Lurker > Luis_Sera89

Yeah, whenever these go up for pre-order, they're sold out 15 to 20 mins later. And never when I'm around to get one :/
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Terrains are warped to ensure they fit everyone these days e.g. Bowser and Wily in Mantis' terrain.
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That and I was anticipating some asinine argument where they camp the room they start in and bomb anyone who comes in.
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DARK HASEO

He then begins a Beast Awakening with his villainous buddies Vergil and Dizzy.

Pleased with his acquisition of more power, Vergil increases his upkeep by 5.

Bayonetta summons a 10-year old Knuckles.

Flynn brings Riot Gun, Debilitate, Luster Candy and Salvation.

Done.
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"Eet's game time..."
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I know Jaesa better than most! I made her build. I just thought focusing on her would have been the wrong direction to argue in. It's hard enough in the face of insta Bass votes to then try hyping an obscure character from a middlingly popular MMORPG. Not when Dizzy exists.
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I think Lilith changes dimension when phasestriking, so probably not.
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Gatarix posted...

what is xcom's current level?

asking because it looks like he's either a corporal or sergeant in standings, but then he couldn't get secondary heart

Looks like a Corporal as far as I can tell. Which makes Dr Light's relinking invalid. D.Va might still get the 5 EXP though?
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10 EXP on Flynn's new Trigger, completing it.
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http://guilty-gear.wikia.com/wiki/Dizzy#Powers_.26_Abilities

Second paragraph of this section. And destroying a fleet of warships on a whim is like, Laharl-calibre strength, albeit without the finesse to avoid killing inhabitants.
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I mean, it essentially comes down to "how can Bass, even a buffed Bass, beat Dizzy?"

Even 600% shots aren't on the same level as nuclear blasts, which Dizzy has demonstrated to be able to tank. Once healers are out of the picture, he has to be able to wear her down, and all the while Dizzy isn't exactly standing there letting him do it. She's going to figure out over the course of the fight that fire magic has a greater effect than most, assuming Flynn doesn't just outright tell her. He has a lot of "HP", but Dizzy has a whole lot more. And the lower it gets, the more willing she/her systems will be to unleashing her stronger attacks in fight-or-flight.
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"Eet's game time..."
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Jaesa's probably on the better end of 4/weeks. She's kind of a jack-of-all-trades of offence, tanking and support skills, like all SWTOR companions after the system rework.

https://torcommunity.com/database/companion/aCkSzGB/jaesa+willsaam/

She's better than Rikku and Yu here and can take them out with relatively minimum fuss. She isn't the answer to Bass though, who's drawing all the attention. That would be Flynn and Dizzy, hence where I'm focusing my energy on arguing. Honestly, I'd be feeling greater consternation over people seemingly being unwilling to believe the scope of just what Dizzy can accomplish than not thinking a combo piece merc like Jaesa can greatly influence a match.
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That isn't a Gamma Ray, the attack just before it in that video is, and it's a normal super move where both weapons attack creating a giant laser. Whilst not practical, that IK at least shows the kind of power Dizzy is capable of, especially when driven to desperation and her weapons kind of take over (they're capable of possessing her in dire moments which causes her 'personality' to do a complete 180 and go for the kill).

There's an alternate future caused by I-No time travelling and resulting in a young Ky dying, where Dizzy takes over as leader of the Gears when Justice dies. That's where Sol Badguy, regarded as the strongest character in GG, leads an all-or-nothing attack on her along with a fleet of warships. She destroys all of them, and is still alive after a nuclear explosion lands on her. Peak power Dizzy is serious business. It'd take both Wrex and Bass a while to wear her down, and all the while she has all that destructive force available to her.
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http://guilty-gear.wikia.com/wiki/Dizzy

Powers & Abilities section. I quoted a number of feats in my opening argument. Bass and Wrex have nothing approaching that. And saying she has a low health total in-game is like the old "Akuma dies to a stiff wind" argument, where balance decrees his health his low to compensate for his offensive tools. That doesn't exist here.

In terms of buffs, Doping doesn't expire. Luster Candy simply gets reapplied when it runs out. It's teamwide and instant cast. When they're effectively doing the same thing, saying you have two healbots isn't much to brag about. Flynn is accomplishing that whilst also contributing offensively. It's going to become clear pretty quickly that the two real threats are being healed, and even with double health, Yu and Rikku aren't exactly durable. They can't withstand Selvaria's attacks or strong fire magic, and then it's a 2v4 the other way. Assuming both sides are constantly being topped up to full health beforehand. Bass is arguably only one-shotting Jaesa or Flynn with his strongest shots, and neither of those are the 'obvious' threats to attack, if the same logic is going to be applied for Flynn's team attacking Bass/Wrex.
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I don't know about "less durable". Taking buffs into account I peg it at:

Dizzy > Bass > Wrex > Selvaria > Flynn > Yu > Jaesa = Rikku

Like, I can't stress this enough. Dizzy is really, ridiculously durable. Between dealing and taking damage she's charging 'meter' pretty quickly, and then she's busting out Necro's fire lasers and the infamous Gamma Ray.
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I can buy Wrex taking point, and a buffed Wrex surviving Selvaria's giant laser. He doesn't just shrug it off though, and there's damage following up on that right away. It isn't the initial damage that's important so much as the initiative is. I wouldn't go as far as saying they'd be in disarray or panicking, but the momentum is against them and it takes precious seconds to get a bearing on the situation. At which point Jaesa is in their faces, Selvaria is sniping he support and they're also getting hit by doubly effective magic.
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Salvation is a full party heal as well, and it also removes status effects.

Depending on your mileage, that could potentially remove Stasis as well.
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Tetrakarn doesn't seem like a very effective counter to the other team. The only source of 'physical' damage is Selvaria's machine gun. Everything else is magic based. That'll reflect the first one or two, what about all the others? Between the initial ambush and Rikku/Yu's low-ish durability in general, they aren't likely to be relevant for too long. I don't think you can underestimate the effect of being suckerpunched from an ambush when the teams are otherwise fairly evenly matched.

It's also worth noting that the more in danger Dizzy's life is, the more influence her weapon systems Necro and Undine are going to have in protecting her. Necro in particular is a total sadist and doesn't hesitate at all in nuking people threatening her. The lower her health gets the more damage she outputs.
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Given Auto-Pinpoint is specifically given on character upgrade it's obviously supposed to have some kind of intended effect. Removing anything gameplay mechanicy and you're more or less left with 'Flynn automatically targets enemies with their elemental weaknesses'.

As for Jaesa and Revan, Revan is clearly a lot more experienced; Jaesa is a corrupted padawan at the end of her training, she's a lot more raw. I've always likened her to Obi-Wan Kenobi at the end of Episode 1, except dark side. They both use the same defensive, evasion-based lightsaber discipline.
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No, Haseo was KO;d.
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I don't see why Dizzy would be the obvious target for Stasis. If there are ranged attacks coming from three different sources, and Jaesa is the only one needing to close in to melee range, I would've thought the most likely one he'd aim at is the one jumping at him with a lightsaber.
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Naraku is a fairly typical RPG dungeon. Lots of tight passageways and stairs, but it also has the odd large room, with a little more space to move around. The 4th Stratum, where Team Flynn starts is pretty cavernous.

https://youtu.be/6U3BJBkbzbA?t=9m50s

In short, it's the kind of terrain you want to creep around in, and getting the drop on the other team is huge. Unfortunately for Team Bass, there's someone with them who's relentlessly talkative, loud, and unintentionally scuppering any chance they have of being stealthy.

http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/928/011/832.jpg

This girl.

Flynn & co know Neptune is with the other team, and whether through design or not, they're going to hear her coming from where they're waiting, and thus, know when the enemy team is approaching, signalling when Flynn should be buffing (which include teamwide attack, defence, agility and maximum hp increases) as well as giving Selvaria an indication of when to wind up her bigger laser attacks.

Already starting on the backfoot, there's then the issue of personas, which Bass, Yu and Rikku are all carrying. They obviously provide many positives, but it also crucially gives each of them an elemental weakness; fire for Bass and lightning for Yu and Rikku. Ordinarily pointing this out would be far too meta and not something Team Flynn would know going into the fight, but the Auto-Pinpoint app does exactly that, instantly telling Flynn what weaknesses the enemy possesses so they can be capitalised on. SMT and Persona operate off of the same system, so Flynn has the tools to target weakpoints, and presumably so can Dizzy with her fire and lightning magic.

Speaking of which, Dizzy's offensive firepower is monstrous, and despite appearances, her durability is also a clear step ahead of anyone else in this fight. Baiken's katana, which cleaves through giant Gears in the GG story like butter, breaks when it strikes Dizzy's skin. A 20k ft fall only knocks her out. In an alternate 'what if' timeline, one Gamma Ray destroys an entire fleet of airships, and when one kamikaze dives her, triggering a nuclear explosion, she tanks that as well. Make no bones about it, a Dizzy "at the peak of her powers", who is motivated to fight, is terrifying. And here her stats are buffed further, with healing available from Flynn and Jaesa. 500% physical attacks from Bass are nothing to be trifled with, but it would take several on Dizzy to wear her down.

I think a flying Dizzy with her projectile-based game of magic and lasers lays waste to the other team, whilst drawing a lot of the fire as well, allowing Flynn to support more comfortably, switching between that and attacking with Agidyne/Ziodyne and Great Logos, which also happens to be the strongest AoE magic attack in the fight. Rikku and Yu are capable of healing, but I find it more likely they drop quicker than Dizzy's support does, whether in the inital ambush or over the course of the fight.

tl;dr - The presence of Neptune ensures Team Dizzy can get the drop on the other team in a terrain such as this. Auto-Pinpoint allows Flynn to capitalise on passive Persona weaknesses. Dizzy is by far the strongest fighter here, and has able back-up to boot.
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"Eet's game time..."
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A Dizzy that's at her peak and wants to fight could honestly make a decent case for soloing here. Her damage output and durability is absurd.
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Nah, Jaesa stabstabstab's Samus instead.

Neptune leaves to go make a new friend! Yaaaayyyyyyy!

Flynn brings Great Logos, Luster Candy, Doping and Salvation.

Dizzy is MOTIVATED.

Done.
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This fight ill needs a bounty hunter such as Samus.

Jaesa's lightsaber thirsts for blood.
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greengravy294 posted...

bunch of cowards

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Meta-Ridley boss fight
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Bring down Dizzy
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As much as I'd like Talk to still be up, any ability Strike Man nullifies still goes on cooldown according to the write-up.
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"Eet's game time..."
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I will Defend.

10 EXP towards Richter's Mankind ill needs... Pre-Battle, unlocking it.
10 EXP towards Neptune's new Pre-Battle, unlocking it.
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Yes please.
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Bass is pretty legit here. That weapon loadout is obscene.
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and Neptune would enjoy talking in SotN-style voice acting

Neptune is literally beside herself seeing both Richter and Alucard and would probably be doing the silly voice for shits and giggles even if the Plan wasn't compelling her to.
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"Eet's game time..."
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In all honesty, Selvaria could probably block the shell from behind her shield and mitigate a lot of the effects from just being straight up hit with it. Her lance and shield make her a super soldier with super strength and durability. It takes another valkyrie like her to physically overpower her in-game.
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... also if Jessy over there can force push the shell, why not THE MOST POWERFUL PRACTITIONER OF PSYCHOKINESIS AND TELEPATHY IN THE WORLD

If Jaesa and Mantis want to have a battle of telekinetic wills whilst the rest of the battle is going on around them, I think she's pretty ok with that!
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StealThisSheen posted...

I don't think Bowser really has to try to bodyblock. He's huge and going to do so pretty much just by virtue of being there. Luis is effectively arguing that Bowser is too big to move, yet not big enough that the shell will just... Go around him? C'mon, now.

I don't understand what you're getting it, but I'm arguing that the Sith who can stop large objects travelling at high speed without even really needing to think about it stops the shell before it becomes an issue in the first place. But if it IS allowed to go on it's merry way, Bowser isn't in a position to be perfectly pinging it back.
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greengravy294 posted...

Luis_Sera89 posted...

Oh, well there's that too. If you're going to give Frog credit to straight up slice the shell, there's at least four stronger melee fighters here who can do likewise.

to address this: i sincerely don't think anyone actually believed this.

...right?

At least one person (they know who they are) did!
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KanzarisKelshen posted...

It's in the conventions Luis (see the first post, 'the following conventions...' and follow the link - for some reason it's not highlighted, idk why). He's definitely gonna be cramped, but not 'literally can't move at all' cramped.

Oh, I didn't think he'd be literally locked in place, but having a yard's room to move is not the same as being able to freely move around without difficulty in a terrain that's smaller than you'd like. Especially not if his spikes get lodged in a wall when trying to do so, which is plausible.
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Kamekguy posted...

My issue with the 'heal' idea is that works under the assumption that the shell is getting one pass at every team. It's getting several, and in that time, Wily is the best suited to do anything. Heihachi can probably honestly camp behind the desk or Bowser himself or something if you're giving time to react (and I honestly think that no one but Alucard "I choose to form into mist through the power of wanting to turn into it" Tepes has that reaction time with the shell travelling at a minimum 24 meters per second, which is, you know, longer than the entire room twice over).

Like if you can get a heal off in less than a second, I commend you there. And then the shell is coming back.

In all likelihood, the shell is getting trapped in something bigger and softer than it, Giga Bowser, on it's return trip, if Jaesa doesn't outright stop it in the first place. I very much doubt it's getting the chance to ping around multiple times.
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greengravy294 posted...

KanzarisKelshen posted...

He's what, three or four Marios/Peaches high? So like 15-18 feet? He can bodyblock the shell if it bounces back at him. It's why I think Alucard's team survives it more or less intact - bowser too big and, as per the Conventions, the room expands vertically so he can fit in if it's not big enough and would get telefragged. That turtle boy's gonna do work here.

thats true i suppose

How is Giga Bowser manoeuvring in this room? He's going to be cramped enough as it is, never mind with the Wily Machine next to him, so how is he bodyblocking it? He'd have to be starting with his back to the enemy in order for it to ping off of his shell, the front of him is a lot softer and would be getting hit just like anyone else could. I doubt he could retreat into his shell on reaction either - if you think the other team can't dodge on reaction, how if someone as relatively slow as Bowser going to?
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And again, unless you subscribe to the belief that the shell can't be stopped and the entire team is getting wiped, or that Flynn and Jaesa both happen to be in it's path by coincidence, they both have instant cast heals (and Salvation is a full heal), whereas the other team does not.

You need to be arguing that things go perfectly for Wily's team where the shell incapacitates everyone to the point they can't even use any of their instant cast spells, to allow the WIly Machine and Bowser to just wail on them without response for them to win. Because otherwise Flynn is fully healing someone strong to take the fight back to them.
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"Eet's game time..."
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Oh, well there's that too. If you're going to give Frog credit to straight up slice the shell, there's at least four stronger melee fighters here who can do likewise.
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Shell is just brutal at these distances. Everybody on team Flynn is getting shellacked by it - I don't think they die but it lets Team Bowser get a powerful first strike, which matters cause Team Flynn would crush them if they didn't get it.

It's worth noting that the shell from DD isn't that big, and the room that small, that the entire team of 6 would be in the direct line of it at the beginning. To suggest they're all grouped together like skittles when there's no reason for them to be is taking liberties too far in favour of Bowser's team.
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Videos of relevant story cutscenes from TOR are impossible to find on the internet, but the offical Star Wars wiki vouches that it's something she can do (under Powers and abilities)

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Jaesa_Willsaam

Off the top of my head, she never has to deal with projectiles, but she does use it to catch falling rocks in collapsing rooms, and held falling giant machinery in place to stop her and the player from getting crushed, so weight isn't an issue either.
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It takes no time at all to use Force TK since it's effectively done psychically and instinctively. Even if you don't think enhanced reactions Selvaria can manage it, it takes no effort at all for Jaesa to stop things like that dead and then toss them back.
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Even without the parameter buffs, Team Haseo are likely a good deal stronger here. Being 50% better on top of that and they just overpower the other team.

Don't get me wrong, this whole match is a mess, but the chaos doesn't really help Team Mantis at all. Giga Bowser and the Wily Machine are big enough that they likely take up all their team's space on their side of the room, and everyone over there is going to find moving pretty difficult. Which leaves them pretty vulnerable to the raw firepower coming from the other side. Double 150% Selvaria for example is pretty nasty just using her Lance where no-one can avoid it. Flynn and Jaesa can even fully heal the party up if necessary, with no cast times.

As for the shell, they have several ways of countering it. Selvaria effortlessly bats away tank shells in-game - this is a bigger target, is moving slower, and her reactions are 50% quicker than normal too. Jaesa also has Force Telekinesis to stop it in it's tracks

In short, Selvaria & co can withstand the initial attack and then overwhelm with buffed up better fighters.
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"Eet's game time..."
https://soundcloud.com/luissera/intro/s-VvkMJ

Maybe tomorrow evening? Not tonight at any rate.
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It's confounding, but I'm sure that Tyrant being there is all for the greater good!

Meanwhile, the CONSOLE WARS are upon us. In preparation, Neptune has been filling in Haseo and Jaesa about how all those .hack games and TOR actually came out on the Sega Neptune.

Flynn brings Great Logos, Luster Candy, Doping and Salvation.

Done.
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"Eet's game time..."
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Flynn talks Alucard over to his way of seeing things.

Naturally, this is all according to the Plan.
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It was mostly a troll EXP amount.
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Oh right, EXP.

10 EXP towards Neptune's ability upgrade, unlocking it.
5 EXP towards Jaesa's passive upgrade, unlocking it.
5 EXP towards Sonic's new pre-battle.
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"Eet's game time..."
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