Lurker > masterplum

Crescent-Moon posted...

Plum has seen me post walls of text at the start of a day several times before so...

You act like I remember this at all

DoomTheGyarados posted...

Plum has seen town chris post wall of texts in dead chats enough

Geesh why cant I be day vig

Well yeah you are Chris

Crescent having a wall of text prepared makes me think she knew she wasn't dying

Well.

I dont even with this game. Mike either pulled one of the most insane gambits of all time or this is a joke game. Meh

I don't know what the hell moved scare to hammer, but I question if scum paints a target on their back like that

Ulti could honestly be a WIFOM vending machine

banananor posted...

this really would be the most obnoxious godfather setup of all time

I don't think it would be obnoxious at all. It would make things make sense.

Third party that either dies and wins with scum or kills scum and wins with town sounds kind of cool

Ulti straight up claimed warrior of light right?

Him not being warrior of light is just not a plausible outcome

Just popping in to say my opinion hasnt changed.

im going to look over Mikes posts one more time before end of day to really make sure he was suicidal and not trying to pull a fast one, but assuming I dont see anything that jumps out at me I think Ulti scum makes the game make much more sense.

Crescent-Moon posted...

This is Corrik-level manipulation if he's pulled a fast one on wanting to be lynched.

And it would be such a dumb move.

Crescent-Moon posted...

I inherently distrust Mike's claim.

I distrust Ulti's play.

I can't do anything to press on Mike's claim, so I've been pressing Ulti.

Do we believe Mike is good enough to sell trying to get lynched to prove we shouldn't lynch him? There is no way right?

##Vote:Ulti

The only way this role remotely makes sense is if Ulti is scum claiming their real role (Which is plausible)

In that scenario this third party role has at least a little bit of intrigue.

As is this role is completely nonsensical and anyone that reviewed the game would have thrown it out.

The other alternative is that the third party doesn't want to get lynched, but I kind of believe Mike when he said he was ok getting lynched. It wouldn't surprise me if he was lynched he because scum aligned and won with scum

UltimaterializerX posted...

To confirm me town. He literally said this already.

so let me get this straight

1. Certain Town member claims real role at some point
2. Third party immediately knows that role is what they are looking for
3. Third party immediately wins regardless of how that lynch goes, but we still either kill them or not and it doesn't matter for the third party

Does nobody else find this role completely impossible?

I am confused why a third party is trying to kill themselves

UltimaterializerX posted...

All I was given was a mention of Zenos. Nothing nefarious beyond that.

This is such useless argument, because if there was something nefarious you would tell us >_>

So warrior of light is bad

and Ulti is warrior of light

so.

This is weird

MikeTavish posted...

I still agree me dying today is the play. If Ulti IS Elidibus as scum then I guess scum wins and gg to them.

Since no one explained that to Ulti when he asked, Elidibus is a big bad you fight who has the title of "Warrior of Light" during the fight. It's a fun idea but I'm not giving it much credence.

Hmm

I'm pretty sure Ben has hosted before and had ludicrous setups

I think what it comes down to is Can you ever trust a third party? And I think the answer to that is no. Its possible that Ulti is scum, but not lynching the third party could lead to all sorts of bad outcomes up to and including the game just ending on the spot with third party winning.

You just cant risk that.

##Vote:Mike

Though I do want to emphasize this doesnt mean Ulti is confirmed town by any means

Though I should clarify, Im not leaning towards voting Ulti because of that, rather its why Im completely ignoring flavor meta such as warrior of light must exist or warrior of light must be town

If we think Ulti is town we shouldnt vote for him, but Im going to be mega annoyed if people just assume hes town because flavor

I also know nothing about flavor, so this is just speculation by inference

But a game where there is a warrior of dark on the scum team with warrior of light on the safe list and a third party looking for the warrior of light sounds 100% like something I would do. That sounds hilarious

UltimaterializerX posted...

Hey Plum, why do you think the host safe listed a main character and why not ask any questions about this at all?

Because I have literally done this before as host to prevent meta?

Or the main character could simply be on the scum team. I have also done that.

UltimaterializerX posted...

Killing town BP that gets a potential upgrade over a claimed third party is objectively terrible mafia play.

Good thing I am pondering that you maybe aren't town!

My concern is a third party that tries to kill town is wildly unbalanced. Like chris says the third party basically forces a mislynch if it is aiming for town.

So what if the warrior of light is a scum role? That makes the role much more interesting. The gladiator aspect makes more sense.

Just thinking out loud. Maybe it is just a really dumb role

I actually am leaning scum on Ulti which is making my mantra of never trust a third party a little wishy washy

DoomTheGyarados posted...

Sure, maybe you have lost your zeal and you are just bad town now. I am open to that.

Claim?

I am debating that

Because Im not!

Amusingly, I think I would enjoy being scum more! I used to much prefer town but now that I play town 40 hours a week trying to deceive people sounds like a fun change of pace

Sigh, this isnt as fun as it used to be.

I realize now that the fact I spend 40 hours a week engaging in tactical rhetoric for my job kind of takes away a lot of the excitement of playing mafia.

it feels too much like work

DoomTheGyarados posted...

Yes, a town bat dying at night is the same as a town chris or town death dying at night. Totally the same.

Considering you are lunging after town right now, I would say bat being alive might be better

DoomTheGyarados posted...

Basically I have a lot of problems with this stance.

Like for one I saw in real time yesterday that you were not behaving in a pro town way. I identified town on bat (death for starters) due to how they were interacting and being able to see their thread of logic but you were acting contrary to how I expect you to act Usually as town you are all too eager to 'go with chris see where it leads' or somesuch but you were mega passive and then hopped onto the poor town bat train.

My first thought is you are probably the only scum on it just based on how others reacted to the "slip." You should know just the same as I that such things are rarely assured, but you went all coin tosser on me. Not cool imo

Bat said something that clearly could come from noob scum. It was a better lead than any other shenanigans, and I still disagree with you about the importance of lynching a bodyguard. Bodyguards still one for one scum. It doesn't get you ahead.

No, I still think Chris is scum. There is someone else I think also might be scum, but we can stay there

##Vote:Chris

I gave my 60% number. Sometimes you flip tails

DoomTheGyarados posted...

"apathetic" I came in, said the lynch was bad, and then came in later and said the lynch was bad.

I was like the only person who had multiple posts about it. Even death was like 'oh oops yeah I guess you did'

You have commanded people to get off trains before. This lynch you were like.... meh

Actually....

Hmm

##Unvote

Thinking

##Vote:Chris

I don't recall a town chris ever being that apathetic when a lynch wasn't going his way, and then with the bodyguard dead I am highly suspect a mafia wouldn't aim for him

DoomTheGyarados posted...

That all being said I don't have a terrible amount of investment in this game thankfully so maybe bat is indeed just newbie scum who slipped. But most slips turn out not to be such and I don't even view it as a slip. I like to lynch scum day one personally and when I can understand where someone is coming from it is usually town.

Idk just feels like a really shitty lynch but sometimes shitty lunches get scum so? Whoo let's roll the dice and hope disastrous play and logic work out.

You are arguing my entire argument when I say No Lynch day 1 is probably the strategically correct choice. I would be shocked if random die rolls were worse than B8 towns on day 1 lynches.

I think Bat has like, a 60% chance of being scum, which is good enough

DoomTheGyarados posted...

Killing a protection claim on the basis of a "slip" that isn't a slip is horrible and if icdie night one I demand you all murder plum for me even if it is just so I can explain mafia theory to him in dead chat

We are killing a weak player with a weak power claim that has been soft countered.

I mean even if he does flip town there have been way more disastrous day 1's. Don't get all hyperbolic on me

Also, I would love to see the stats on hectic end of days vs quiet end of days. The last time I remember someone making the quiet end of day argument, the last second lynch was town power and the escaped quiet lynch was scum

Killing a BG isn't bad mafia practice, especially in a game this small.

But is he hot?

Crescent-Moon posted...

You have ignored the Bat lynch entirely

Good reason to vote someone tbh

I was looking back to see if I saw any scum slips after the shonen slip of scum knowing he was town. I didn't really see anything, which makes me think shonen is still scum. Nobody immediately came to his aid sure he was town or anything like that.

UltimaterializerX posted...

I have information others dont have. This is what, the third time Ive mentioned this?

And the role will resolve itself even if I didnt. Off.

You realize this is the downside of spewing lies as either alignment right? I dont believe you. Even if you were host confirmed town I wouldnt believe you

DoomTheGyarados posted...

Plum voting the protection claim day one sure does remind me of scum plum of yesteryear

##vote: plum

DoomTheGyarados posted...

So my day one 'let's hope I don't suck' list is I am fine with bananaan's vote on bat, seemed genuine. Scare as town also tends to enjoy jumping on people so that's fine. Votes I don't like are death and plum but also I think death has asked me before to stop thinking so highly of his town game but that may have been scum death saying that.

So if bat is town I am fine with quite a few people based on how they are interacting with the wagon and general early vibes.

Plum why are you trying to kill my bodyguard?

Because bodyguard in 1(4?)3 isnt so powerful as to be worth respecting, and a great fake claim for someone in this position. It isnt strong enough to ignore a clear slip.

The slip is exactly the perspective slip scum who hasnt played in a long time would make because they are rusty.

You seem to be unusually receptive to my response given that you were just confused about it. My answer was enough to move you from confused to well yeah?

htaeD posted...

Okay I am confused as to why do you despise Reds post?

And yes I agree that getting scum too do something else besides roll over would be better, but you expect townbat to to panic or scumbat to panic? The sentence structure throws me for a loop.

So suppose bat is scum here, and was caught in a huge slip. How is he going to feel? How is he going to react?

Well I would expect a scum bat to be deeply embarrassed and stop playing the game. I would expect a town bat to get defensive, or angry, or shrug it off.

So the longer that goes the more easily it is to definitively say, Bat is acting like I would expect scum to act

The problem is if someone feeds bat a line about this, he is going to change his behavior. Thats why summons could sometimes be a scum tell. Scum is doing their thing then they are alerted that is what scum would do so they immediately course correct into doing what town would do.

I find players in general really struggle to move their game from actions into intentions but you are never going to be successful without doing that.

Crescent-Moon posted...

The moment he dropped that INT, I thought the Rams were going to win.

When a play is botched that badly in a game that right, it's usually game-losing.

Like, the ultimate example was in 2007. Patriots were 18-0 and had quite a fewwins in games with plays like that, where the opponent simply botched one play horribly in the 4th and it cost them the game.

Then Asaunte Samuel drops the game winning INT in the Super Bowl and the very next play is the helmet catch, and they found themselves on the end of "one botched play in the 4th quarter" instead.

NFL teams just have a way of punishing other teams for such mistakes.

The bengals dropped a gimme int in regulation up 3 with a minute left. I think you just remember the misteps.

anyways, Stafford going to to the Super Bowl reminds me what a terribly run franchise the lions are

Leafeon13N posted...

My biggest issue with it so far is he hasn't even attempted to say it wasn't a slip.

I despise this post. This is what we were all thinking but specifically calling him out led to him coming back. The longer time went by the more likely he was scum just giving up and dying.

##Vote:Bat

This also was exactly why I wasnt voting for bat yet you smooth brains. Get him too close to lynch and it would make scum bat panic (which is what I would expect a town bat to do) instead of apathetically rolling over,