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velocycloraptor posted...

primaries are not how you determine the most popular general election candidate if they are closed.

opinion polling shows the most popular candidate in the general (it was bernie)

not saying sanders didn't know that going in. he never said he was screwed, and I don't think he was screwed, but I do think he was fighting an uphill battle that he would have won if it was not set up to benefit hillary to begin with.

I never said Clinton was 100% at fault for losing to Trump, in fact, I said Trump voters share the most of the blame. However, she and her campaign are definitely second most to blame.

Barack Obama overcame the same Hillary Clinton machine in 2008. Just sayin'.
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velocycloraptor posted...

that is a potentially valid point in election years where there is no republican primary (and where they would actually be voting against the stronger candidate...not the case this time)

that is a completely wrong point in the 16 election

I'm not saying Hillary WAS the stronger candidate. I'm saying the PERCEPTION was that she was the stronger candidate (mostly because no one took Bernie seriously).
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Closed primaries prevent shit like Republican voters (who are going to vote Republican no matter what) voting to sabotage what they believe to be the stronger candidate at the time.
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Paratroopa1 posted...

I think there's a good chance that Bernie receives fewer votes overall but carries more states - there's reason to believe that he can carry MI, WI, and PA and I don't know which states he loses that Clinton won

Nevada and Virginia are possibilities. Given that Hillary TROUNCED him in the Virginia primary and narrowly won the state (likely with help from running mate Tim Kaine), he could win Wisconsin/Pennsylvania/Michigan, lose Virginia, and we'd have an even bigger shitshow because Trump would win the election by one state. Also, if he loses Virginia, then Pennsylvania's still in play too.
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Jakyl25 posted...

Minority voters didn't support Bernie over Hillary, but I'm confident against Trump they would have turned out almost as much as they did for her in the general.

If not, that's REALLY cutting off your nose to spite your face

I'm just saying, we were coming off the heels of Barack Obama, the first black president who really got out the vote from minority voters. Hillary didn't have that same level of enthusiasm, but she DID have the Clinton name, and Bill Clinton is loved by those demographics. Replace Hillary with Bernie (who as you mentioned, could not pick up minority voters in the primary), and I feel like you'd have a case of two 70+ year-old white guys running for office, neither of whom did a great job of addressing minority concerns. The way a lot of progressives felt about Hillary being less than enthusiastic about healthcare or free college...I feel like minority voters would feel similarly about Bernie, given how committed he was to his message of targeting issues of the working class and Millennials.
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charmander6000 posted...

I'm still of the opinion that Sanders would have lost worse than Clinton had he won the primary. Some of Sanders' policies would have left moderate democrats voting either Republican or not show up.

I agree. I also think that, given that a lot of Hillary's support came from minority voters, Bernie would struggle to capture said minority voters. This would hurt Bernie a lot more since he'd have to rely on picking up the working class white voters (who would be just as will to vote for Trump like they did in reality), and actually getting Millennials out to vote (which they notoriously do not do.)
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velocycloraptor posted...

are you guys seriously going to pretend that the democratic primary voters are the same thing as the general election voters? all opinion polls showed that bernie did better among ind voters than clinton and did better against trump in the general. hes rn by far the most popular politician in the country. whatever you think of him, all the actual evidence points towards him being more likely to win.

also it should be noted that more clinton primary voters in 08 voted for mccain than '16 bernie voters went for trump when people want to blame bernie voters.

To be fair, when I blame the Bernie voters, it's less for not voting Hillary (I'm aware that they did), but more for their actions leading up to the election. The Democrats had a well-reasoned political debate that Hillary won. More people wanted to vote for her in the primaries. Yet you had vocal voices constantly touting the "DNC screwed Bernie" narrative (they didn't) and just generally acting like it was a chore to vote Hillary because she wasn't as good as Bernie. I don't doubt that the general negative attitude caused depressed voter turnout for the Democrats. It's bad enough when the Republicans are attacking our candidate, but when we're in-fighting, that only hurts us because Dem voters, unlike Republican voters, do care about more than just the letter next to a candidate's name. And they'll look for any reason not to get out and vote.
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Jakyl25 posted...

Corrik posted...

She lost cuz she was horrible. Any decent democrat wins.

Why didn't a decent Republican win?

Because Donald Trump is exactly what the Republican Party wanted by bashing Obama and "the establishment" for eight years. They know voters are dumb and view the presidency as the only election that matters, so if shit's fucked up, even if it's entirely on Mitch McConnell and Paul Ryan, Obama gets the blame. Of course, the Republican Party created a Frankenstein's monster where they didn't realize their voters took "the establishment" literally as a boogeyman, and thus voted the guy who they saw on TV a lot.
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Okay, I remember Lightning slapping Fang, but I didn't think it would be like, two scenes after they met each other.
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I've gotta reopen this argument: Fang is totally black. @GenesisSaga
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Holy shit, Hope broke Snow like...THAT fucking easily? I guess Snow is just like Vanille, trying to put on a brave face to keep from breaking right the fuck down. But still, it was GRADUAL for Vanille. Snow just went full-on Phoenix Wright villain there.
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Okay, THAT'S really fucking weird. You're being hunted by an evil empire that's using you as a scapegoat in order to keep the people from rebelling, but let's stop and check a vending machine so I can get myself a soda. How often do protagonists have SODAS in Final Fantasy games?
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I swear to God, if Hope ACTUALLY grew some balls and decided to straight-up murder Snow right here, giving a complete shock in killing a PC...I would rank this as my favorite FF game. Hands down.
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Yeah, the straight line neon forest was boring. This area is just "fight these super-armored enemies that can one-shot you if you don't take their super armor down fast enough" over and over and over again. And the area is too narrow to even avoid enemies properly. This blows.
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Ah. And now we have the scene that always shows up in this type of fiction. Despite being a little kid and literally doing nothing to actively harm anyone, Hope is looked upon as a villain byt the very people he's trying to protect (and in fact, he used to BE one of those people), and they treat him like a monster, all because he has a weird tattoo. Yeah, this is totally gonna scar him for fucking life.
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Tidus sucks. :P
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This particular section is rather boring. It's mostly running in a straight line, killing the most generic of enemies, and trying to get this over with. It's unfortunate, because the STORY is actually pretty interesting. You have Fang revealing that she is Vanille's ride-or-die, and that they're both from Pulse, which suddenly makes everyone look shitty for shit-talking Pulse in front of Vanille. Plus you have Snow being a completely clueless douchebag that miraculously manages to do and say every thing possible to make Hope want to stab him right in the back. But this is hampered by some EXTREMELY dull gameplay right about now, so that blows.
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Inviso posted...

10:26:11

Vanille

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10:26:11

Vanille
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Why the hell would you add a random catwalk to the game that goes nowhere and serves no purpose? Like, I can understand scenery, but this catwalk literally required the addition of jump capabilities to get up and down from it. For NO REASON.
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Someone should get Vanille, if we're doing miracle saves. >_>
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Oh great. Unlike EVERY other character in the goddamn squad, Fang hasn't been accumulating massive fucktons of CP, so I can't max out her whole grid in one shot. Fucking awesome.
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XD Fang does not give a FUCK about Snow's bullshit. It's hilarious that he now has TWO alpha bitches riding his ass.

Also, fuck this silver-haired Final Fantasy VII: Advent Children wannabe.
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Snow, you dumb motherfucking asshole. Stop inadvertently talking shit about Hope's dead mom.
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I don't know why...Snow just FEELS slower than Lightning despite filling pretty much the exact same role. I think it definitely hurts him that he doesn't have Blitz available, like Lightning and Sazh do for the same job class.
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I feel like Snow shouldn't be able to just run directly up an ice-covered hill like this. Again, feels very unrealistic.
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Bump.
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Balthier
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scarletspeed7 posted...

Faris

Little early.
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Freya
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Thank you Dragon!
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Dragon66116 posted...

Free save

Faris please
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Fran
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Alright, so the previous topic was lost, and all the rules are gone. General information: every generation of Pokemon starts with the first ten in the Pokedex. Five advance. Then a new five face those five, and so on and so forth. This goes until we reach the end of a generation, at which point each round becomes single elimination until we determine a generation winner. At the moment, Jolteon, Feraligatr, Flygon, and Gliscor have won generations and will be involved in the grand finals alongside the winners of Gen V, VI, VII, and the three Pokemon with the longest winning streaks to give us a final ten.

In the event of a tiebreaker, I'll hold a one-off topic to break said tie. Those rounds (same as these poll topics) last 24 hours to determine winners and whatnot. For purposes of this contest, no alts and no rallying.

Also, feel free to discuss opinions and predictions and whatnot.

Dewott is officially the last of the starters standing after Tepig goes out pretty easily, and Dewott survives a five-way tiebreaker. Meanwhile, Krokorok proves too hindered by Krookodile's place in the poll to gain any real traction, and thus misses out on advancing to the new round.

DAY ONE HUNDRED TWENTY THREE RESULTS

9t. Scolipede (1)
9t. Sandile (1)
7t. Tepig (3)
7t. Basculin (3)
2t. Krokorok (7, TB: 3)
ADVANCING
2t. Dewott (7, TB: 6)
2t. Whimsicott (7, TB: 6)
2t. Lilligant (7, TB: 7)
2t. Krookodile (7, TB: 10)
1. Excadrill (8)
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Kenri posted...

Corrik posted...

Inviso posted...

Corrik is the guy who argued that slavery wasn't a bad thing because it used to be legal. He's completely incapable of understanding nuance, or decency for that matter.

Can someone pull out the previous topics and correctly prove that this quoted comment is untrue and of course (as always here) spun to try and debase the opposing sides argument through nonsense.

No, no one can do that, because you absolutely refused to say unambiguously that slavery was bad.

Exactly this. The discussion was about how slavery was morally wrong and under his "letter of the law" interpretation of the constitution, then slavery was fine because it was legal. When questioned on this, Corrik dodged the question entirely, specifically to avoid either saying something that undercut his stupid position (that slavery was morally wrong and shouldn't have been legal) or saying something that unequivocally made him look like a monster (that slavery was perfectly acceptable because it was written into law.)

It's like in that one topic where Smuffin was arguing that the rights of gay people are abnormal because they're such a small portion of the population, but when I pointed out that there are more gay people than Jews, he refused to call Jewish people "abnormal" by the same logic he used against gays. People like Corrik and Smuffin heavily imply shit, but don't actually say things outright so they can fall back on the "I didn't say that" defense and play the victims of "liberal slander".
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Corrik is the guy who argued that slavery wasn't a bad thing because it used to be legal. He's completely incapable of understanding nuance, or decency for that matter.
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Alright, now that Snow's available again, I easily boosted him up to max in his Crystal Grid, and I'm ready to go when I resume playing at a later time.
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I have no idea whose side anyone is on. It's like there's a bunch of in-fighting when there really shouldn't be.
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"We've located the l'Cie."

*Lightning and Hope look up and see themselves on the Kiss Cam. I mean Jumbotron.*

Fuuuuuck.

But then Snow shows up to save the day, because apparently Fang was good the whole time and he's actually working for the betterment of anything? Whatever, I'm just glad to be able to use Snow again since I never got to try out my hot, incestuous Shiva summon before getting captured. But um...why exactly is Lightning running off? At least in other instances, it made sense. She hated the slow pace of the rest of the group, and she's standoffish. But now she's just running off solo for...reasons?
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...seriously, Lightning? You're letting Hope's "we're like pets for the fal'Cie" comment lead you into an existential crisis? The kind of crisis that leads you to completely give up on your plans? Seriously?
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Yes...yes it does, Nio.
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I know it's cheesy, but between Flandragora and Flanitor...Squeenix's flan-based naming puns game is seriously on point.
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So I'm running through pipes, and Lightning seems WAY too tall for this shit. I'm just sayin'.
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Thanks for bumping. I'm gonna try updating this tomorrow.
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Yeah, I'm taking a day or so off from this. It's been a lazy weekend for me.
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The Right LOVE identity politics. It's the only reason they're able to maintain power since they have no real plan for the betterment of our country. Just keep insinuating that "illegals" (Hispanic people) are taking our jobs and that "terrorists" (middle easterners, but also South Asians since it's more about skin color than anything else) are attacking America and that "thugs" (black people) are causing crime to skyrocket, and the gullible, fear-based brain chemistry of the Right will lap it up like dogs.

Unfortunately, the Left does try to use identity politics, but their voters want more than just soundbytes and tribalism, so it doesn't gain the same level of traction.
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Damn, I'm like 1000 away from maxing out Lightning and Hope. I guess they needed more CP than Sazh and Vanille. But it's close enough that I should get it done soon enough. That's fine. I'm done for now and need a break anyway.
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Why am I not surprised that Hope used to play in abandoned tunnels when he was younger?
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Scenes like this are why I love Vanille so much. I'm not saying the "young, perky girl" archetype that shows up in other Final Fantasy games is incapable of depth and emotion, but most of the time, they're relegated to a secondary character slot. You might get a sidequest out of them, but they're there to serve as comic relief while the REAL characters get to work. Vanille though? The way the game is structured, she's just as much of a main character as anyone else, plus she's the game's narrator. So we get to see her struggle with things that WE know, but the other characters don't. As a result, every time she's forced to be cheerful when she just wants to break down and cry...it's heartbreaking.
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Just beat some weird tree dog things that had water and lightning abilities for whatever reason. Was time consuming more than anything else (plus I feel like I kept switching between the two enemies even though that wasn't my intent.) Whatever, I beat them. AND I've already maxed out my crystal grid again 'cause of all the grinding I did pre-boss battle.
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