Lurker > Evillordexdeath

Yes

Samus

On You Crazy Diamond

A Cruel Angel's Thesis

Locke 6

A Cruel Angel's Thesis
Idol

Locke 5

Locke 4

Locke 3

Locke 2

Locke

gravityWall
A Cruel Angel's Thesis

Yes

His lobster monologue is legendary

Allied Mastercomputer (I Have No Mouth and I Must Scream)
Eric Cartman (South Park)
Dolores Umbridge (Harry Potter)
Griffith (Berserk)
Hannibal Lecter (The Silence of the Lambs)
Judge Holden (Blood Meridian)
Luca Blight (Suikoden II)
Mephistopheles (Faust)

It's not crucial to the game or anything, without the clock your berries won't grow (so planting them is a waste) and a few other daily events (lottery, berry hand-outs) will only happen once. Actually speaking of Feebas I think this makes it kind of hard to evolve. You won't be able to go to Mirage Island either. Still almost everything in the game works, I've replayed Gen 3 a couple times without the battery and it didn't change the experience very much.

Hadaka no Yuusha
A Cruel Angel's Thesis

Had to come in just to vote for the GOAT anime theme

Shadow

Sesame

Underleveled posted...

It also had the highest RT score

I'm concerned if even the best movie on the list isn't very good :p

According to the average scores on Letterboxd, It Happened One Night would have been the second-best movie on the list, behind Little Miss Sunshine.

To the League of Draven

Of the Colossus is one of the all-time greats

I think I was misremembering the specifics and she figures out a sort of sling arrangement to feed the baby with and then drops the gold hands to change his diaper. The idea is the same either way though, at first it seems like she can't breastfeed the baby because of her missing hands but once she leaves the keep and has to survive on her own she figures it out. That could seem like it was pointless but it could also be taken to show her character growth. The problems she has as a result of her missing hands and how she overcomes them (because she always does), is a big part of the film, I enjoyed that aspect throughout but it's fair if you thought it was poorly conveyed.

I think even without that the breast milk scenes have some narrative purpose, since they show her happiness at becoming a mother (the first scene where she's just had the baby and she like sprays some milk out for the hell of it lol) and then her sadness at that getting taken away in the scene where she gets bound up and then watches a wet nurse who is just represented as a rack of breasts. imo that's all the justification it needs, both scenes help communicate what The Girl is feeling at that point.

But I also think even if they did just force in an excuse to show boobies that wouldn't be all that bad, we are genetically coded to find them appealing after all.

Johnbobb posted...

Compare that to something like The Bad Guys, where the fart jokes aren't a one-off subtle thing, but they visually take up the entire screen for an extended period of time, repeatedly throughout the entire runtime of the film, and it becomes pretty indicative of the movie's sense of humor as a whole, nearly to the same extent that food sex jokes were the basis of Sausage Party's humor

Yeah I think this is something that's important to me, I generally find the handling of all these "taboo subjects" better the less the thing is commented upon, so GWH having nudity that's fairly incidental is better to me than TBG making a whole deal out of Awkwafina trying not to drown in fart gas, which just got tedious, but to further defend it I just feel the fart scenes are the most blatant example of what I didn't like about the movie throughout. There's also a scene where either the Piranha or the Shark, I can't remember which, argues with Moss about whether a rock looks like a butt, and my problem with that scene definitely isn't the mention of butts, I mean I like looking at butts, it's just that they keep going back and forth and back and forth about whether it's a heart or a butt and it just draws out a joke that wasn't very clever in the first place. There's no sense of comic timing, and when you contrast it against something like The Big Bad Fox on the same list, involving the same animals, and also having Bad in the title but having a so much more disciplined mastery of comic timing it just comes off as really lame.

Well The Girl Without Hands successfully feeds the baby only after she drops the golden hands, right? I think the contrast between her not being able to do it (and how much that upsets her) with the hands, then being able to do it without them, serves to reinforce the idea that the prince while well-meaning doesn't really understand what she needs when he gives her the golden hands, and how learning to get rid of them is part of her character arc about learning to live on her own.

The gardener kills the fawn because the letter he gets from the prince, which the devil replaced, tells him to kill the baby and take his eyes, so he kills the fawn instead so he can keep the eyes in a box and show them to the prince when he returns. It's the same idea as the Snow White scene where the hunter presents the evil queen with a pig's heart instead of Snow White's. It might have been something of a trope in fairy tales of that time. It turns out to be sadly unnecessary, but from the gardener's perspective, at the time he does it, it makes sense to sacrifice the fawn as a way to protect the girl and her son, since the prince won't hunt them down when he comes back if he thinks they're dead.

The Waltz with Bashir dog scene... I think that one was more just intended to add another story about how the war fucked someone up and made them feel guilty, I mean that was probably something the director actually heard in an interview and I felt it did a good job introducing the kind of tone the reminiscences would carry for the rest of the movie. It's still completely fair not to like it because you dislike seeing violence against animals, though I think that on its own wouldn't really work well as a criticism.

One point I'd bring attention to is that not every visual choice a director makes necessarily has to advance the narrative. I think "plot" is over-emphasized in the writeups here too personally. An example of nudity being even more "superfluous" in The Girl Without Hands is that giant naked river lady that lifts the Girl up to eat fruit, there's no reason why she couldn't be wearing an elegant mermaid dress, but if she were, would we have to analyze how her dress advances the plot? The point of the nudity in Waltz with Bashir probably is just because they're in water and it makes the scene feel slightly more jarring by showing something taboo, and that's enough to make it a useful artistic choice even if it doesn't strictly need to be there, but we're probably more likely to analyze why something is included, and get upset about whether it should have been or not, if it challenges social taboos, whether via nudity or farts.

Suprak_the_Stud posted...

Wow, fun analysis exdeath!

I do wind up siding with the art snobs more than I don't, but I feel like in every list I've done there's been one or two I'm way off on. For horror I think it was just Babdook and Halloween (and Get Out which I had ranked 17th but I was an outlier for everyone on that), but here I knew there would be more because I watched a lot of these with my kids and I knew that influenced my ranking more than it would've otherwise. Like Bad Guys was my oldest sons favorite book series and we read them all during COVID - I knew that wasn't going to be a frame of reference a lot of people had.

I'm shocked Big Bad Fox was not universally art snob approved.

I didn't even know The Bad Guys was adapted from a book series, so that makes one person with a totally different perspective! You know, as great as I think the Wolf, Snake, and Fox designs for the film are I wasn't as impressed by the Shark, who I actually find more charming on the book covers. I did know that How to Train Your Dragon was also adapted from a book series and was probably changed even more drastically than The Bad Guys for the film version. I'm a little curious to see if I'd like the books more.

Johnbobb's writeup on The Big Bad Fox was very positive, but he still ended up ranking it 12th, which might give some credence to the idea that art snobs have more fun with these lists. It's hard to say how Mythiot felt except that it was smack in the middle of his list. The movie occupies an ambiguous position as an art film, being French automatically gives it Artsy Points and the traditional animation style helps, but there's nothing about the subject matter that couldn't be included in a mainstream American film. I think the greatness of the movie and its source material is entirely in the artistry with which it's all executed, which could be argued to be the truest form of art film, but the definition of "art film" has definitely been rendered completely meaningless in these topics lmao. I just take it to mean "any movie Exdeath likes".

Espeon posted...

oh, you did that in the time between me typing the post and actually posting

lol yeah I saw you got ninja'd and was wondering if my second list covered that, I wasn't 100% sure who all on here is a furry except you, Red, Ermine and myself

And now here is what it would be like with the Snobby Art Jerks removed:

30. Yellow Sub 131 (-6)
29. Sita 131 (+-0)
28. Ne Zha 118 (-3)
27. The Hobbit 113 (+-0)
26. Waltz With Bashir 113 (-11)
25. The Willoughbys 105 (-3)
24. The Girl Without Hands 103 (-7)
23. Strange World 98 (+3)
22. Angry Birds 98 (+8)
21. Lightyear 95 (+7)
20. Wendell and Wild 95 (-6)
19. The Sea Beast 85 (-3)
18. Flee 84 (-8)
17. Birdboy 83 (-7)
16. Early Man 73 (+4)
15. Vivo 77 (+4)
14. Sing 2 77 (+9)
13. Pinocchio 66 (-9)
12. DC League of Super Pets 65 (+9)
11. Turning Red 63 (+7)
10. Ron's Gone Wrong 62 (+3)
9. My Father's Dragon 62 (+3)
8. The Big Bad Fox 60 (-1)
7. Apollo 10 1/2 58 (+4)
6. The Little Prince 55 (+2)
5. The House 52 (+1)
4. Marona 40 (-2)
3. Encanto 28 (+-0)
2. The Bad Guys 20 (+3)
1. Puss in Boots 6 (+-0)

Here Yellow Sub loses an epic double tiebreaker with Sita over last place, Puss and The Bad Guys get incredibly impressive top 2 scores, and Sing 2, Angry Birds, and DC Super-Pets are the biggest beneficiaries, but we also get Apollo, My Father's Dragon, and Ron's Gone Wrong breaking into top 10. I got too tired to calculate outlier scores for this list, since there was no juicy question of snob credibility to answer, but Inviso would lose a lot of points while Karo would gain some, and I think you'd end up with everyone closer to the middle as you would expect from giving each person more "control" over the final placements.

I calculated out what the list would look like if only the original Snobby Art Jerks Alliance voted, with scores and the movement for each film indicated in parentheses:

30. Angry Birds 113 (+-0)
29. Lightyear 106 (-1)
28. DC Super Pets 100 (-7)
27. Sing 2 97 (-4)
26. Strange World 93 (+-0)
25. Early Man 87 (-5)
24. Sita 83 (+5)
23. Turning Red 82 (-5)
22. The Hobbit 81 (+5)
21. Vivo 76 (-2)
20. Ron's Gone Wrong 74 (-7)
19. My Father's Dragon 70 (-7)
18. Ne Zha 70 (+7)
17. The Bad Guys 69 (-12)
16. The Willoughbys 64 (+6)
15. The Sea Beast 56 (+1)
14. The Little Prince 56 (-6)
13. Apollo 10 1/2 56 (-2)
12. Yellow Sub 48 (+12)
11. Encanto 44 (-8)
10. Wendell & Wild 43 (+4)
9. The House 41 (-3)
8. Girl Without Hands 40 (+9)
7. Flee 35 (+3)
6. Birdboy 35 (+3)
5. The Big Bad Fox 34 (+2)
4. Marona 29 (-2)
3. Puss in Boots 27 (-2)
2. Waltz With Bashir 24 (+13)
1. Pinocchio 17 (+3)

Definitely an art snob kinda list. Outlier scores would be as follows:

Suprak 197
Johnbobb 126
Exdeath 120
Mythiot 110

Suprak's high score adds a lot of credibility to his initial rejection of the claim that he fits in with this crew, while the other three are all quite similar. Removing Suprak would create a "true snob" list where Sita escapes the bottom 10, Yellow Submarine is a top 10 film, Marona is first, and The Bad Guys is in the bottom 10 where it belongs. It would also drop my precious Big Bad Fox to like 12th, so I end up preferring the snob alliance when it includes Suprak.

Johnbobb posted...

So I'm a little salty (not much, not like this is The Bad Guys) on the winner but I'm also mostly the only one that feels that way so I'll accept it.

I'm there too a little bit, mostly because I like to be a contrarian asshole. I do think Puss is a genuinely good movie, almost undeniably one of the best Dreamworks has ever put out, but reading such effusive praise for it when a few other movies I loved so much more wound up way below its score makes me feel a little bit grumpy lol, I start thinking about how overhyped it is an have to consciously remind myself I also liked it.

Zigzagoon posted...

The eye scenes happen thrice and last 10 seconds a piece, or less. (I don't care for them either for the record), but at least the 2nd leads to a fantastic line by Kitty. And the third leads to him actually pulling it off and a good reaction from Jack Horner.

Meanwhile breast squeezing in Girl Without Hands goes on for like 2 minutes but everyone is A OK with that.

You people are crazy.

Next you'll be telling me the 3 minutes of literally food fucking each other in Sausage Party was fine.

I do think my issues with Perrito are more subjective, something about how he looks and sounds just gives me a bad vibe. I was honestly pretty baffled when I read your writeup on Girl Without Hands because I barely remembered the breast milk scenes, for me the part where the Girl and her son shit to fertilize the crops was more memorable. It made more sense to me when you took issue with the nudity in Waltz With Bashir, which even though that scene reoccurs I think is really mild and attention isn't really drawn to it, so it made me think you just dislike nudity a lot. And that's normal, it's even something that North American culture teaches people to feel I think, because I felt similarly for a large portion of my life, but not too long ago I sort of realized that it was more something I was raised to feel, in part because I learned that other countries like Japan and France are a lot more lax about it. And after that I came to kind of see the prudishness of American culture as an unfortunate thing, in part because I'm gay (in case my comments on the male wolves throughout these movies didn't make that obvious), and so the association between nudity/sexuality and shame made it harder for me to be honest about that part of myself growing up.

So for me I kind of appreciated what I saw as the naturalism of the use of nudity and bodily functions in Girl Without Hands, and I think it would've been a mistake for a movie that opens with a teenager getting her hands chopped off by her own dad to then start shying away from those things. I didn't really remember the milk squirting scenes that well specifically and ended up rewatching them to see if they were worse than I remembered lol, and honestly I think the scene is kind of cute, it's an expression of her happiness about having a kid so it serves as a nice moment of relief in a movie where the protagonist goes through a lot of adversity.

Okay now the French girl's boobies are definitely one of the most talked-about subjects on this (unless I'm mistaken) all-male movie list, who would've figured. I can't speak to Sausage Party except that I haven't seen it and don't feel like I'm missing out. It doesn't seem nearly artsy enough for my taste.

plasmabeam posted...

Hold on. Gabby exists.

Yeah Gabbi is probably worse than Perrito in a vacuum but Perrito ends up negatively impacting the film more for me. Vivo was probably never going to be anything besides a 2.5/5 movie for me and Gabbi didn't really change that, for me the biggest problem with the movie was probably the old man dying which to me felt cheap and contrived rather than emotional, so by the time Gabbi came into things I was already relatively checked out of the movie and it was past the point of being able to become the best version of itself, since I would've liked an old man + monkey journey most. Perrito in comparison takes a movie I probably would've been happy to watch again and makes me not want to watch it again (I'm sure I'll get over it one day), and Mr. Piranha just kind of embodies everything that made The Bad Guys such a disappointment to me. I had an "oh no, this movie's gonna suck" reaction to his first scene similar to what Johnbobb described in his writeup. I also hate Moss' character in that movie more than Gabbi, he's such a little charisma void.

Yeah after rethinking it I'd say Perrito and Mr. Piranha are the worst characters of the list to me. I liked the panic attack scene but when I think about re-watching The Last Wish, I think about having to sit through all the other scenes that center around him and it kills all desire I have to see the movie again.

I think it's pretty common for things to get both a Latin American and a mainland Spanish dub, though I don't know about Road to El Dorado specifically.

Pacific

Marona is next.

Suprak_the_Stud posted...

I have my 1 and my 17 left. But I actually enjoyed the 17. Like, it wasn't my favorite but it was a decently made movie that I didn't really have problems with.

So I'm hoping my 1 pulls it out but honestly I'd be fine with 17 too.

Don't worry, we all already have enough information to be certain Puss in Boots won.

I used to struggle with this but have been trying to quit.

I have 2, 9, 10 left.

Out of all the movies on this list that I consider good, Pinocchio is the one I feel most indifferent toward. Thinking back on that whole intro sequence kinda makes me cringe. Maybe I should've dropped it a few spots, to 15th or something.

I will be optimistic and predict Encanto next.

Yeah The Bad Guys didn't get tanked by one vote any worse than most other films in the top 10 so far. It does have a funny spread. It's basically a polarizing film where the positive votes outnumber the negative ones in this group. I'm impressed it managed to land this high with 3 art snobs voting, once you remove those votes it's probably like second place or something.

I wasn't sure where it would land but I'm kind of surprised, I genuinely really wanted to like the movie, went into it expecting to like it, and came out thinking it was awful. 29th seems harsh on a list with DC Super Pets and Sing 2, but I really feel it's a much more deserved placement than 1st or 3rd for a film that felt like Dreamworks falling back on all its worst tendencies, that I would compare to Sharktale or Shrek 3 before How to Train Your Dragon or Shrek 2. I wish I could see the version of this movie with clever plot developments, funny jokes, or good character development. The character designs deserve that, but the movie I watched was riddled with cringe, clichs, and stock personalities.

Zigzagoon posted...

Some people hate fart scenes (I agree they suck but not enough to drop a movie like 20 spots lol)

And some people hate breast squeezing scenes + killing baby animals for literally no reason!

Guess you gotta take your pick sometimes, y'know?

I don't think they're really comparable! I brought up the breast milk scenes in Girl Without Hands because they're both scenes that involve bodily functions that someone could feel sensitive about, and that's perfectly valid, but The Girl Without Hands doesn't dwell on breast milk to nearly the same extent that The Bad Guys does on farts. The GWH scenes don't warrant criticism imo outside of just "I don't like seeing breast milk", but to me, the problem with the farting scenes in The Bad Guys isn't that they involve farting (anything can be a vehicle for good comedy or storytelling with the right execution), it's that they are witless and way, way too long. A good joke requires timing and structure, but these scenes barely get any further than "a fart happens" in their joke-telling, or better yet "a really big fart happens", which is just using exaggeration in place of cleverness. It's the kind of thing Family Guy or a bad Youtube animator would do in place of telling a real joke. And I don't buy for a second that the movie being for kids justifies this. Kids deserve good movies too! There's no excuse for this shit in a world where Gravity Falls, Avatar, The Lion King, and even all the infinitely better kids movies on this list like Puss in Boots or Big Bad Fox that don't have to rely on lazy comedy like this exist.

Pinocchio is next.

yes

all of me

Rid of

2
9
10
11
21

I think I'd like this top ten better if we turned it upside-down! I was worried for The House from pretty early, but I guess that turned out to be trauma from the Great Art Movie Massacre of 2022. I think the point of the animal characters was to drive home just how much time had passed between each short, as in the dominant species on Earth had died off and a new one replaced it, but the harmful temptations of The House still remained the same. I think you can criticize it for a lack of animal related gags or character actions similar to Sing 2 if you want though, the only thing that comes to mind is the Developer Rat reverting to feral rat-hood at the end of part 2.

Damn, if I had swapped The House with Birdboy, which I would genuinely do if I remade my list today, both Birdboy and Big Bad Fox would've gone up a spot as a result. Guess I should actually watch the movies before the last two weeks next time I participate in one of these show I have time to reflect on the movies and rank them more accurately.

If The Bad Guys really is Johnbobb's 29 that will be a funny looking spread, I dub this an Inverted Hertzfeldt. I was wondering which of you fuckers let that shit into the top 5 but I guess it was everyone? I honestly really tried to get behind that movie but like... it's the kind of film where the opening scene has a piranha blasting out a gigantic green fart to escape the police by choking them with the stank and then like 15 minutes later you watch the piranha's fart gas fill up an entire room for like 5 whole minutes while the spider tries to type and hold her breath. Not sure how I feel about Girl Without Hands getting raked over the coals for showing milk squirting from a breast for about three seconds twice in its runtime or Waltz With Bashir getting blasted for showing normally-proportioned penises while The Bad Guys gets away with this shit. I mean go ahead and use fart jokes, that's all well and fine, but these scenes just show a lack of proper comedic restraint.

Guessing The Bad Guys again.

Guessing The Bad Guys again.

Suprak_the_Stud posted...

BURN THE HERATIC

Although I'm not one to talk. I have my top 3 then my 17, 20, and 25. So unless everyone else gave those films 1s and 2s, I know three movies that didn't win. I might be the lowest on all three, actually.

Yeah this is the point of the list we've come to. The lowest films were the ones everyone hated except one or two people who put them in the mid to top range, now we have some that everyone liked except one or two. This will presumably continue until we get to Puss in Boots in the #1 spot. The Johnbob 29 is still in play and I have my 21st left - I was really hoping The Big Bad Fox would at least beat that one :(

This probably ended up being the film I loved most out of the whole project, even if I thought two others were even more impressive as works of animation. It's the one I've gone back and rewatched parts of the most often (I have still yet to watch any of the movies on this list a second time in their entirety though), if I want to cheer myself up or something. Like Ermine I did some fox-related shopping from this project and bought the comic, which tells the same story but is graphic-novel length and includes a few gags that never made it to the film:

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/7/9/1/AAVkPqAAEwZH.jpg

Since it was pretty popular it's also available in English and via Amazon Prime delivery. The other two stories have comic versions too but you'd have to ship them from France so I haven't got my hands on either of those yet. This also inspired me to watch Ernest & Celestine which had a lot of the same creative staff, and that was really good too though I ended up preferring Fox.

Also yeah that British dub is a little sus, since the greatness of the movie is almost entirely in the perfect execution and comic timing some scenes suffer a little, the Stork's VA for example hams it up a lot better in French which goes really well with how they animated him. The weirdest thing about the dub is that they added a soliloquy from the Pig about how pigs are misunderstood and he loves to garden at the start of the first story. In the original he just silently gardens.

Darling

Definitely felt bad to put The Little Prince below some of the shit on this list but I had to stick with my art snob principles that it is not exactly like the book and therefore bad.

I'll take The Bad Guys next too.

Forget about me