spanking rules I would go by. --- glitteringfairy: Just build the damn wall ThyCorndog: and how exactly will that stop the mexican space program from orbital dropping illegal immigrants? |
| Topic | Is whipping your kid with your belt child abuse? |
| Vindris_SNH 05/10/18 3:11:02 PM #217 | voldothegr8 posted... Rikiaz posted...voldothegr8 posted...Rikiaz posted...CE literally defending child abuse. I think the study Asherlee posted said something like 70% of Americans say they use physical punishment on their kids? Used to be 90% in the 60s. --- glitteringfairy: Just build the damn wall ThyCorndog: and how exactly will that stop the mexican space program from orbital dropping illegal immigrants? |
| Topic | Is whipping your kid with your belt child abuse? |
| Vindris_SNH 05/10/18 2:58:21 PM #211 | Imagine a study being done, where all these people who are clueless about how to use a wrench are literally tossing wrenches at their car, and maybe a few of them actually know how to use the wrench. The study concluded that wrenches are bad for cars 90% of the time, so basically dont use wrenches. The people who actually know how to use wrenches are sitting back looking at this, and what do you think is on their mind? These people are nuts! If they used the wrench like I do, they would see it works great, no risk involved! This is how these spanking studies are treated. You take a bunch of people who dont use the tool properly, and the tool is blamed for the problem. --- glitteringfairy: Just build the damn wall ThyCorndog: and how exactly will that stop the mexican space program from orbital dropping illegal immigrants? |
| Topic | Is whipping your kid with your belt child abuse? |
| Vindris_SNH 05/10/18 2:51:02 PM #209 | YES! Even if a child manages to not have their mental health negatively impacted from physical punishment, they played the lottery and won. Good for them, they got lucky. Why would you risk this with your child? I don't get it. Youre not playing the lottery. Its more like tossing a wrench at a car VS actually using it how its supposed to be used. If youre tossing a wrench at your car, youre not using that tool properly, and it will likely do damage. If you know how to use the wrench, and you use it properly, the tool can be used for good, and youll have a positive outcome, no damage done. The key here is knowing how spanking can be used properly, but these studies dont differentiate between the proper and improper use of the wrench. --- glitteringfairy: Just build the damn wall ThyCorndog: and how exactly will that stop the mexican space program from orbital dropping illegal immigrants? |
| Topic | Is whipping your kid with your belt child abuse? |
| Vindris_SNH 05/10/18 2:47:41 PM #208 | These things are irrelevant. They are irrelevant because it's still physical punishment. The intent and demeanor behind the parent do not matter because it's bad when a parent physically strikes a child in anger it is ALSO bad when a parent physically strikes a child then they are not angry. I dont even know how to approach the supreme ignorance in this response. Are you seriously telling me you think there is no difference between whether or not a child understands why they are being punished? If you send a child to their room or ground them as punishment for wrongdoing, should you not make them aware of what they did wrong? And if they were sincerely unaware, should you even punish them? These basic rules of when discipline is proper apply to all other forms of discipline, yet somehow they dont apply to spanking? Spanking accomplishes the exact same thing as all other forms of discipline when used properly: it teaches that wrongdoing results in pain, be it physical or emotional or whatever. You think grounding a child or putting them in a timeout isnt meant to cause some form of pain to them? Youre teaching them to associate pain with wrongdoing at an early age, so they dont have to learn the hard way when they get older. With any other form of discipline, I imagine that you would agree it is more effective when the child is aware of what they did wrong, that the child knew they would be disciplined for it, when the parent isnt acting purely out of anger, etc... but you refuse to apply those same rules when spanking is used as discipline? Its just bad because its hitting? Hitting causes pain, grounding causes pain, timeouts cause pain, pain is the point of discipline. --- glitteringfairy: Just build the damn wall ThyCorndog: and how exactly will that stop the mexican space program from orbital dropping illegal immigrants? |
| Topic | Is whipping your kid with your belt child abuse? |
| Vindris_SNH 05/10/18 2:32:24 PM #206 | voldothegr8 posted... hockeybub89 posted..."Don't stand on the top rung of a ladder" I dont brush studies off. However, I do scrutinize them, as should everyone else. You shouldnt just skip down to the conclusion, you should examine the methods used to reach that conclusion, and ponder whether or not important factors were missed or ignored. I will discredit studies, not brush them off. --- glitteringfairy: Just build the damn wall ThyCorndog: and how exactly will that stop the mexican space program from orbital dropping illegal immigrants? |
| Topic | Is whipping your kid with your belt child abuse? |
| Vindris_SNH 05/10/18 2:23:23 PM #204 | hockeybub89 posted... "Don't stand on the top rung of a ladder" Imagine using a fall protection harness while standing on the top of a ladder rung. Now imagine a study telling you that in most cases people die when falling from that top ladder rung. But then, even though youre wearing the harness, I insist that youll die if you fall off the ladder because a study said you will, even though that study didnt account for people wearing a harness while on the ladder. Thats a better example of whats going on here... critical information is being ignored. --- glitteringfairy: Just build the damn wall ThyCorndog: and how exactly will that stop the mexican space program from orbital dropping illegal immigrants? |
| Topic | Is whipping your kid with your belt child abuse? |
| Vindris_SNH 05/10/18 2:16:22 PM #202 | Asherlee10 posted... Vindris_SNH posted...Read the definition they created in that report for physical punishment, and read the section on when it is used. Clearly the report doesnt care to differentiate between how spanking is used differently within certain households. Does the study you posted include: - Why the child was spanked. - Was the child aware that what they were doing could lead to them being spanked? - Did the child comprehend the rule set before them, and why it was a rule to begin with? - Was the child given a warning and a non-physical form of punishment before spanking was employed? - Was the parent angry while spanking? There are a few things to start. Ive already mentioned them. Look at those factors and see if the study reports differences in children that were spanked differently. The thing that causes these studies to conclude that spanking is bad is that they are lumping in parents who dont use spanking properly (most parents) with the parents who do use spanking properly (not many parents). This is my entire point, that there are a lot of factors that go into whether or not a spanking could be considered proper as a form of discipline, and these studies ignore those factors when concluding that spanking is bad. Youre telling me that you think spanking should not be practiced because this study tells you its almost always bad. But what if thats only because almost all parents involved in the study were using it wrong? What if what Im calling proper spanking was taught and could be used by parents effectively and for a positive outcome without any risk? I believe thats possible. There is no risk of negative outcome when spanking is employed properly. --- glitteringfairy: Just build the damn wall ThyCorndog: and how exactly will that stop the mexican space program from orbital dropping illegal immigrants? |
| Topic | Is whipping your kid with your belt child abuse? |
| Vindris_SNH 05/10/18 2:04:20 PM #199 | averagejoel posted... Vindris_SNH posted...Wrong. Im simply asking for someone to present a study that proves spanking is always bad. This study failed to include the factors I mentioned earlier, which are critical to understanding whether or not spanking is always bad, or if it can be used to create a positive outcome when employed properly. Please find a study that includes the factors I mentioned earlier. --- glitteringfairy: Just build the damn wall ThyCorndog: and how exactly will that stop the mexican space program from orbital dropping illegal immigrants? |
| Topic | Is whipping your kid with your belt child abuse? |
| Vindris_SNH 05/10/18 1:46:28 PM #197 | Asherlee10 posted... Here is an interesting study that was done (includes meta-analysis) - https://calio.dspacedirect.org/handle/11212/3568 Read the definition they created in that report for physical punishment, and read the section on when it is used. Clearly the report doesnt care to differentiate between how spanking is used differently within certain households. This report does not indicate that your child is guaranteed to have issues caused by spanking, and it clearly seeks to make spanking look bad based on how it is structured. Its a biased report, and it seems to me that it is meant to deceive. Your bottom line claims there is little research evidence to support spanking improving behavior. Thats correct, because the focus of research has been to demonize spanking. Everyone doing the research is doing their best to make it look bad, and theyre having trouble convincing people because people with actual life experience have, many times, seen the opposite of what these studies are purporting. I cant make any substantial claim on the effects of properly using spanking as a form of discipline, because all I have is anecdotal evidence. But no study Im aware of, certainly not the one you posted, has ever given spanking a fair trial. If you find a study that includes the factors I mentioned earlier, please let me know. --- glitteringfairy: Just build the damn wall ThyCorndog: and how exactly will that stop the mexican space program from orbital dropping illegal immigrants? |
| Topic | Is whipping your kid with your belt child abuse? |
| Vindris_SNH 05/10/18 11:52:46 AM #191 | scar the 1 posted... Vindris_SNH posted...scar the 1 posted...Konflikt posted...It's 2018 and people still feed Vindris Wrong. Im simply asking for someone to present a study that proves spanking is always bad. I know of no studies that have tried to prove spanking is good, and even if they exist, they would be just as invalid as the studies supposedly proving spanking is/can be bad, and for the same reason; the inability to consistently measure critical factors. --- glitteringfairy: Just build the damn wall ThyCorndog: and how exactly will that stop the mexican space program from orbital dropping illegal immigrants? |
| Topic | Should we strip away people's right to vote? |
| Vindris_SNH 05/10/18 11:46:44 AM #18 | There are just as many idiots on either side, politically. Theyre just different kinds of idiots. --- glitteringfairy: Just build the damn wall ThyCorndog: and how exactly will that stop the mexican space program from orbital dropping illegal immigrants? |
| Topic | Is whipping your kid with your belt child abuse? |
| Vindris_SNH 05/10/18 11:45:02 AM #189 | DoctorVader posted... Vindris_SNH posted...I dont need evidence. Im not the one making accusations. Your claim is that spanking is bad. Even the article you linked says spanking can be bad. It doesnt say spanking is always bad. Regardless, for the thousandth time, these studies are unable to account for all variables involved in spanking, and they do not clearly define or make a clear distinction between proper and improper spanking. Common sense isnt evidence. I was being facetious. Please address the points Im making and tell me why you think these studies on spanking should hold weight, considering what I just explained about their validity. --- glitteringfairy: Just build the damn wall ThyCorndog: and how exactly will that stop the mexican space program from orbital dropping illegal immigrants? |
| Topic | Is whipping your kid with your belt child abuse? |
| Vindris_SNH 05/10/18 11:42:27 AM #188 | scar the 1 posted... Konflikt posted...It's 2018 and people still feed Vindris Someone brings up a valid point that challenges your opinion on something? Call them a troll and walk away feeling great about yourself. Sad to see so many people who are happy being ignorant. --- glitteringfairy: Just build the damn wall ThyCorndog: and how exactly will that stop the mexican space program from orbital dropping illegal immigrants? |
| Topic | Is whipping your kid with your belt child abuse? |
| Vindris_SNH 05/10/18 11:37:16 AM #182 | DoctorVader posted... Vindris_SNH posted...The accusation is that spanking is harmful. The burden of proof is on the accuser. Studies have tried to prove that spanking is harmful, but none of them have ever concluded that spanking is always bad. Regardless, these studies have many variables that are unaccounted for, and dont clearly distinguish between proper and improper usage of spanking. I dont need evidence. Im not the one making accusations. Your claim is that spanking is bad. Even the article you linked says spanking can be bad. It doesnt say spanking is always bad. Regardless, for the thousandth time, these studies are unable to account for all variables involved in spanking, and they do not clearly define or make a clear distinction between proper and improper spanking. In other words, what youre basically touting as scientific fact is a study that maybe kind of came up with some, at best, questionable results that probably dont actually mean anything. Go back in this thread and look at some of the factors I listed that need to be included to validate a study on spanking and see if you can find a study that accounted for at least the few factors that I listed. If you find a study that did, Ill listen. Until then, your accusations toward spanking are virtually baseless. --- glitteringfairy: Just build the damn wall ThyCorndog: and how exactly will that stop the mexican space program from orbital dropping illegal immigrants? |
| Topic | Is whipping your kid with your belt child abuse? |
| Vindris_SNH 05/10/18 11:27:06 AM #177 | voldothegr8 posted... Vindris_SNH posted...There is a difference between spanking and beating. Your deflections have made it evident that you have no real counter-argument. And if youre being sincere, then I pity your ignorance, and I would be wasting my time debating with someone who cant understand basic distinctions. --- glitteringfairy: Just build the damn wall ThyCorndog: and how exactly will that stop the mexican space program from orbital dropping illegal immigrants? |
| Topic | Is whipping your kid with your belt child abuse? |
| Vindris_SNH 05/10/18 11:19:56 AM #170 | voldothegr8 posted... What's the damn difference? Spank, beat, any way you slice it Inflicting physical pain is inflicting physical pain. You just don't like seeing the term "beat" because it ruins your, rather sick imo, narrative. There is a difference between spanking and beating. I cant imagine anything but willful ignorance is preventing you from admitting that. I have yet to see a counter argument from you by the way. Instead youve been working on trying to twist my words, playing the semantics game. Ive seen it before. Its what people resort to doing when they realize theyre going to lose an argument. --- glitteringfairy: Just build the damn wall ThyCorndog: and how exactly will that stop the mexican space program from orbital dropping illegal immigrants? |
| Topic | Is whipping your kid with your belt child abuse? |
| Vindris_SNH 05/10/18 11:14:04 AM #168 | DoctorVader posted... Vindris_SNH posted...I sound ridiculous to you because you are obstinate. The accusation is that spanking is harmful. The burden of proof is on the accuser. Studies have tried to prove that spanking is harmful, but none of them have ever concluded that spanking is always bad. Regardless, these studies have many variables that are unaccounted for, and dont clearly distinguish between proper and improper usage of spanking. How many more times do I have to explain this? The studies youve seen lack an analysis deep enough to produce meaningful results. You would have to be extremely invasive in a study like this to really come up with valid answers. A proper study on spanking just does not exist. --- glitteringfairy: Just build the damn wall ThyCorndog: and how exactly will that stop the mexican space program from orbital dropping illegal immigrants? |
| Topic | Is whipping your kid with your belt child abuse? |
| Vindris_SNH 05/10/18 11:01:04 AM #163 | voldothegr8 posted... Vindris_SNH posted...voldothegr8 posted...Vindris_SNH posted...Asherlee10 posted...hockeybub89 posted...You'd think people would celebrate at the scientific findings of "Hey you don't need to hit small children" not complain and make excuses. Im defending spanking being used as a loving form of discipline. Im not defending beating children. But you knew that. So, can you counter the points I made or not? --- glitteringfairy: Just build the damn wall ThyCorndog: and how exactly will that stop the mexican space program from orbital dropping illegal immigrants? |
| Topic | Is whipping your kid with your belt child abuse? |
| Vindris_SNH 05/10/18 10:58:34 AM #161 | DoctorVader posted... Vindris_SNH posted...DoctorVader posted...What unknown statistics? Statistics on spanking are all over the internet. I sound ridiculous to you because you are obstinate. --- glitteringfairy: Just build the damn wall ThyCorndog: and how exactly will that stop the mexican space program from orbital dropping illegal immigrants? |
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