Lurker > KamenRiderBlade

I never realized how energy in-efficient a Light Saber or one of those Star Wars Blasters really are.

They guzzle energy down like nobody's business.

https://www.rakuten.com/blog/how-many-batteries-star-wars/

Lightsabers
Lightsabers are powered by high-output diatium power cells, which are capable of recharging naturally. The blade neither radiates heat nor expends energy until it comes into contact with the solid item it is striking.
Qui-Gon Jinn used his lightsaber to cut into the thick blast doors of Nute Gunrays bridge. The doors were 2.35 meters tall and over a meter thick. Qui-Gons lightsaber cut a circular area approximately 0.9 meters in diameter.
In order to melt 0.87 cubic meters of conventional steel, it would require approximately 1.69 gigajoules of thermal energy. That is equivalent to 469,482 watt-hours, slightly more energy than one lightning bolt.
One lightsaber has the equivalent energy of 120,380 AA batteries (thats 6,000 pounds of batteries or 250 gallons, enough to fill-up a kiddie pool). Its also equivalent to 650 car batteries (thats 26,000 pounds, exceeding the 20,000-pound maximum weight of a single-axle semi-trailer). One lightsaber is also equivalent to 67 Tesla Powerwalls, 0.28 barrels of oil (5.5 gallons of gas), one nuclear reactor or 0.05 seconds of Earths power supply.

Kylo Rens Lightsabers
It doesnt appear there is any reason to assume that Kylo Rens lightsaber was capable of generating any more or less power than any other lightsaber.
In one scene, he is shown using the crossguard to burn through Finns jacket, causing a small burn. A small lightsaber-sized second-degree burn requires about 166 joules of energy as a low-end estimate. It seems it could be assumed that the crossguard blades are capable of outputting similar power to the full-size blade.
How many batteries would it take to power a lightsaber that uses 2.5 gigajoules of energy or 694,500 watt hours? The answer is 180,570 AA batteries or 975 car batteries. Thats equivalent to 101 Tesla Powerwalls, 0.42 barrels of oil, 1.5 nuclear reactors or 0.07 seconds of Earths power supply.

Blasters
According to Han Solo, ancient Jedi weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side. Firing bursts of focused particle beam energy (bolts), a blaster gets its power from two main components: Energy-rich blaster gas from a cartridge and a replaceable power pack.
The blaster bolts carry no heat themselves, but materials struck by them deform and fuse like when Princess Leia blasted a hole through a metal grate using an E-11 blaster rifle while escaping from the Death Star.
A hole was blasted big enough for Chewbacca to pass through, probably about 3 feet wide. An estimate on the mass of the grate is approximately 54 kilograms. Roughly 6.34 megajoules is needed to vaporize 1 kilogram of iron, so the blast yielded approximately 342 megajoules.
Power usage is comparable between lightsabers and blasters. Jedi in the Star Wars universe have been known to use power packs to charge up their lightsabers.
The 342 megajoules to power a baster is equivalent to 24,360 AA batteries, 132 car batteries, 14 Tesla Powerwalls (that would weigh as much as two cows or half a Bantha), 0.06 barrels of oil (approximately 1 gallon of gas; thats $2.29 per shot!), 1 nuclear reactor for three blasts a second, or 0.01 seconds of Earths power supply.

I guess a regular physical Sword FTW, no need to guzzle energy just to cut things

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Are you a MexiCAN or a MexiCAN'T - Johnny Depp 'Once Upon A Time in Mexico'

Tyranthraxus posted...

Eh. That makes for good choreography but there's a few problems with this as a concept applied to light sabers.

1. Real sword forms are accounting for the balance and leverage of the grip. Lightsabers are effectively weightless beyond the handle.
2. Lightsabers are omnidirectional cutting and there are things you can do with a sword that would kill yourself if you did them with a lightsaber.
3. The nature of the lethality of the saber and its cutting potential would lean towards stabbing / thrusting motions to be the predominant method of combat. A real fight would look more like a fencing match instead of a more conventional sword duel.

Blame the Action Choreographer, he's the one who thought of the choreography while using real physical Light-Sabers as stand-ins for weightless Light-Saber blades.

It could be that the Action Choreographer's background wasn't in Fencing, but more into traditional Sword Styles.

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Are you a MexiCAN or a MexiCAN'T - Johnny Depp 'Once Upon A Time in Mexico'

Corridor Digital's new Short titled: "To The Death"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAzY28C8Syc

BtS (Behind the Scenes) on the making of said short and the reasoning behind it's creation and why are there all these changes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hp-D-488Yxk

I really enjoyed it, it's quite different from traditional light saber duels.

I especially liked the realistic use of HEMA / Practical Sword Forms & Techniques and no use of "The Force".

Just a focus on pure swordsmanship.

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Are you a MexiCAN or a MexiCAN'T - Johnny Depp 'Once Upon A Time in Mexico'

CableZL posted...

What do you mean "real motivation?" Like it's some bad thing to want to use the feature as soon as I can possibly get it.

Ask yourself this, why would Tesla have a tiered release system based on Safety Score for their Full Self Driving Beta?

What's their rationale for doing this method instead of releasing it to everybody at the same time?

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Are you a MexiCAN or a MexiCAN'T - Johnny Depp 'Once Upon A Time in Mexico'

CableZL posted...

The longer I go on without qualifying for it, the bigger the risk of something weird happening on the road or me making some mistake that causes my score to lower to 97, 96, 95, etc.

Isn't the onus on you to be a safe driver to keep that score up?

Shouldn't that incentivize you to drive safer, make wiser decisions?

What's the real motivation behind wanting their latest Self Driving Beta?

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Are you a MexiCAN or a MexiCAN'T - Johnny Depp 'Once Upon A Time in Mexico'

CableZL posted...

They're releasing the FSD beta to people with the highest scores first. If I want the FSD beta sooner, then I need to pay attention to the safety score. They released it to people with 100/100 and >= 100 miles a couple weeks ago. They released it for people with 99/100 and >= 100 miles today.

I'm on vacation now and went from San Antonio, TX to Austin, TX to visit my mom. We drove around town for a bit because she wanted to go see the Tesla Gigafactory they're building in Austin. I drove about 180 miles yesterday in total and got my score back to 99.

People with 98/100 will likely get it in the next couple weeks or so. The update I got to day pushed out FSD beta 10.3, which was an upgrade from 10.2. I'm assuming 10.4 will be the next one.

What's a few weeks, I don't think it's that big of a deal to wait a bit longer.

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Are you a MexiCAN or a MexiCAN'T - Johnny Depp 'Once Upon A Time in Mexico'

Why does Elon's "Safety Score" matter to you so much?

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Are you a MexiCAN or a MexiCAN'T - Johnny Depp 'Once Upon A Time in Mexico'

Frolex posted...

(the obvious reason being they aren't professionally qualified to shoot scenes that require blank guns to be directly fired at other actors btw)

More like making YouTube videos doesn't justify using blanks to shoot at another person.

The risk isn't worth it compared to what they earn in terms of income when making random YouTube videos.

They'd rather shoot at inanimate objects at a range than shoot a real person.

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Are you a MexiCAN or a MexiCAN'T - Johnny Depp 'Once Upon A Time in Mexico'

uwnim posted...

That really doesn't prove anything of the sort. All that says is that their preexisting knowledge base, interests and willingness to trust that others will actually do things correctly combined to lead them to learning more about guns.

It says ALOT, that the actors go through proper training and operation of real guns before they go back on set to film.

That takes ALOT of time, dedication, including learning basic Safe Handling & Operating procedures for FireArms.

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Are you a MexiCAN or a MexiCAN'T - Johnny Depp 'Once Upon A Time in Mexico'

https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/d-a-announces-negligence-caused-brandon-lees-death

As a nearly month-long police investigation draws to a close, North Carolina District Attorney Jerry Spivey announces on April 27, 1993 that the death of 28-year-old Brandon Lee on March 31 of that same year during filming of The Crow was due to negligence on the part of the films crew, not foul play.

Filming of The Crow began in February 1993. Around midnight on the morning of March 31, the cast and crew were filming a scene at Carolco Studios in Wilmington, North Carolina. As Lee entered a room, another actor shot him from a distance of 15-20 feet. Though the gun was supposed to have been loaded with blanks, police later found that a .44 bullet entered Lees abdomen and lodged in his spine, fatally wounding him. He died in the hospital hours later of internal injuries, blood loss and heart failure.

As the police investigation began, little was certain about how Lee died, and rumors circulated that the film set was jinxed (there had been a series of accidents), or that his death had been plotted by some unknown enemy. In the end, the truth was far less sinister, but no less tragic. Hollowed-out cartridges are often used to film close-ups of a gun being loaded; the dummy cartridges are then supposed to be removed and replaced with blanks before being fired. The police investigation into Lees death concluded that a tip of one of the cartridges bullets broke off from the cartridge and lodged in the gun, then fired at Lee along with the blank.

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Are you a MexiCAN or a MexiCAN'T - Johnny Depp 'Once Upon A Time in Mexico'

Frolex posted...

obviously not if they're firing guns at people. what happened to NO EXCEPTIONS?

Keanu & Crew for John Wick are trained, I'm sure their protocols for handling FireArms are more stringent than other sets.

Especially since Keanu knows how to properly handle FireArms safely.

Tyranthraxus posted...

Their safety protocol is the exact same as on the set of Rust. They all use the same safety protocols.

Are you so sure? How many of their actors on RUST are properly trained to handle real FireArms?

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Are you a MexiCAN or a MexiCAN'T - Johnny Depp 'Once Upon A Time in Mexico'

Tyranthraxus posted...

Find me a gun YouTuber that regularly shoots at other people I'd love to see it.

They don't shoot at other people for obvious reasons.

Corridor Crew regularly shoots people in their short films, but they use smart Cinematography to cut and paste people in as needed so that they never end up having to actually shoot a person or use CGI instead of blanks.

Meanwhile...

https://www.cnn.com/2017/06/29/us/fatal-youtube-stunt/index.html

(They rehearsed this without another person on the other side and the bullet never penetrated the obstacles)

I remember that incident, she's a dumb regular YouTuber who thought it was a good idea for some reason to do this. Anybody with half a brain could've told her that it was a bad idea.

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Are you a MexiCAN or a MexiCAN'T - Johnny Depp 'Once Upon A Time in Mexico'

Frolex posted...

glad we agree. can't wait to join you for your boycott topic when john wick shoots someone in his next film.

They're already filming John Wick 5, and they've managed to be clean so far.

Their safety record on set says something.

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Are you a MexiCAN or a MexiCAN'T - Johnny Depp 'Once Upon A Time in Mexico'

uwnim posted...

KamenRiderBlade, just shut the fuck up.

You first bub.

They have people to do this shit because it is entirely reasonable for an actor to not know the first thing about guns yet be expected to use one as a prop. Such an actor couldn't do the shit you are saying needs to be done.

Keanu Reeves & Halle Berry took the time, money, and training required.

That inherently proves you wrong.

It's about willingness of the Actors to learn and to do things properly, safely, correctly.

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Are you a MexiCAN or a MexiCAN'T - Johnny Depp 'Once Upon A Time in Mexico'

legendary_zell posted...

Kamen is doing this because it's a guy he doesn't like politically/culturally. That's been clear from the first post.

I actually like Alec Baldwin as an actor; I may not agree with him politically or culturally, but I do respect his acting chops and his work.

Baldwin is going to be viciously hounded as a murderer for the rest of his life by right wingers that already hated him and are latching on to this as a hook for a conspiracy theory. It's already happening in real time and it's disgusting. And I say this as someone who has never really liked him in anything other than the SNL sketch about schwetty balls.

He screwed up, royally.

He bitches about FireArms politically, ALOT.

Yet he can't be arsed to learn the basics of FireArms safety because he's a big Hollywood Elite MegaStar.

While bigger Hollywood Stars than him, like Keanu Reeves & Halle Berry; took their time to do things properly and learn how to safely handle FireArms by learning how to operate them correctly IRL.

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Are you a MexiCAN or a MexiCAN'T - Johnny Depp 'Once Upon A Time in Mexico'

Frolex posted...

exactly. no more scenes that require you to violate the rules of gun safety. we're on the same page dude

Fair enough.

It's weird how Gun Tubers manage to make millions of videos without incident, yet Hollywood manages to screw things up.

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Are you a MexiCAN or a MexiCAN'T - Johnny Depp 'Once Upon A Time in Mexico'

Kain Highwind posted...

why do you keep capitalizing random things

Because I FEEL LIKE it!!

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Are you a MexiCAN or a MexiCAN'T - Johnny Depp 'Once Upon A Time in Mexico'

Frolex posted...

no i'm with you man. no more films where you can you can actually see people getting shot on screen. fuck this culture.

I'm not talking about the cinematography or the content of the movie.

I'm talking about SOP (Standard Operating Procedures) and how they handle FireArms BtS (Behind the Scenes).

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Are you a MexiCAN or a MexiCAN'T - Johnny Depp 'Once Upon A Time in Mexico'

Frolex posted...

Yeah if only there were people whose job it was to enable actors to be able to safely pull the trigger on a gun while pointing it at a person

Yeah, and you keep supporting this broken culture for some reason instead of wanting real change to how safety is handled for FireArms on Hollywood sets.

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Are you a MexiCAN or a MexiCAN'T - Johnny Depp 'Once Upon A Time in Mexico'

Frolex posted...

No. You're just hung up on being triggered by one actor's views on guns, so you keep floundering trying to blame him.

In the end, he's partially responsible too.

He pulled the trigger, he didn't know jack shit about FireArms safety or didn't care.

Doesn't really matter which it is at this point since there's a dead body to account for and another injured one in the hospital.

If he was serious about Safe Handling of FireArms, this wouldn't have ever happened.

But he didn't care, he's another typical Hollywood actor who would rather leave things to the paid professionals instead of accepting personal responsibility for what he did.

It's just easier for rich Hollywood actors to be ignorant of safe operating protocols and handling procedures by leaving it up to their paid Armorers / Prop Masters.

They don't care that it's a fundamentally flawed system.

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Are you a MexiCAN or a MexiCAN'T - Johnny Depp 'Once Upon A Time in Mexico'

Frolex posted...

So now we're shifting back to the earlier asspull about it being the actor's job to maintain the weapons between shots.

You're just so hung up on actors not having to be responsible for anything and leaving all the responsibility onto the Armorer / Prop Master.

Why do you care so much about Hollywoods broken ways of handling FireArms safety?

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Are you a MexiCAN or a MexiCAN'T - Johnny Depp 'Once Upon A Time in Mexico'

Frolex posted...

Ah, now i get it. These firearm safety courses are training people to treat firearms the same way you would a blank loaded weapon. seems a little irresponsible but what do i know i guess

Doesn't matter if it's a "Blank" cartridge in the chamber / magazine, if there is a squib or other foreign object in the barrel, it will get launched out of barrel once you pull the trigger and fire the "Blank Cartridge".

It could be Live Ammo as in Brandon Lee's case when he died via a prop gun, or in this case, it looks like there was a Blank Cartridge involved and some object in the barrel or a squib.

Either way, the wielder needs to show more care and observe basic firearms safety rules.

Having every element of safety only fall squarely on the shoulders of one or a few people is a recipe for disaster.

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Are you a MexiCAN or a MexiCAN'T - Johnny Depp 'Once Upon A Time in Mexico'

https://www.nssf.org/safety/rules-firearms-safety/

Rule # 8 on Safety:

8. Be Sure the Barrel is Clear of Obstructions Before Shooting
Before you load your firearm, open the action and be certain that no ammunition is in the chamber or magazine. Be sure the barrel is clear of any obstruction. Even a small bit of mud, snow, excess lubricating oil or grease in the bore can cause dangerously increased pressures, causing the barrel to bulge or even burst on firing, which can cause injury to the shooter and bystanders. Make it a habit to clean the bore and check for obstructions with a cleaning rod immediately before you shoot it. If the noise or recoil on firing seems weak or doesnt seem quite right, cease firing immediately and be sure to check that no obstruction or projectile has become lodged in the barrel.
Placing a smaller gauge or caliber cartridge into a gun (such as a 20-gauge shell in a 12-gauge shotgun) can result in the smaller cartridge falling into the barrel and acting as a bore obstruction when a cartridge of proper size is fired. This can cause a burst barrel or worse. This is really a case where haste makes waste. You can easily avoid this type of accident by paying close attention to each cartridge you insert into your firearm.

https://www.washingtongunlaw.com/12-golden-rules

9) Be sure the barrel is clear of obstructions before loading and shooting.

https://machinegunsvegas.com/blog/universal-gun-safety-rules/

6) Be sure that your barrel is clear of any obstructions before use.
First, be sure that your firearm is empty by removing the magazine and inspecting the chamber.
I mostly shoot pistols and AR-style rifles, so heres my procedure before using those:
Pistols
Quickly field strip your pistol to the point you can remove your barrel, then ensure there are no obstructions.
AR-Style Rifles
Remove the upper receiver from the lower receiver. Remove your charging handle and bolt carrier group. Ensure there are no obstructions.
No matter what style firearm you are using, never look down the barrel, especially if it is attached to the rest of your firearm. For other firearm platforms, research how to safely check your barrel.

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Are you a MexiCAN or a MexiCAN'T - Johnny Depp 'Once Upon A Time in Mexico'

Frolex posted...

which firearm safety courses cover the safest way to fire a weapon at your co-worker again?

Again, you as the wielder are required to check the barrel for any obstructions that may get launched by a blank.

You are also required to make sure that you don't have live ammo in when you don't need it.

But Hollywood Protocols won't teach you that since they place sole responsibility on the Prop Master / Armorer.

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Are you a MexiCAN or a MexiCAN'T - Johnny Depp 'Once Upon A Time in Mexico'

Frolex posted...

ah so now it's also the actor's responsibility to clean the barrel of the weapon between shots too? this asspull train is just goin all over the place

You obviously don't understand the basics Tenants of FireArm Safety & Handling IRL.

Have you ever attended a Safety Course on how to handle FireArms IRL?

Has anybody taught you how to safely handle guns IRL?

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Are you a MexiCAN or a MexiCAN'T - Johnny Depp 'Once Upon A Time in Mexico'

Esrac posted...

The number is so much higher than every other statistics that I've seen, that I can only assume it is faulty. Or at least suspect.

That's why I posted the Gallup reported stats which are far more accurate and based off a larger sample size.

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Are you a MexiCAN or a MexiCAN'T - Johnny Depp 'Once Upon A Time in Mexico'

Frolex posted...

the gun is supposed to be loaded and ready to fire in those scenes sweetie

Not with Live Ammo or a Squib in the barrel that could get launched with a blank.

Otherwise, how do you explain the dead DP & Director in the hospital?

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Are you a MexiCAN or a MexiCAN'T - Johnny Depp 'Once Upon A Time in Mexico'

Frolex posted...

it's literally the actor's job to do that champ

And before you do your take pointing the gun at the camera, you are supposed to validate the safe condition of your firearm.

But since it's a Hollywood set, they pass the buck onto the Prop Master / Armorer.

They leave the safety responsibility solely on one or a small group of people, and that's where human error can occur, which leads to this kind of tragedy.

It's a FUNDAMENTALLY flawed system.

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Are you a MexiCAN or a MexiCAN'T - Johnny Depp 'Once Upon A Time in Mexico'

Frolex posted...

which basic tenants of firearm safety say you can discharge your weapon at another person honey bunch?

Nobody is telling you to do that.

You, as the wielder of said FireArm, need to check the chamber for Live Ammo and check the magazine for live Ammo before you use said FireArm.

If you intend to pull the trigger while pointing it at somebody or something, you better VERIFY FIRST that there isn't a squib in the barrel that a blank can accidentally launch.

The onus of Safety squarely falls in the wielders hands IRL.

People handle FireArms using the common safety protocols EVERYDAY at Gun Ranges, in Gun Stores, at home, wherever a FireArm is located.

The Safety Protocols are to be observed at ALL times, regardles of if the weapon is Real, Replica, Prop, Fake, Airsoft, etc.

You are required to observe said protocols FOREVER, as long as you wield any weapons.

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Are you a MexiCAN or a MexiCAN'T - Johnny Depp 'Once Upon A Time in Mexico'

Unless you can somehow prove that prop guns are never pointed as camera or other people on set you're talking out of your ass.

Doesn't matter if it's pointed at the camera, before you pull the trigger, you need to check the chamber and the magazine to make sure that:
1) No live rounds are in the chamber or in the magazine for any reason
2) There are no squibs stuck in the barrel where a blank can launch said squib out of the barrel at lethal speeds.

That responsibility is SOLEY on the person wielding said FireArm. They are REQUIRED by the common standard safety protocol to check every time before they handle said FireArm. That's the Standard Operating Procedure we all live by and it has served us well. If you don't take it seriously, then any negligent discharge and the damage it causes is soley on you, the wielder.

That's true in the Gun Community IRL, that doesn't change just because you're doing film work and handling a FireArm for the camera.


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Are you a MexiCAN or a MexiCAN'T - Johnny Depp 'Once Upon A Time in Mexico'

BlinxTheSweeper posted...

And you're assuming that it happened because Baldwin is anti-gun. Which is fucking ridiculous.

No, I assumed it happened because his Anti-Gun attitude led him to never take FireArms Safety Handling seriously or follow the 4 basic tenants of how to safely handle a FireArm.

This isn't his first rodeo in handling a FireArms on set.

I'm sure he's heard about the 4 basic rules of how to handle FireArms, he just doesn't take it seriously.

BlinxTheSweeper posted...

It was a prop gun that went through (or at least was supposed to an entire team and safety procedure.

A flawed system that has led to some deaths on set already.

If he followed the instructions laid by the crew and production and was directed to do what he did he literally did not do anything wrong.

That safety procedure is fundamentally bad. There are so many safety holes with that.

We don't know where the procedures failed.

Does it matter? Or is it about passing the blame onto the poor Armorer / Prop Master so Hollywood can save a buck?

Hollywood doesn't follow the safety protocols that all Gun Guys generally follow and is taught to everybody who handles FireArms IRL.

Hollywood loves to hire their "Specialists" for everything and leave sole responsibility to them, this includes safety and liability along with the ability to lay all blame at their feet.

We don't know how the gun discharged.

Man pulled trigger, gun pointed at camera or general direction of the camera. DP & Director were behind said camera. They got hit.

We only know some limited info from am article and you're making massive assumptions to blame a guy you disagree with politically.

We got plenty of info from it, more than enough to paint a accurate enough picture of what went on.

The guy doesn't take handling FireArms seriously, ergo this happened to him because his attitude towards FireArms has been flippant. If he respected FireArms properly, he would follow all the basic safety handling protocols like everybody else.

There is absolutely no reason to blame anyone with the limited information available to the public other than to be a troll.

In general, if you pull the trigger, you are responsible for what happens. That's how things go.


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Are you a MexiCAN or a MexiCAN'T - Johnny Depp 'Once Upon A Time in Mexico'

Frolex posted...

No, negligence on the part of those people to do their job properly led to that happening.

And Hollywood's SOP (Standard Operating Practices) is fundamentally flawed since it puts all Safety Responsibility soley on the part of the Armorer / Prop Master.

That's a very WEAK system for Safety.

Then say goodbye to any movies depicting an actor pulling the trigger on a gun anywhere but a shooting range. kinda a weird thing to ask for coming form a person who was just pullin his pud over john wick but you do you boo

You don't need a shooting range to do that, you just need to follow the basic tenants of FireArms safety protocols when filming and when handling FireArms.

That means all people on set learn the basic rules, it's not complicated.

Young kids are taught this early on and everybody who is new to guns and takes FireArms training courses are taught this immediately.

It is LITERALLY pounded into your head on what to do and what are the basic Safety Rules.

Keanu Reeves & Halle Berry went and got PROPER TRAINING.

People don't have issues when they are TRAINED Appropriately and take FireArms handling Seriously.

They don't treat it flippantly and not follow the common basic rules for safe handling of FireArms.

Doesn't matter if it's On-Set or at a real Firing Range.

The Standard Procedure for Safely Handling & Operating a FireArm or any weapon is the EXACT SAME. You, the user, are expected to practice this forever.

Doesn't matter if it's a Prop, Real FireArm, Airsoft, Replica Gun.

Your basic SOP for Safe Handling isn't expected to change, EVER.

Safe Handling of a FireArm is taught 1st (Teach them the ACTS, Acronym) <NOTE: Yes, I am borrowing Canada's Gun Safety Handling Acronym>
(A)ssume every FireArm is loaded. If you have even the slightest of doubts if a FireArm is loaded; the answer will ALWAYS be "It's Loaded"
(C)ontrol the muzzle direction at all times. In a worst case scenario of accidental/negligent discharge, you want to make sure that the FireArm is pointed in a Safe Direction such that nothing important gets hurt
(T)rigger finger off trigger and out of trigger guard. You can't accidentally set off the trigger if your finger is nowhere near that trigger
(S)ee that the firearm is unloaded. PROVE it safe. Accidents can happen due to negligence of checking the condition of the FireArm, don't be that lazy person who is the cause of an accidental injury or death.or death.

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Are you a MexiCAN or a MexiCAN'T - Johnny Depp 'Once Upon A Time in Mexico'

BlinxTheSweeper posted...

Trolling over a tragic accident like this is low even for conservatrolls on CE.

There's no trolling here, just disappointment in horrible safety practices / standards.

BlinxTheSweeper posted...

You literally know jack shit about how this happened.

Alec Baldwin pulled the trigger while framing a shot for his movie.

Gun was loaded with a live round for some reason or there was a squib in the gun and a blank launched said squib.

Either way, Alec didn't follow proper basic FireArms Safe Handling & Operating procedures because he never learned it or never took it seriously.

Standard Hollywood practices rely on safety falling squarely in the hands of the Proper Master / Armorer.

That is counter intuitive and opposite the standard operating practices that every single FireArms classes have taught the basic rules of Safe FireArms Handling.

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Are you a MexiCAN or a MexiCAN'T - Johnny Depp 'Once Upon A Time in Mexico'

Frolex posted...

There would have been, because any discharge of a firearm at another person is a "negligent discharge" if they aren't trying to kill you. once again, it's the job of the crew to allow the actors to film scenes that call for them to use a gun in an unsafe way. Next asspull, please.

Again, Hollywood's Standard Procedure to constantly rely on Armorers / Prop Master for all FireArms Safety has lead to this happening on MORE THAN ONE occaision on set.

Brandon Lee's death is a famous case.

Having all Safety be in the hand one of person is just bound to fail eventually.

Real FireArms Safety Protocols requires EVERYBODY in the area to be attentive and follow ALL the basic protocols to handle FireArms safely, NO EXCEPTIONS.

That should be implemented on set for any Hollywood Films.

Not just reliant on their old business model to place safety on one or a few people only.

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Are you a MexiCAN or a MexiCAN'T - Johnny Depp 'Once Upon A Time in Mexico'

OwlRammer posted...

Well dominos has a hamburger pizza, maybe they made a hotdog pizza to compete?

Or they made Pizza Burger?

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Are you a MexiCAN or a MexiCAN'T - Johnny Depp 'Once Upon A Time in Mexico'

Sheeeeesh posted...

snowflake generation

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Are you a MexiCAN or a MexiCAN'T - Johnny Depp 'Once Upon A Time in Mexico'

Frolex posted...

an actor is supposed expect his gun will be loaded and ready to fire while filming these scenes. the props master and armorer are the ones that are supposed make sure the cartridges are loaded safely for the stunts the scene calls for. wise of you to quickly move off from blaming poor trigger discipline tho, wonder what else you'll pull out of your ass next.

And if Alec was trained with the basic concepts of Safe FireArms handling, this would've never been an issue, there wouldn't have been a negligent discharge. But he never took that concept seriously. As a actor, he kept relying on Prop Masters / Armorers to do that job for him. And look where it got him.

He didn't validate what type of ammunition was in his gun before he pulled the trigger.

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Are you a MexiCAN or a MexiCAN'T - Johnny Depp 'Once Upon A Time in Mexico'

Alec Baldwin won't be charged with anything short of Negligent / Accidental Manslaughter.

His company will be sued by the surviving family members.

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Are you a MexiCAN or a MexiCAN'T - Johnny Depp 'Once Upon A Time in Mexico'

Frolex posted...

What part of trigger discipline says it's ever okay to pull the trigger while it's pointed at a member of a film shoot sweetheart?

You validate that your gun isn't loaded with live ammo before you shoot a film. That includes the actor on set validating the FireArm in his hand.

Alec Baldwin obviously isn't trained to handle firearms safely, that's why this incident occured.

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Are you a MexiCAN or a MexiCAN'T - Johnny Depp 'Once Upon A Time in Mexico'

Frolex posted...

almost as if actors have to rely on the work of the armorers and props masters in order to film these scenes safely

Or maybe it's because Keanu & Halle Berry did PROPER FireArms Training IRL before they even went on set to do filming.

They have PROPER Trigger Discipline and know how to Handle FireArms SAFELY due to doing the REAL DEAL by shooting ACTUAL FireArms and train with REAL Professionals like Taryn Tactical. There's no "Safety Gap" by completely relying on the Armorers / Prop Masters for your film crews safety. The stars themselves understand the gravity of the situation when handling FireArms and won't be caught doing dumb shit because they have proper discipline and training.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PR9D4TsniUA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Unp4PaMKezY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_yk7K8-HnfI

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Are you a MexiCAN or a MexiCAN'T - Johnny Depp 'Once Upon A Time in Mexico'

ZevLoveDOOM posted...

so how will this play out? will dude be charged for murder?

Highly unlikely that Alec Baldwin would be charged for murder.

There was no "Intent".

It'll be "Negligent/Accidental ManSlaughter" most likely.

Of course his company will be sued by the families involved.


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Are you a MexiCAN or a MexiCAN'T - Johnny Depp 'Once Upon A Time in Mexico'

Frolex posted...

You have no idea what you're talking about. There were absolutely scenes in John Wick that required keanu reeves to use prop/bank firing guns in a manner that would have been considered extremely unsafe with a live weapon, including firing them while pointed directly at other actors. You're just ultra triggered by one persons views and needed somewhere to cry it out. shut the fuck up.

You first snowflake.

Keanu and his crew managed to film safely, even while doing things that would be considered "Un-Safe".

They're already in production making John Wick 5. So that tells you ALOT, and speaks volumes that their crew manages to do things "Safely".

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Are you a MexiCAN or a MexiCAN'T - Johnny Depp 'Once Upon A Time in Mexico'

Kloe_Rinz posted...

All of this is correct. But, and this is important, if the on-site specialist didnt train them correctly, its still their responsibility. If someone wasnt trained properly, how can they be held liable in a scenario like this? They defer to the expert.

This isn't the first time Alec Baldwin's been on set with FireArms.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alec_Baldwin_filmography

Just look at how long his Filmography is, he's had to deal with FireArms handling countless times dating many years back.

The flaw is largely procedural/protocol based and it's the fundamental desire by Hollywood to have everything rely on one person to do all the safety handling.

Hollywood LOVES to pigeon hole people's roles and have everybody be hired for ___ speciality and they only do ___ role.

It's fundamentally incompatible with SAFE FireArms Handling Protocols that are done IRL.

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Are you a MexiCAN or a MexiCAN'T - Johnny Depp 'Once Upon A Time in Mexico'

Here are real stats taken by professionals:

https://news.gallup.com/poll/329708/lgbt-identification-rises-latest-estimate.aspx

Currently, 86.7% of Americans say they are heterosexual or straight, and 7.6% do not answer the question about their sexual orientation.

https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/US/PST045219
Current US Population estimate as of April 1, 2020 = 331,449,281 citizens
There are about 257,536,092 adults in the US (Citizens who are 18 y/o) which account for 77.7% of the total US Population.

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Are you a MexiCAN or a MexiCAN'T - Johnny Depp 'Once Upon A Time in Mexico'

What_ posted...

No

Yes

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Are you a MexiCAN or a MexiCAN'T - Johnny Depp 'Once Upon A Time in Mexico'

Alteres posted...

Why in Gods name do you keep typing FireArm that way.

Because I feel like it, get over it.

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Are you a MexiCAN or a MexiCAN'T - Johnny Depp 'Once Upon A Time in Mexico'

DuneMan posted...

Well, I'm more referring to the legal standard. In the eyes of the law a person can be expected to rely on the work of a trained professional.

Now for the court of personal opinion, you might find him responsible. Depending on the details that come out other people might sour on his behavior as well. For his part, he'll have to live with the knowledge that he inadvertently killed someone, and that some people will hate him for it.

He's going to be a new/recent cautionary tail of "WHAT NOT TO DO"

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Are you a MexiCAN or a MexiCAN'T - Johnny Depp 'Once Upon A Time in Mexico'

Malcrasternus posted...

Yeah, I don't agree with Alec's views on guns, but this isn't on him man. Especially when for a movie, you rely on experts to make guns as safe as possible for the scene required.

The Fundamental Basic Operating Protocols for FireArms Safety doesn't change just because you're making a movie.

In fact, it needs to be taught to EVERYBODY on set. The fact that it's not and everybody relies on a "Prop Master" to do all the safety handling is what is wrong with Hollywood and why people have died on set.

There are literally TONS of YouTube Gun guys who make home videos on their channels that don't have this problem because they are ALL following the EXACT same Fundamental Basic Operating Protocols for FireArms Safety.

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Are you a MexiCAN or a MexiCAN'T - Johnny Depp 'Once Upon A Time in Mexico'

DuneMan posted...

Here's the rub: if he's relying on directions from a weapon master on set then that responsibility transfers to the trained professional. If the gun was issued for a rehearsal mock filming it should have been properly cleared by the specialist; again, as the professional on set that is their primary responsibility.

I don't buy that, the prop master does their best; but Alec Baldwin is the one handling the gun.

Keanu didn't have this problem when he took his FireArm training at Taryn Tactical while training for John Wick.

He worked with real FireArms and learned the basics of S.A.F.E. FireArms handling along with Halle Berry.

This isn't Alec Baldwin's first time handling a FireArm on set.

This Hollywood style of passing the buck onto the prop master is BS.

EVERYBODY on set needs to know the same safety protocols and live by them when handling a FireArm or any weapon for that matter.

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Are you a MexiCAN or a MexiCAN'T - Johnny Depp 'Once Upon A Time in Mexico'

Pogo_Marimo posted...

A PROP GUN can still be a REAL GUN and I guarantee you this has been explained to Alec multiple times on sets over his career. Many prop guns need to be able to cycle and chamber rounds just like regular guns. You're not going to CGI the gun ejecting cartidges. Only a subset of prop guns are going to be what we call "deactivated", meaning unable to fire, and their only use is for your goons to stand around holding or pointing in people's faces.

Treat all guns like loaded guns until PROVEN otherwise. I don't know how many times those words need to be beat into people's head. This was absolutely inexcusable. Both Baldwin's and the Prop department's are at fault for this woman's death.

This is what happened when you have idiots like Alec Baldwin who are so Anti-Gun that he doesn't bother to learn the basics of Safe Gun Handling, Operation, & Usage; something that anybody in the 2A community gets drilled with repeatedly until it's second nature. His lacksidaisical attitude is to blame, don't just blame it on the prop master.

You're PERSONALLY responsible for everything you point that gun at, if you're going to pull the trigger, make sure you know what's going on inside your gun and if it's loaded with a live round in the chamber, or a blank, or if it's snap cap dummy round.

Don't just treat it like a toy or prop. Alec Baldwin needs to take PERSONAL responsibility / accountability.

If you're dealing with FireArms, EVERYBODY on set needs to know the absolute basics of Safe Handling, Operation, & Usage of FireArms. Have it drilled into them until it's second nature.

Ton's of Gun Guys on YouTube don't have this problem because they learn the basics of Safe FireArm Handling, Operation, & Usage and live by those rules FOR LIFE.

Here are some of the basic rules for Safe Handling, Operation, & Usage of FireArms:

Safe Handling of a FireArm is taught 1st (Teach them the ACTS, Acronym) <NOTE: Yes, I am borrowing Canada's Gun Safety Handling Acronym>
(A)ssume every FireArm is loaded. If you have even the slightest of doubts if a FireArm is loaded; the answer will ALWAYS be "It's Loaded"
(C)ontrol the muzzle direction at all times. In a worst case scenario of accidental/negligent discharge, you want to make sure that the FireArm is pointed in a Safe Direction such that nothing important gets hurt
(T)rigger finger off trigger and out of trigger guard. You can't accidentally set off the trigger if your finger is nowhere near that trigger
(S)ee that the firearm is unloaded. PROVE it safe. Accidents can happen due to negligence of checking the condition of the FireArm, don't be that lazy person who is the cause of an accidental injury or death.

Safe Operating Conditions is taught 2nd (Teach them the SAFE, Acronym)
(S)ee to it that ALL people nearby, around you, and close to you follow the EXACT same Safety Rules so that everybody is operating under similar Safety Protocols & Procedures.
(A)lways be sure that the barrel and action are clear of obstructions.
(F)orbid any usage of a FireArm should you be mentally impaired due to Alcohol, Drugs (Legal or Illegal), Drowsiness, Tiredness, Concussed Status, Mentally Impaired due to a Condition, etc.
(E)mpty all guns when not in active use, take out the magazine or clip, empty all rounds from the tube/cylinder, unload the round in the chamber/chambers.

Safe Usage of the FireArm is taught 3rd (Teach them the SITES, Acronym)
(S)ee the target with your own eyes, never fire at anything you cannot see directly.
(I)dentify the target and make sure that is the target you want to fire at, never ever fire at a target you have not identified positively.
(T)rack all objects around the target; so that should you miss or penetrate the target, those objects would be acceptable collatoral damage.
Objects to the Left/Right/Ahead/Behind/Around the target and those who my be moving into the target area.
(E)xamine for any potential surfaces that might cause a ricochet or cause spawling damage to come back at you.
(S)ee to it that you are a safe distance from the target to minimize / avoid any ricochet or spawling damage coming back at you should you fire at the target.

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Are you a MexiCAN or a MexiCAN'T - Johnny Depp 'Once Upon A Time in Mexico'