Lurker > Forceful_Dragon
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| Topic | Politics Containment Topic 313: August and Everything After |
| Forceful_Dragon 08/02/20 10:19:43 PM #125 | red sox 777 posted... eah, I did a back of the envelope calculation. Forget $1 a day for 2000 years. You'd be richer than Jeff Bezos if you saved 1 cent a day for just 1 year, and then invested it for 2020 years at 3% interest a year. so you save $3.65 one time and then just collect interest for 2020 years? No additional savings? With that I get: 302,447,183,254,704,000,000,000,000.00 significantly less than if you continued to make yearly deposits of 3.65 --- |
| Topic | Politics Containment Topic 313: August and Everything After |
| Forceful_Dragon 08/02/20 10:12:07 PM #124 | so saving $365 dollars a year at 1.03% interest for 2,020 years? Threw it into a rough excel sheet and every column added 365 dollars to the previous years value and then multiplies by 1.03. After 2020 years I get: 1,069,554,055,716,380,000,000,000,000,000.00 I think that's probably a bit more than he has, yeah. --- |
| Topic | Sad to see tik tok going away |
| Forceful_Dragon 08/02/20 1:12:18 PM #121 | The stated reason is "national security risk". I doubt the legitimacy of that stated reason. . I'm not defending tiktok as a platform. I don't use it nor do I personally know anyone who does. But this administration has done little to convince me that they are implementing changes in good faith. The fact that this is so close on the heels of "tiktok community makes trump rally look foolish" only sows more doubt about the actual motivations involved. And the fact that there are no proposed changes to the way things work. If the security risk is real them removing access to a single app does not prevent similar such risks in the future. . It was mentioned earlier in the topic but it would make more sense to propose "if you want to have access to the US market them your app needs to meet these specific archer security standards" type of changes and then removing access to platforms that refuse to meet those standards. Rather than vindictively flipping the off switch on one particular platform. --- |
| Topic | Sad to see tik tok going away |
| Forceful_Dragon 08/02/20 12:11:54 AM #74 | red13n posted... , data collection isn't the reason for this ban in the first place so it won't happen. And that's my point. This is vindictive response that doesn't sufficiently prove that it's actually solving a problem and it doesn't offer a solution to the larger problems that it purports to be related to. What we need is legislature about data collecting/selling and some level of transparency or oversight that could be set in place. --- |
| Topic | Sad to see tik tok going away |
| Forceful_Dragon 08/02/20 12:04:38 AM #71 | Data can be misused. I can agree with that. Foreign powers having access to more data is bad for us. I can agree with that. What I haven't seen happen yet is for someone to draw the line between tiktok and either of those other statements. Do I want the chinese government to have a larger pool of data with which to formulate their own plans and agendas? Of course not. But I don't feel like it's been sufficiently proven that the chinese government has access to all of tiktok's data. Clash of Kings is a mobile game owned by a chinese company. Are we banning access to that as well? If the fact that a chinese company owns tiktok is enough to consider it a risk then why not every other app owned by a chinese company. And unless the chinese government doesn't have access to the public facing internet then they can scrape all the same information from our own social media programs regardless. --- |
| Topic | Sad to see tik tok going away |
| Forceful_Dragon 08/01/20 12:39:50 PM #6 | UltimaterializerX posted... Right, but Tiktok is literally a Chinese spy app. I thought it wasn't owned by the chinese government and user data isn't even kept on chinese servers? I don't see how user data from tiktok is any more of a risk than user data from facebook and twitter. --- |
| Topic | Pixar announces new movie and shows one image from it. |
| Forceful_Dragon 07/31/20 2:54:41 PM #3 | concept art I guess? So it's an image from the production of the movie? --- |
| Topic | Politics Containment Topic 313: August and Everything After |
| Forceful_Dragon 07/31/20 2:14:28 PM #50 | If you are spending over $10,000 in a single year on State and Local Taxes then your income is very high. If you are itemizing your income in such large amounts your income is very high. You can afford to not have your federal income further reduced by the amount over 10,000 you pay to State and Local taxes. As such I would disagree with an effort to remove this itemization limitation. --- |
| Topic | I nearly died at the Grand Canyon this week. |
| Forceful_Dragon 07/31/20 12:47:58 PM #57 | Yeah it's supposed to fade with time and the antivenom is really only meant in situations where it can be quickly applied and where the chance of lethality is higher. For an adult male the chance of death is incredibly low so even if I had magically been somewhere that carried the stuff I doubt it would have been used. Wikipedia says there have only been 2 recorded fatalities in arizona since 1968. --- |
| Topic | I nearly died at the Grand Canyon this week. |
| Forceful_Dragon 07/29/20 9:02:45 AM #52 | I'm still waiting for the last lingering numbness to leave my fingertip. --- |
| Topic | This is... |
| Forceful_Dragon 07/29/20 1:59:11 AM #17 | |
| Topic | Politics Containment Topic 312: The Stimulacrum |
| Forceful_Dragon 07/28/20 4:10:59 PM #311 | Corrik7 posted... Also noticed that before you could win appeals a lot. I disagree. --- |
| Topic | Chris social topic. |
| Forceful_Dragon 07/27/20 2:51:24 PM #13 | |
| Topic | I nearly died at the Grand Canyon this week. |
| Forceful_Dragon 07/27/20 9:52:40 AM #49 | Nope, there was another couple that was leaving the bottom just as we were reaching it, but there were no other hikers on the trail on monday. We specifically picked the North Rim because it gets a LOT less tourists than the South Rim. I'd say overall we encountered less people in our almost week long trip than we would have on a single trip to the grocery store back home. --- |
| Topic | I nearly died at the Grand Canyon this week. |
| Forceful_Dragon 07/26/20 1:59:00 PM #43 | Omniscientless posted... Doing the Grand Canyon in one day in July is already a pretty terrible idea. I didn't go rim to rim (20+ miles). And it never even got to 100 degrees thanks to being fairly cool and overcast. We were coming from 105+ degree weather back home so it's not like we were unfamiliar with the heat. I made poor decisions in the moment yes. I attribute that at least somewhat to being sick and fatigued. I don't feel like we were unprepared going into the hike though. Omniscientless posted... And then going off the trail instead of descending back to the camp, Back to which camp, the restroom at the bottom? The campgrounds were many miles away and never in range of us... KingButz posted... Well yeah voluntarily going to Arizona in the summer was the first mistake but I assume he's just a glutton for punishment. Well I wasn't before, but maybe now that I have a taste for it.. --- |
| Topic | You're a degenerate if youve been here for 18 years |
| Forceful_Dragon 07/26/20 2:24:06 AM #14 | Johnny Eagle posted... Is TC calling me a degenerate supposed to bother me? No, he's only talking to people who have been here for 18 years. Since you have been here for 20 years you are no longer a degenerate. Congrats --- |
| Topic | I nearly died at the Grand Canyon this week. |
| Forceful_Dragon 07/25/20 11:03:03 PM #35 | She didn't want to leave me behind. We agreed in hindsight that this was also a mistake since she never felt unable to return to the rim --- |
| Topic | Anyone good with computers? Help me out dont just ignore a friend (Windows10) |
| Forceful_Dragon 07/25/20 10:59:21 PM #10 | Is there a pattern to the beeps? Are they all the same length or are some short and some sustained? How long after turning it on before the beeps start? --- |
| Topic | I nearly died at the Grand Canyon this week. |
| Forceful_Dragon 07/25/20 8:59:51 PM #32 | |
| Topic | I nearly died at the Grand Canyon this week. |
| Forceful_Dragon 07/25/20 6:51:18 PM #28 | Here's a google maps shot to give an idea just how close the helipad was to the trail and how accessible it looked:  The blue line is approximately the off-the-trail route we attempted to take. --- |
| Topic | I nearly died at the Grand Canyon this week. |
| Forceful_Dragon 07/25/20 6:37:04 PM #26 | MariaTaylor posted... No offense, and I'm glad you're okay, but it sounds like a lot of this could have been prevented. It sounds like you went in very unprepared and you're pretty lucky that nothing worse than this happened. I'm also not sure why you would have left the trail. I can't imagine that this would raise your chances of survival in any scenario, and it seems like this is the reason why things turned out so poorly for you. Maybe you know all of this already, but I still feel like it needs to be said because "wow bro I'm glad you're okay" is not very useful information to hear in this situation. I am fully aware and take responsibility for all of this. I still wouldn't say we were "unprepared" because we had a lot of supplies on hand, but in hindsight leaving the trail to reach the helipad was probably a mistake. MariaTaylor posted... Drinking too much water while doing intense physical activity can lead to nausea, cramps, and sickness. I took small sips while hiking and larger drinks when we were had stopped at the bottom for an extended period of time. I was following posted guidance on water intake. MariaTaylor posted... Salty "snacks" and foods will contribute to dehydration. Yes, but having NO salt with too much water will lead to sodium deprivation. MariaTaylor posted... jesus christ this is exactly what I was thinking when I typed up stuff about additional threats The rattlesnake was ON the trail. I'm not trying to minimize the mistakes I made in terms of decision making, I am aware of them. But with that said I also felt like there was at least some semblance of a reason behind those decisions at the time. I'll try to pull some photos from my wife's phone, maybe it will help to see just how close the helipad appears from the trail, because our major wrong assumption that spiraled the situation was that if there was a building/helipad that there would be SOME sort of intended way to reach it. --- |
| Topic | I nearly died at the Grand Canyon this week. |
| Forceful_Dragon 07/25/20 6:11:28 PM #18 | We had texted my wife's sister that morning, with a picture of us saying "we're going on this trail, we expect it to take this long, we'll text you when we get back to the hotel". We didn't EXPLICITLY say "if you don't hear from us please CALL someone", but we didn't think we had to. She just assumed we didn't have service (despite the fact that our hotel was 45 minutes away from the canyon and had good internet) and her family was only just starting to get concerned by the time we made it out of the canyon the following night. I guess we should have been more specific. And so I'm glad we pushed ourselves to get off the ledge rather than "waiting it out" for someone to search for us. --- |
| Topic | I nearly died at the Grand Canyon this week. |
| Forceful_Dragon 07/25/20 6:04:00 PM #15 | redrocket posted... How much hiking have you done previously this year and what was the difficulty level? Well we had done a 10 mile trail (5 miles each way) two days prior that stayed on the rim of the canyon. It still had about 1000 feet of elevation change so it was a fair amount of uphill and downhill both directions. And I was tired at the end, but I got through it and it wasn't anything like I experienced on monday. And so we used that 10 mile trail with 1000 feet of elevation to gauge our readiness. And that was on Saturday. On sunday we took it easy just to make sure we'd be rested for the harder trail monday. But my wife and I walk for several miles in the evening just to stay active and yeah it's flat land, but it's still generally 90 degrees or hotter right now because of how hot it's been in fresno. So it's not like we weren't used to walking in the heat. But again, I could have played it much safer and we could have turned back rather than attempting to do the entire hike. I just wasn't aware of my limits. --- |
| Topic | I nearly died at the Grand Canyon this week. |
| Forceful_Dragon 07/25/20 5:59:17 PM #13 | Oh and I forgot there was a rattlesnake I had to chuck rocks at until it ran away at one point because it was blocking the trail. This was shortly before our water section. Emeraldegg posted... So wait, why exactly were you vomiting in the first place? Just overexertion? Would that alone really cause someone to be unable to keep stuff down, rather than just a one-time vomiting? I couldn't tell you. I thought I was doing everything right, but then I simply hit a wall. Emeraldegg posted... Also that sounds pretty stupid the bit about the helicopter being booked. What, that's the ONLY helicopter within flying radius? They can't phone another district for help or something? i dont know. I was trying to be really insistent that I didn't think I could make it out under my own strength, but it was dismissed as not possible. I think the pump station employees are the only ones who get dropped off and picked up from there and only by the single grand canyon helicopter. And that the medical helicopter COULD use the helipad, but was too busy that day because...reasons? And that tourist helicopters were not allowed to go that low into the canyon or use that particular helipad so I couldn't have even placed an order for one of those. Oh and it goes without saying that we had no cell service the entire time or we'd have called 911 before night fall the day before. --- |
| Topic | I nearly died at the Grand Canyon this week. |
| Forceful_Dragon 07/25/20 5:49:05 PM #7 | Moonroof posted... That is insane. Im glad youre okay! Do you think your issues were due to the elevation difference causing you nausea? I really can't explain the nausea on monday, but the nausea on tuesday can be explained by the scorpion. The Arizona bark scorpion is the most venomous scorpion in North America, and its venom can cause severe pain (coupled with numbness, tingling, and vomiting) in adult humans, typically lasting between 24 and 72 hours.[3] Temporary dysfunction in the area stung is common; e.g. a hand or possibly arm can be immobilized or experience convulsions. It also may cause loss of breath for a short time. Due to the extreme pain induced, many victims describe sensations of electrical jolts after envenomation. I was lucky that my hand an arm weren't immobilized because I needed the functioning army to get back out, but god did it hurt. And yeah it could certainly have been responsible for vomiting on the way back up. --- |
| Topic | I nearly died at the Grand Canyon this week. |
| Forceful_Dragon 07/25/20 5:46:02 PM #6 | VintageGin posted... Aren't you supposed to start before sunrise if you're hiking down in the summertime? That's what my wife tells me anyway I mean it was shortly after sunrise? But maybe. In any case it wasn't any hotter in the canyon that it has been back home in california. And I was getting plenty of water and salty snacks on the way down so I felt like I was well preparing myself for the trip back up. We had lots of water (well, before I threw up a bunch) lots of food, change of shoes (which came in handy after we spent an hour wading through several feet of water), and it just ultimately came down to I was not able to make it down and back up in a single go. --- |
| Topic | I nearly died at the Grand Canyon this week. |
| Forceful_Dragon 07/25/20 5:34:30 PM #2 | -There were thankfully employees here, but this was NOT a tourist helipad. The small building attached to the helipad was a Pump Station, where they were treating and pumping the spring water to be used as a fresh water source for the canyon. There were 4 of them I believe and they were busy doing whatever it was their job was at the pump station, but they were very gracious and provided us with food and water and a spot to sit out of the way. The helicopter that we had seen coming and going was just to take employees from one spot to another it seemed, and did not have any room or time to spare to take us to the rim. -They also contacted search and rescue to see if there was a medical helicopter available, but despite it being only about 8:30 AM, apparently there were too many medical emergencies at the south rim that the medical helicopter was completely "booked" for the day. I really didn't understand this, but I felt like I in medical need, and didn't understand how they would know they wouldn't have time for me the entire day, but it wasn't really my call to make I guess. -A ranger had been assigned to hike out to us and examine us because the pump station employees aren't medically trained, he reached us around 10:30 AM. I explained that I was dehydrated, fatigued, my arm felt like it was on fire (probably a scorpion he said), and I was having trouble keeping food and water down despite knowing I needed to force myself to eat both. He spoke with his bosses and they confirmed that there would be no helicopter available, I would have to walk out. He also said they could try and order a mule, but they would have to bring someone in on their day off and it would cost probably $1000 to get a mule ride back to the top. I think he was expecting me to say no based upon the price, but I agreed and asked him if they could set it up. Come to find out that despite having lost 80 pounds since this time last year I'm still over 200 and thus ineligible for a mule ride. They asked me my age and weight when I first arrived so I was pretty annoyed that they even offered the mule service if they were going to turn me down after 30 minutes of playing phone tag with the mule handlers. -I spent the next 3~ hours sleeping and being nursed back to health. The ranger gave me some ramen broth that he had handy that was actually wonderful and one of the few things that my stomach was easily accepting of and at around 1:30 with no other options available we started to walk back from the helipad to the trail to get back out. Now bear in mind that there is still NO real path from the trail to the helipad, but the ranger was assigned to stay with us until we made it to safety so we were able to follow his route. This still wasn't easy because there was a bit that was something like a 45 degree angle for around 75 feet where we basically had to walk straight up through very lose rocks and sand without falling backwards and off a cliff, but we eventually made it to the trail properly. And with some actual sleep under my belt and some nourishment I was still far from feeling good, but I'd say I was maybe at least 40 or 50% strength and so we started up. Now granted this trail is supposed to only take about 6 hours. That's both ways. 3 hours down to the bottom. 3 Hours back up to the top. In my state it still took us 7 hours to get from the bottom to the top. I had to stop frequently, I threw up a couple more times, but shortly after 8 PM we made it back to the top of the trail and to our car. After reviewing the types of scorpions in the grand canyon it appears likely that it was an Arizona Bark Scorpion that stung me which is one of the nastier options i guess. But they are very small and pale so that also explains why I might have simply not seen it when I shined a light in the area after it happened. But the paint did not begin to diminish until Thursday morning a bit after 48 hours after it worked it's way up to my shoulder. And even now that the pain has subsided I still feel a tingly numbness in the tip of my finger where it happened that might not fade for awhile yet. Bark Scorpions are not often fatal, but it does seem like my reaction was somewhat worse than average as well. In conclusion, we left before 8 AM on Monday and got out after 8 PM on Tuesday. 36+ hours of what should have been a 6-8 hour hike. It was an altogether harrowing ordeal and I found myself on many a dangerous precipice throughout. I also wholly accept that this would have been prevented if I had simply known my limits and not tackled as difficult a trail. I feel incredibly guilty about the whole thing and it's not an experience I will ever want to repeat. It is also not an experience I think I will ever forget. Here's a picture of the trail that I added a yellow marker for the spot where the trail ends and a blue marker for approximatey where the helipad is so you can kind of see where we had to work our way towards it.  Questions? --- |
| Topic | I nearly died at the Grand Canyon this week. |
| Forceful_Dragon 07/25/20 5:34:13 PM #1 | I was in the process of putting together a long story but couldn't really figure out what details to include or skip and it was feeling kind of run-on so I'll just cover the bullet points and you can ask questions if you want. -Monday, July 20th at 7:45 AM my wife and I started down the North Kaibab Trail. Our plan was to get down to Roaring Springs and then back up. It's about 5 miles each way with an elevation change of around 3500 ft. -We made it down without incident and rested at the bottom around noon. There were some restrooms at the bottom of the trail and a somewhat flat spot where we were able to rest near a creek. -We started back up about 1 PM, but less than 30 minutes into the trip back up I knew there was a problem. I had been drinking plenty of water and eating salty foods, but progress was slow, we were less than 10% of the way back up and I started throwing up all the liquid I had left in me. We had each brought 40 oz canteens and I was carrying an extra gallon of water in my backpack which seemed like plenty of water for our hike, but I threw up a bunch at this point and my body was having trouble keeping any more water down. -At around 2 PM I knew that based upon how I was feeling and how unable I was to press on or keep anything down that I was not going to make it to the top under my own power. We were still pretty close to the bottom of the trail. From the trail earlier we had seen a Helipad just a bit off the trail and we saw helicopters dropping people off and picking people up every 30 minutes or so. We hadn't seen any obvious way to *reach* the helipad but we knew it was there and it didn't seem very far off the trail. We decided to try and reach the helipad and ask for help. We assumed this was a helipad for canyon tours and things like that, and that these were tourists that were coming and going. -We reach a part of the trail where we're maybe a football field away from the helipad. It's so close we can almost taste it. It's below us, but we see a stretch that looks like we should be able to climb down and reach it. We make our way down a fairly steep bit, but one thing we couldn't see from the trail was that there was a ledge above a 20-25 foot drop we could't progress any further. We have a clear view of the helipad and it's maybe 100 feet away or less at this point. We also don't feel comfortable going back up the route we had just taken to reach the ledge we were on. We're stuck. On a ledge that was less than 4 feet wide, and was very uneven with loose rocks. It's about 4 PM at this point. 3 more helicopters came and went over the next 90 minutes and despite our brightly colored clothing and waving our arms they didn't appear to notice us. -We were on the ledge until 7 AM the next morning. We tried to sleep but there wasn't much room and it was scary knowing that if we rolled the wrong way in our sleep that could be the end of us. We did have some supplies though. I had packed a survival kit that is normally in the trunk of my car. It had emergency rations (we weren't hungry), extra drinking water, one of those foil blankets (it was actually uncomfortably warm all night so this became a pillow), a 12 hour glow stick, a whistle, a poncho and a few other things. -I wish I could say the stay on the ledge was uneventful, but at about 2 AM I reached to move the glowstick (I think I was going to try and stand up to urinate), but when I was setting my left hand down I felt an immediate fiery pain in the tip of my finger. Something had bitten or stung me. I flipped the light on my phone in the area as quickly as I could but I didn't see anything there so I couldn't identify what it was. Over the next two hours the burning in my finger spread up my arm until my entire arm up to my shoulder felt like it was on fire. The pain didn't get any worse at this point, but it also didn't get any better for nearly 2 days, so for the rest of this just keep in mind that I still had use of my left hand/arm, but any time I used it to do anything I was met with excruciating pain. -At 7 AM we decided to leave the ledge and try and make it back to the trail. My wife had gotten maybe 2 or 3 hours of sleep and I had maybe 90 minutes that I got before I got strung by whatever. I wasn't sure we were going to be able to make it back up the section we had gone down, but it seemed better than hoping for more helicoptors to not notice us. It took us about half an hour but we struggled our way back to the main trail, and I felt even less prepared to walk to the top of the rim than I did the day before. One thing we did note however is that the bottom of the trail where we had rested had some restrooms and there was a creek that ran nearby. It appeared that the same creek wound its way next to the helipad as well. So we decided to go back to where we had stopped for lunch the day before and to follow the water to the helipad. -Again this was no true path, the path through the water was maybe a mile long and there was more of an elevation difference between where the creek started and where it crossed next to the helipad. There were multiple drops in the water of 10-15 feet, and in some instances they were sloped and we could ride the rocks down like a steep slide, and in other cases we had to exit the water and try and find sections on land that would take us back down to the water. For the most part we tried to stay in the water and simply wade through it, it was maybe 3 feet at the deepest but was generally shallow so we did a lot of wading. It was also very overgrown with scratchy trees, but after about an hour of this we finally reached the helipad, with our arms and legs very scratched and irritated, and with us starting to run low on our water at this point. --- |
| Topic | You guys still doing okay? |
| Forceful_Dragon 07/23/20 9:44:29 PM #25 | nintendogirl1 posted... Anyone still here?!!! How are you? I remember you helped me through a tough time years ago and I tried to get into contact with you after you left the board and thank you, but couldn't figure out how, lol. --- |
| Topic | My impressions as I play Octopath Traveler for the first time. |
| Forceful_Dragon 07/22/20 4:52:56 PM #7 | |
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