Lurker > KokoroAkechi

I make a distinction between "Best" and "Flawless". Tetris is the closest thing we have to a flawless game. There have been variations of it, but the base version of the game has been something that has only been altered and not technically improved upon. Pac-Man, for example, is extremely good for a first title, but Ms. Pac Man is just a straight up upgrade in every way.

We get into problems too of impact and design. Super Mario Bros. 1 is a game that is very well designed but in terms of a game is overshadowed by SMB3 and World. But it can't be understated how important SMB1 was to gaming in combination with it being one of the greatest games of all time.

A factor that a lot of 2D games have over 3D titles is that a great deal of 2D titles still hold up quite well because of the limitations of the medium in terms of controls. Being on the N64 in a way holds OoT back because N64 controls largely suck. Take a game like Golden-eye. Very big in getting the console shooter to be popular. But it's ass to play right now. The thing is though, OoT is probably among the most playable N64 games if you would to go back to it right now. Even a really great game like Mario 64 is reasonably hard to play on original hardware. I'd say in terms of how the game plays in comparison to 3d games that came after it (even in its own series) OoT is much closer to say Halo (which is still the backbone of Console FPS games) to Golden Eye.

Which leads us into a matter of timing. Or I guess the Citizen Kane problem. As someone who studied the film I know that it was where many common film techniques really got used (or at least widely shown) to the world for the first time. As a cinematic piece when compared to what we have today it's watchable, but only someone who understands its value and history in that vacuum is going to rank it highly as a film.

Is Pokemon RBY the best mainline pokemon game in terms of like what's in the actual game? No, for as "little" innovation pokemon does each game has done something new and added various intricacies to the battle and world. It does get to a point where maybe enough is enough, but it's hard to say that things like GSC, DPP, XY, B/W are not just objectively better games from a gameplay standpoint. But should we really fault RBY for being the first game in this matter?

The truth is though Videogames as a medium is not really old enough to have a real Citizen Kane quite yet. Or maybe the difference in the medium and how poeple interact with it makes it so there never will be. People are still playing the original SMB1 and I'd say that really old games like Pac-Man, Missile Command, etc are closer to great short films that are not really judged in the same way as what we know as features.

Now as for the question. I do think it's the best game of all time. But I don't know about "objectively" as I'm not sure any game can hit that mark. If anything I think it can be put objectively on a "short" list of games. I use the term short loosely because you can probably argue for up to like 100 games or something based on certain metrics.

It's like saying would Babe Ruth really be the best player in baseball today? We can look at numbers and extrapolate based on his time he played and give him bonuses for modern technology, training ,etc... but since like no one has even really seen him play who is seriously studying the sport (and since he doesn't play today) it's impossible to tell. It's like the Bruce Lee issue. He's become more of a legend then a man and it's hard to tell where the line is drawn.

Also, Majora's Mask is a bad game. Just like purely from a world and level design standpoint every other 3D Zelda game has it beat. One of the reasons OoT has stood up so well is because its level and world design are reasonably strong (with the Overworld being fine and the dungeons being on average very good). While MM pretty much has the worst overworld and dungeon design in the series. And there is 0 way that this "caring about the NPCs" thing or whatever makes it better than the other titles in the series either. OoT, TP, and even Skyward Sword has had their big emotional moments and grand reveals that were simply much more important on the grand scale of things compared to what MM has done. Are you telling me you think the interactions you have with family A in MM is more meaningful in the game then what you have with Midna, Saria, Shiek, the uhh boat (honestly WW is the game I've played the least in the series) or even someone like Groose?

i can draft basically whenever after 7 CST

FK in the coffee. It never fails.

I actually know what this game is

but I havnt actually played it

9.5 for the base game

7.5 if you count the DLC

When he said Matt turk I almost spit out my drink.

Why is there even a new Coke Zero when the old one tastes just fine?

I did

But I admit I also forgot it was because the term one up, extra man, or extra life are just more commonly used

I have an old series one but I currently don't use iPhone so

I'm a yankees fan so I have some investment in the sport but recent years the league has been pretty bad. And until the league ditches some of the ancient crap and maybe even get rid of Manfred, I don't see this changing.

Xtlm posted...

...is this the list I pick from?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_post-punk_revival_bands

That list is... very generous

There's a guy on now who has been winning a lot recently. Like he has been dominating almost every board so far. Still has a long way before he catches Holzhaur or Jennings though