Lurker > BritKnee

EPR-radar posted...

To be fair, this class warfare stuff is completely orthodox Marxist-Leninist ideology. It goes along with the whole "violent revolution is necessary" thing.

It really is intensely problematic. Not quite problematic enough to justify past and present US Red Scares, but it's a surprisingly close call.

I mean... it's also consistent with orthodox Marxism itself. My country actually had a peaceful socialist revolution, luckily

ssjevot posted...

Stalin wanted to target Jews. Luckily he died before it could go into full effect and they dropped it because everyone else thought it was dumb.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctors%27_plot

Stalin didn't believe the doctor's plot, it was anti-semites around him that did

Jagus posted...

OP I hope one day you realize how much youre dehumanizing people just to prop up leaders who never cared about their people

I disagree that Stalin never cared, evidenced by the major quality of life improvements in his tenure.

EPR-radar posted...

How then to account for the fact that in a police state, everyone is oppressed except for the masters of the secret police?

This is a fact that contradicts your theories.

You could deny the USSR was a police state.

Or you could assert that somehow the proletariat were the masters of the secret police (a remarkable feat, since I'm sure some members of the proletariat were tortured to death in Beria's dungeons).

Or perhaps there is a more imaginative story to tell here.

I would argue that the police targeted those they had valid reasons to believe were counter-revolutionaries: be they Trotskyists, Nazis (especially in the mid 30s), other fascists, Christian radicals, or anarchists

ssb_yunglink2 posted...

Why the fuck would oppressing the peasantry ever be acceptable

You are genuinely advocating for oppression

The peasantry largely became the proletariat, those that didn't were usually Kulaks. Yeah... the suppression of non-proletarian classes as to eliminate the class structure overall

ssb_yunglink2 posted...

You believe that people not in these specific classes faced no oppression and were not at risk of being disappeared?

Further, you think the oppression of these groups was acceptable?

The oppression of the aforementioned classes was acceptable, and so was the punishment of counter-revolutionaries and reactionaries. I say that last part as an Orthodox Christian too. Edit: I'm not a liberal, I know class warfare to be necessary

ssjevot posted...

Yeah but that guy is a nationalist, forced to defend everything bad thing their country of choice did because it's important to their identity. Tankies are sort of like that but for a communist aesthetic (because its the appearance that matters to them, the actual policy is not remotely related to what they claim to want). They feel compelled to defend the regimes that had the appearance of the ideology they support because it's important to their identity. They both suffer from not realizing you could just not support or defend bad things.

You're talking absolute shit. My support of communism comes from reading theory, not from waving red flags with hammers and sickles. As I said, I was a convinced anarchist before educating myself on socialism...

ssb_yunglink2 posted...

The dictator of a country oppressing the proletariat was the proletariat. Okay

It was the peasantry, bourgeoisie, and petite bourgeoisie that were oppressed

EPR-radar posted...

In this era of filthy degenerate Republicans fucking up everything about the US, I suppose it can't hurt to have a reminder that repeating the mistakes of the botched revolutions of the past is not an option.

Despite how enormously entertaining it would be to see rabid communists set loose on the Republican party.

The best, and I say this with hatred, communist party in America is probably PSL... but they're pro China dipshits

Jagus posted...

Why not just forget all those old guys of the past and support current politicians who are humanitarian? Youre tying yourself to a sunk ship for no reason

The politician I support most is the leader of the Greek Communist Party

ssb_yunglink2 posted...

Stalin was not the proletariat. The people around him in positions of power were not the proletariat.

The dude was just a dictator.

He objectively was a part of the proletariat, specifically the Lumpenproletariat

ssjevot posted...

My wife's grandmother literally ate dirt as a child to stop the hunger pangs during the worst mass famine in history. Which was caused by Mao.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Leap_Forward

Yeah, the Great Leap Forward was a failure because China was stupidly decentralised

ssb_yunglink2 posted...

You will hopefully grow out of this bizarre love of Stalin and his oppressive regime

As soon as a more peaceful road to socialism is found... but fundamentally, the dictatorship of the proletariat is the most important tool in the liberation of the proletariat-

Jagus posted...

Mao Zedong, the guy who bragged about killing intellectuals and says he wouldve done more if he felt like it?

he may have been the best option for China at the time, but we have to leave these flawed people in the past. They arent our heroes

Yeah, counter-revolutionaries were killed...

EPR-radar posted...

LOL, why am I reminded of this?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Praxeology

Praxeology is the founding fallacy of Austrian economics. E.g., "Austrians argue that empirical data itself is insufficient to describe economics; that consequently empirical data cannot falsify economic theory"

Stripping it down to the tldr, Austrian economics holds that no matter how many times trickle-down economics is disproven by facts, it doesn't matter, because they say facts can never disprove their theory.

The Austrian school is a fucking joke haha, fair enough for the critique. That being said, I still disagree based on the fact I have read, from Stalin, his view on women

ssb_yunglink2 posted...

Knowing that tc is literally a child makes all this make way more sense

Well I prefer being condescended towards than being accused of trolling, genuinely

Jagus posted...

I mean her opinions are fully consistent in my view with a young teenager defending her favorite guy. When I was her age I didnt accept Muhammads flaws myself (if I even knew them)

Stalin wouldn't be my favourite guy, that would go to Mao or Rosa Luxemburg or someone. Karl Liebknecht...

Jagus posted...

Ok but would you have killed Stalin for letting it all happen? We can pretend he already defeated the Nazis first if youd like

He wasn't a rapist, and his government passed many laws which protected women demonstrably. Now, one criticism I do have is the banning of abortion... but again, it was 1933

El_Dustino posted...

I hope this is a bit or this child is unhinged.

Then again a lot of young people go through this edgelord wanna rebel against their liberal parents phase, many move past it, hopefully it's just a phase too if not trolling.

My family are communist, most at least

ssjevot posted...

If this isn't trolling it is absolutely sociopathy. You don't tolerate rape if it's useful. This is completely outside normal morality.

I don't tolerate rape, I would have had the guy killed. But then again, I'm not the leader of the biggest country on earth, I can think idealistically about the death of sex pests

Jagus posted...

Buddy you can use Wikipedia. We dont need to speak Russian

I prefer to stick to transcripts, academic sources, and political theory.

ssjevot posted...

By your own admission he knowingly tolerated a chronic rapist as the head of his secret police. He didn't address jack shit.

Yeah, because Beria was "useful". This is purity testing though, the man died in 1953

Jagus posted...

Addressed it how? Did he jail, execute, or speak out against the rapes? No, right?

I know rapists in my country were executed for such crimes, but I don't know about in the USSR because I don't speak Russian well. Neither do you, I suspect.

Jagus posted...

im surprised people were making new gfaqs accounts in 2022 and they got ce access.

I like "retro" things, ahaha. My windows 10 install is themed to look like XP, and my linux to look like Red hat from 2002

Jagus posted...

Yeah Im hyper focusing on it cuz it was one of the worst mass raping sprees of all time.

it doesnt have to do with being liberal, I criticize Muhammad (my own prophet) for having sex slaves, even though it was normal at his time .

i feel like facilitating rape is one of those dealbreaker things

He also addressed it as a systemic issue, which you would know if you read his works :p

El_Dustino posted...

If TC signed up at 13 they are roughly 16 now, they are a literal child, which makes this topic kinda funny lol

I believe I was 15

Sundercles posted...

Thank you for admitting you broke TOS. It doesnt matter how old you are NOW, your account will likely be banned for this.

Reported.

"If you are over the age of 13 but under 18 years of age or the legal age of majority in your jurisdiction, you must have your parent or legal guardian read these terms and accept them on your behalf. "
I'm fine

Jagus posted...

I mean you dont have to support my politics on other things but please dont stan a mass rape ignorer like Stalin. Who was either so evil he starved his people, or was so incompetent it was an accident.

You're hyperfocusing on one thing, I see it as a liberal predisposition. It wasn't incompetence that led to the famine, it was a multitude of factors.

ssjevot posted...

Yet again, I remind you Stalin actively ignored rapes by his most trusted secret police chief.

Beria should've been fucking killed, I'm beyond disappointed that Stalin kept him around despite knowing he was a degenerate. His daughter Svetlana is the reason we know his view on Beria

Sundercles posted...

Thank you for admitting you broke TOS. It doesnt matter how old you are NOW, your account will likely be banned for this.

Reported.

Okie <3
I thought 13 was the minimum age for signing up

Jagus posted...

tc if youre young I just want you to know you can hate capitalism and oligarchs without propping up a monster like Stalin

From my point of view Jagus, you've got your heart in the right place, but growing up in a liberal environment in tandem with lacking a political theoretical basis in Marxism makes your perspective, to me, moot (is this how the phrase is used?). I, when I first joined this board, considered myself an anarchist; those posts could probably be found by people with access to the old politics board. It was reading political theory that made me realise the necessity for Leninism, not to mention the incredible effect it had on my country.

Evening_Dragon posted...

Eh. I'd bet tc is a tankie, but that's not a fair detail to go off of. It's the kind of thing you would eventually learn about by maintaining interest in a subject.

Again, it's also cultural context, we have to learn about this stuff over here

Humble_Novice posted...

Tankies and conservatives are not wanted here, so I don't understand why TC is even here other than to troll and waste time.

So it needs to be nice and centrist? Nice and America friendly

EPR-radar posted...

It's the little details, like casually referring to Kulaks as if there's more than 1 person in 100,000 these days who doesn't have to look that term up before using it. I sure as hell had to look it up.

I am a communist, the critique of Kulaks (we had our own where I live, but fewer due to... well... various reasons) is well known as they were the wealthy of the peasantry. It's like how middle-management is the wealthy side of the proletariat

Sundercles posted...

Yes, at least mentally.

Read Capital

Humble_Novice posted...

Is TC underaged? If so, they have no right to be here.

I was underaged when I joined, but no one actually believed my age... they again thought I was trolling. The cynicism is genuinely absurd around here.

Jagus posted...

Yeah, theyre just evil empire hipsters. They like the exotic obscure empires you know little about.

im having a hard time believing op is a tankie but didnt even know about the mass rapes. She is either trolling or super young or something, how do you not know that but you know about the holodomor ?

1. I am young, especially for this board's standards
2. I know about the holodomor, I just don't consider it a genocide for multiple reasons, one of them being the fact I think Kulaks did need to face punishment due to their oppressive class status.

Edit: Thank you for not calling me a dude

Humble_Novice posted...

Tankies LOVE glazing countries like Russia and China. They are just as bad as MAGA.

I hate both modern Russia and modern China

Jagus posted...

leadership like Stalin? Ruler of the country? Who did nothing to punish the rapists? He apparently called the rapes byproducts of war

the soviets were some of the worst serial rapists of all time. Look at Poland

Yeah, rapes are a byproduct of war, women and children always experience the worst brunt of it... He isn't defending shit, but calling to attention systemic issues

Humble_Novice posted...

Wow, TC is just asking to get suspended here.

Wtf? I literally just repeated what you said, switching the roles

Humble_Novice posted...

Tankies should NOT be tolerated at all.

Neither should liberals, but we live in their regimes

ssjevot posted...

If this isn't trolling it is sociopathy. Absolutely unhinged. We have had defenses of mass rape and starvation.

I have no defense for rape, it's the most awful of crime which most of the world is unfortunately complicit in to some degree.

Jagus posted...

haha sure is. Havent met a tankie in a loooong Time, like 7 years or something.

Crazy she cant even admit Stalin is bad for facilitating mass rapes

If he did, then it is very much disgusting... but honestly I'd assume that'd be the responsibility of leadership on the front lines to quell.

ssb_yunglink2 posted...

This is not even genocide denial, this is genocide support

It's class warfare, the Kulaks could collaborate, but many didn't. So, as a result, they had their excess crops taken whilst simultaneously dealing with a blight which spread across Europe (including, as I said, my own country which was capitalist and totally unrelated to the USSR).

EPR-radar posted...

Having a Stalin worshipper is a change of pace from the run of the mill Trump slurpers.

I don't worship him, he was a good leader and political theorist. I also hold some criticisms of him with LeftCommunist inspiration...

EPR-radar posted...

LOL. You literally answered your own question. Liquidation of Kulaks as a class was a stated goal of Stalin, and that becoming extermination of Kulaks themselves was inevitable.

A good goal, one of the goals of the Dictatorship of the Proletariat... just because they happened to be Ukrainian (the breadbasket of Europe) doesn't mean they died for being Ukrainian.

ssjevot posted...

Trump supporters pop out to troll every once in a while. They absolutely lurk here.

Absolute degenerates, they spend their time bitching on other websites.

McMarbles posted...

You know what, just report his fucking ass.

I'm not a "he", why do gamers do this? It's a part of why I don't use this fucking site

Anyway, I'm off to bed, it's 2:02 in the morning

Jagus posted...

because Ukrainians wanted independence apparently.

it seems the best case scenario for the holodomor was that it was caused by accident. But even if true thats a massive leadership failure.

Then why did the Ukrainian SSR join?