Lurker > StifledSilence

OUTLIER

Poke 77
CoolCly 52
Inviso 48
KBM 44
Johnbobb 32
Karo 24
Stifled 16

Inviso and KBM roll into town to get revenge on Poke. The townspeople Johnbobb, Karo, and Stifled all abandon Poke in his time of need, but Pokes new bride CoolCly manages to save him at the end. They ride off into the outlier sunset together.
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Bear Bro
The Empire of Silence

Inviso: This was a fascinating character story, using time as a means of amping up the tension as the movie goes on. A small-town marshal is literally getting ready to leave with his new bride, when word comes down that a criminal, who he put away is out on a pardon, and is likely looking to get revenge. The marshal only has until noon to get ready to take on a whole gang, and you just know youre in for an explosive final showdown. Throughout the film, the marshal (who is beloved and respected, mind you), is trying to gather a posse to help even the odds against the gang, but hes shut down at every turn. Its a portrait of bravery that the marshal is the only man (aside from a 14-year-old boy) willing to stand against the gang, as all others find reasons to hide, or avoid responsibility. Meanwhile, youve got minor character stories like that of the arrogant deputy, the marshals new bride and his old flame. It all ends well for the marshal, as he takes out the gang with help from only his pacifist wife, and that final shot of him abandoning his badge with disdain for the towns cowardice is just powerful. Its a great ending, knowing that town is going to have to deal with the fallout of their fear.

KBM: Gary Cooper goes around trying to assemble a team... and fails. Then he has to do everything himself. The result is one of the most gripping, tense climaxes on a list full of solid climaxes, as the clock slowly ticks to noon. The editing in that sequence alone is just stunning as it is in the whole film, but particularly in that third act. It's not easy to pull off the story in real time thing (see: the bad seasons of 24 for further details), but when you DO pull it off, it's a thing of beauty (see: the good seasons of 24). This pulls it off, and THEN some.

Johnbobb: "*copied from a paper I did for ""Film and American Society"" in college*

Ill be the first to admit that Ive never been a big fan of westerns. I can appreciate the exploration of racism in The Searchers or the thematic backdrop of No Country for Old Men, but they typically dont tend to be the types of films I flock to, and I cant say that High Noon is really the exception. The film has some deeper themes that can be interesting to examine, even if the film itself isnt thrilling.

The film released around the time of the Red Scare, when screenwriter Carl Foreman was accused of being a Communist. High Noon was meant to be the response of Foreman and director Fred Zinneman to McCarthyism. The film revolves around ex-marshal Will Kane as he tries to gather together a group to take down Frank Miller, a notable outlaw that Will Kane put away, and his gang as they ride to town. However, nobody in the town is willing to help them (despite the fact that all the men in the town could easily take down Franks four men) because theyre all afraid to take a chance getting themselves hurt or in danger. This is largely similar to the state of Hollywood during McCarthyism, with few being willing to step up against Communist accusers out of fear of being accused themselves. Foreman explained, I used a western background to tell the story of a community corrupted by fear, with the implications I hoped would be obvious to almost everyone who saw the film, at least in America.

A few things held High Noon back. There are only two female characters in the film: the pure, white Quaker woman and the more fiery, exotic Hispanic woman. Grace Kellys character especially didnt really set any new standards. However, at the time, viewers were more concerned with the films surprising lack of other western tropes, such as horse chases, wide, open scenery and more aggressive gunfights. "

CoolCly: I respect premise of this movie. A man who has everything to live for by walking away feels he has to come back for one last showdown or else hell feel like he walked away from everything he stands for. But he comes to find that in the town hes doing this for, nobody else is willing to stand with him. He has to stand alone.
One of my favourite parts is the guy whos totally willing and able and signs up at the start, but at the end when he finds out theres nobody else, he plays the whoa whoa this isnt what I signed up for card. A fair weather ally, to be sure, but his position is pretty understandable.

I didnt enjoy watching this movie much though. I didnt think the lead actor was that engaging, and since we are watching him run down the real time clock to noon, that hurts things a lot. Ryan Gosling as the deputy was a bit of a miss. I like the idea that he doesnt have the selflessness and courage to be the marshall, which is why Will wont recommend him for the position. If you dont know why, then I cant explain it to you. This is echoed by his girlfriend (who I liked a lot), who thinks hes pathetic for not standing by Will in this hour of need. She also thinks that if he doesnt understand why she thinks less of him for this, then she cant explain it to him. Theres something here that I like, but the fact that nobody actually even *tries* to explain this to Ryan Gosling feels a bit empty, and his fist fight in the stables with Will didnt feel like it resolved anything for me.

The showdown at the end was pretty lackluster. Every single time McCree has ever uttered the words High Noon resulted in a cooler action sequence than this did. Big miss here, when the entire movie is building up to this show downI have heard that the film received a lot of criticism for the wife saving Will from one of the gunmen by shooting him herself, as if that makes him less of a man. That makes me respect this film more those critics were dumb as hell.

Overall, this is a good premise, and I respect it for some things, but I wouldnt recommend this movie to anybody except for if they are doing a deep dive into old movies / westerns.

3.5/10

Poke: A very slow film, building up to the showdown at the allotted time, but then the climax fizzled out on us. And a lot of it didnt even make sense. All he has to do is leave the town and avoid others getting involved in what is solely about him. But sure, endanger the rest of the town.

Karo: So theres this marshal who is retiring due to getting married, except that an outlaw who he put behind bars just got out of prison, so this pretentious asshole runs off and leaves his new wife in order to go kick some ass because his masculinity felt threatened.
Let me get this straight, no matter how the story tries to portray it a such this has nothing to do with 'doing the right thing', the town doesnt even WANT the marshal back. The outlaw is only going to cause a scene in the town BECAUSE of the marshal. All he had to do was go away for the town to live happily ever after.
As for the marshal's new wife, she just is pretty much subhuman in the eyes of both her husband and the writers. Her feelings do not matter, her religious beliefs do not matter, cause oh no she's a bad wife because she doesnt do everything Marshal McDouchenozzle asks without question. So this all leads to her having to murder someone thereby violating the most sacred tenets of her Quakerism, and all is now right with the world because her husband got to have his little testosterone-infused gunfight and they ride off into the sunset apparently still in love for some reason. Jesus fucking christ.
I know that there will always be some sexism in the portrayal of the dated gender roles of the era, but this is like a movie adaptation of the Proud Boys creed.
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Bear Bro
The Empire of Silence

Thank you, everyone. Yesterday was pretty rough. But today I have returned feeling much better as we say goodbye to my #30.

#24. High Noon 143 points

Inviso 6
KBM 7
Johnbobb 18
CoolCly 26
Pokewars 26
Karo - 30
Stifled 30

Very poor plot synopsis:
Dude ruins his wedding day by killing a bunch of outlaws in order to protect a town full of ungrateful turds.

Why it was included:
Similar to The Searchers earlier in the list, High Noon is a highly regarded western. It will make many, if not all critic lists for best western films. Even the title itself is often used to describe duels and showdowns in regard to the wild west or media about it. Its a well known example of the classic veteran cop/sheriff/federal agent/etc is about to retire, but is dragged back into the fold for one more mission tale. Think about how many of your favorite action heroes have used this trope over the years. High Noon was a big inspiration to all of those and deserves a spot on this list. Additionally, if you like Die Hard, this was the movie John and Hans were having a chat about in regards to who Grace Kelly rides off into the sunset with. That was Gary Cooper, asshole.

What Stifled thinks:
As iconic as this film is, however, High Noon was an easy last place for me. Wild Wild West is a fucking train wreck (literally, in fact!) and Shane has one of the most annoying characters in any movie Ive ever seen, but both of those movies were interesting and even enjoyable in a lot of ways. In fact, I would gladly watch the other 29 movies on this list again at some point, but I would only rewatch High Noon begrudgingly. It does the one thing I find to be absolutely criminal in a movie: it was relentlessly boring. Its a double shame because I actually really liked the setup at the beginning. The villains are presented as the baddest motherfuckers around and this poor shmuck that just got married comes out of retirement because he feels he is the only one that can defeat them. Thats really cool! And with the short runtime I thought for sure this would be a fucking barn burner (literally, in fact!).

But my goshmost of this flick is filled with extremely slow-paced downtime and unlikeable characters. The entire town is selfish, cowardly scum. This isnt a new thing either, most western film townspeople are like that. But this group isnt even interesting. Im struggling to remember ANYONE outside of the annoying deputy and Kanes ex-girlfriend. The snails pace at which Kane tries to assemble a posse takes any urgency out of the villains eventual arrival. It plays out like he has an eternity to waste even though he doesnt. This is unfortunate because it erases all of the anticipation the beginning of the film built up. The eventual end battle actually is pretty great, but even that doesnt elevate High Noon over the other films on this list because they too have great action sequences. High Noon ended up being a huge disappointment for me, which is a damn shame. If it had a middle to match the beginning and the end, it would have easily lived up to its reputation in my eyes.
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Bear Bro
The Empire of Silence

Went to my aunts funeral today. Dunno if Im feeling up to doing one today. Definitely will be back tomorrow.
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Bear Bro
The Empire of Silence

Persona 4. Around 10 years ago I decided to try it since B8 recommended the series so often. I was expecting it to be ok, not become a top 10 game.
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Bear Bro
The Empire of Silence

Zithers posted...

tbh from that "review" it sounds like you just don't enjoy 2001: A Space Odyssey...

Correct.
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Bear Bro
The Empire of Silence

OUTLIER

Poke 77
CoolCly 52
Inviso 30
Johnbobb 26
KBM 23
Karo 18
Stifled 10

Is Poke really a nun? Is Cly really the Man with No Name? Are Inviso and Johnbobb the two mules? Are KBM, Karo, and Stifled a bunch of revolutionaries? Nah.
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Bear Bro
The Empire of Silence

Poke: Clint gets to be more expressive in this film, which greatly boosts it as a result. I love his chemistry with Shirley MacLaine and its just a really fun, engaging film. And towards the end.what a tweest! That was enjoyable.

Karo: A nun being raped in the desert is saved by a cowboy who is not the Man With No Name, but is clearly changed just enough to avoid a lawsuit from Sergio Leone.
This hero spends all of his time thinking about fucking her and bemoaning what a waste it is for her to be a nun and asking her intrusive questions about why doesn't she become a 'real woman' and make some babies.
Sara then follows the man around for various increasingly arbitrary reasons, and he lets her do this for even MORE arbitrary reasons.
I feel there was some potential for this scenario but nothing really works as well at it ought to largely due to an obsession with the mexican freedom fighter plot line that gives us nothing other then the world's stupidest fort siege where the plan is nonsensical, the execution mindless, and everyone chucks around lit dynamite like looney tunes characters.
So yeah, the french are defeated, the nun is really a prostitute, and the hero tries to fuck her in the bathtub while still wearing all his clothes because he apparently never learned how sex works.
Just take a hard pass on this unoriginal and unmemorable donkey show.

CoolCly: This was alright. The partnership of the dollar store version of the Man with No Name and the fake nun was decent. It definitely feels like a knockoff version of the Dollars movies with Clint Eastwood playing the same character yet again. Did he do this in all Westerns? I'm not so sure I love John Wayne's performances, but I definitely felt like he was a different person in every movie in the list he was in.

In general it feels like the film making is of a higher quality than a lot of the earlier movies in the list, but below the other movies released at the same time like the Dollars movies and True Grit. So overall, this was an average movie at best. It has less interesting concepts than a lot of movies Ive ranked below it, but it was at least more fun to watch. I dont know if Id recommend it, but its close.

5/10

Inviso: On the one hand, the concept of a badass gunslinger traveling around with a cool nun is inherently funny and warrants attention. But on the other hand, this movie manages to take that concept and make it as bland and generic as possible. I get that Sister Sara is meant to be the lead, since shes top billed and all, but the setting turns Clint Eastwood into the de facto lead. And unlike other films hes been in on this list, playing second fiddle to Sara drains him of his inherent swagger and charisma. Theres still amusement to be found, namely in having Saras mask slip and reveal that shes not averse to the rowdy ways of a cowboy lifestyle. But overall, the film just kinda drags along for a while, and the ending feels like it wraps up a generic western story, while Sara (again, supposedly the lead) has her ending tacked on rather haphazardly.

KBM: This movie could have been so much more interesting, if only the eponymous Sister Sara had actually turned out to be a nun. It was obvious early on that she wasn't, between the way she talked, the way she acted, and the way people reacted to her but to just spend the entire movie waiting for the inevitable reveal, while Clint Eastwood awkwardly hits on her and doesn't cotton on that she's not who she says she is until they literally walk into the whorehouse... it's just exhausting, and not nearly as fun as I think the movie was intended to be. If Sister Sara had actually been a nun, there there would have been some actual tension in the movie before the third act. I do have to admit that there is some good material in the third act the cinematography and music as the Juaristas walk up the stairs to the roof of the building adjacent to the garrison make for a memorable scene, and the big battle at the end caught me off-guard with how relentless and violent it was kind of a tonal shift, yes, but a shift into a tone I thought the entire movie could have benefited from. It just feels like the only person involved in this production who really gave it her all was Shirley MacLaine, and her performance just isn't quite enough to save this subpar outing.

Johnbobb: god I don't caaaaaaare. Hogan and Sara both suck, but especially Hogan like gtfo with that "hey that time you were about to be raped was so hot I wanna fuck you" shit, like who do you think you are. But plot twist she's a prostitute dressed like a nun and not actually a nun so it's actually fine, and crazy too because after the nun blew up a train conductor I was totally convinced she was legit. Looking up the movie a lot of critics compared it to The African Queen which is good because that movie sucked too; movies about two famous people being either boring or awful in a dangerous setting and falling in love just BECAUSE doesn't make for a good movie, even if you set it in the desert.
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Bear Bro
The Empire of Silence

I meeeeean it could've been the 90s!

#25. Two Mules for Sister Sara 147 points

Poke 5
Karo 18
CoolCly 20
Stifled 22
Inviso 26
KBM 27
Johnbobb 29

Very poor plot description:
A man driven by his wallet and his dick fights in a war to help a total NILF.

Why it was included:
Shirley MacLaine got top billing over Clint Eastwood. That makes her a legitimate female lead in a western. Do you know how rare that is? Such a unicorn belongs on this list. Additionally, just a fun fact here, but this is an infamous movie in my family. Whenever we sit down to watch it, at least one person always falls asleep. Its like a curse or something. Once, EVERYONE fell asleep. It certainly isnt a boring movie or anything either! I have no idea whats going on. But I managed to break the curse by watching it by myself and I stayed awake the whole time! Although admittedly I felt really tired that day. Coincidence?

What Stifled thinks:
Going into this, I thought for sure Id love it. A foul mouthed, booze chugging nun is guaranteed to get a chuckle or greater from me. So a whole entire movie with Clint Eastwood fighting the good fight for nun boners should be a laugh riot right? Wellno. Partly, yes. But mostly, no. Admittedly, I was a little put off at first with the obvious similarities between Clints Hogan character and The Man with No Name character. As the movie progressed, these similarities became less and less bothersome, but at first it was jarring. Even the wardrobe was kinda similar! Not to mention the entire war subplot felt ripped right out of that one section of The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly. Lets put that aside though, shall we? Because the chemistry between MacLaine and Eastwood is excellent. Their relationship is what makes the movie entertaining. Hogan is basically an anime perv trying to get in her pants and she uses the Lord to cock block him. The moments we see Sara break character and reveal she isnt as pure as she puts on are great and provide the feeling that a big surprise is coming. And it isbut its not what you think. See, I was hoping she was actually a nun, but just a vulgar nun. Like maybe she was a criminal-turned-nun or something. But it ends up being the opposite and she is just pretending to be a nun. And thats fine and all, butnot what I wanted. Oh and dont even get me started how the movie became One Donkey for Sister Sara partway through! Maybe Im being picky, but whatever. The war scene was pretty cool except the damn bugle. Very, very violent in spots. Im always surprised what PG ratings got away with back then. Luckily I was skeptical and didnt watch it with my kids. So did I enjoy the movie? Technically, yes. And I think if I watch it again without any expectations, I think Ill enjoy it a lot more. But for this viewing, Im gonna call it average.
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Bear Bro
The Empire of Silence

I'm going to do another one shortly. Here's a hint!

We're going to take a break from murdering things in the 40s, 50s, and 60s for this entry.
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Bear Bro
The Empire of Silence

Zithers posted...

there is nothing wrong with 2001 tbh, definitely in contention for greatest movie ever made

caught a 70mm print of it as my first movie back in the theaters, pretty transporting

major reference point when it comes to determining if someone is worth respecting or condescending to when discussing cinema

Now here's a caricature of a film snob if I've ever seen one.

If your major reference point is a director jerking himself off for two hours with bright seizure colors, National Geographic homages, obnoxious beeping, dumb spooky music, multiple plays of the Blue Danube, slow moving EVERYTHING, and total nonsense that only the most up-their-own-ass types think evokes a deep, thoughtful message, then I will happily accept any and all condescension you have to offer.
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Bear Bro
The Empire of Silence

OUTLIER

Poke 57
CoolCly 47
Inviso 29
Johnbobb 22
KBM 21
Karo 11
Stifled 7

Poke and Cly attempt a wild west bromance way ahead of the pack while the rest of us drop everything and do some line dancing.
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Bear Bro
The Empire of Silence

CoolCly: So this is the legendary Wyatt Earp and Doc Holiday of Tombstone? Ive heard of these guys so much but never really knew why they were so famous. They seem like a common historical

Wyatt and Docs early scenes of meeting each other are very interesting Doc almost seems villainous, but Wyatt chooses to befriend him instead of antagonizing him (too much). Both Clementine and Chihuahua have somewhat limited roles in the movie, but I think they are both pretty well done, especially compared to most women westerns. Clementines role is somewhat minor considering the movie and the memorable melody are named for her.
I love how Doc is constantly trying to antagonize and provoke Wyatt but it never works until he leaves town (for his own reasons relating to Clementine and angry at Wyatt), and Wyatt pursues thinking Doc had something to do with the murder of his brother, and finally draws on him and wins handily. Yet, the very next scene Doc is 100% on Wyatts side to help him figure out whats going on with his brother, his own petty feuds forgotten. Despite his faults, thats who Doc Holiday chooses to be. I like it a lot.
The emergency surgery for Chihuahua had a good amount of tension, and I like how Doc didnt give up on her and fought for her just as strongly, even though she cheated on him. The movie is set up to treat her as the throwaway cheating villain, with Clementine being Docs true love. Especially with how Wyatt treats her like garbage the whole movie. But Doc doesnt change how he views her and tries his hardest to save her. Hes DOCTOR John Holiday.

The theatre scene is an interesting way to endear both of them. I liked the actors role very well.
The shootout at the OK Corral is very limited by the film making at the time but I liked the attempt at creating a mazelike environment where characters were turned around. Doc went down a bit too easy for my liking, but overall, Id call that whole set piece a success.

I genuinely loved this movie, and Im very grateful that, along with Stagecoach, this movie set the tone for me on how great westerns, even incredibly aged westerns, can be.

9/10

Poke: The OK Corral cast mixed with some romances and the film is quite good with some solid performances.

Inviso: This wasnt especially enjoyable. The ending was fine, as is expected from the story of Wyatt Earp and the shootout at the O.K. Corral, but everything leading up to it was just so meandering and dull. The relationship melodrama of Doc, Wyatt, Clementine and Chihuahua just did nothing to intrigue me and make me want to keep watching the movie. Basically, the plot sets up a crime early in the movie, with that as the inciting incident that drives Wyatt Earp to take on the marshal position in the first place. But theres so much filler between the crime and the eventual resolution of the crime, with so much blandness devoted to the growing relationship between Doc and Wyatt (which ends with Doc unceremoniously gunned down during the shootout). This just didnt do anything for me.

KBM: Largely forgettable, and overshadowed by other, better retellings of the same story. You also get really, really tired of hearing that goddamn song over and over again. The acting is largely pretty good, though, and it at least features some beautiful cinematography. I just have never jibed with the pacing and overall tone of John Ford's movies, though, and this one, though not as offensive as some, is still no exception.

Johnbobb: This has to be one of the most overhyped films I've seen. The one thing I'll admit about this is that it is incredibly well-shot. Cinematography and use of shadows are pretty top-notch, especially for a film from the 40s. Other than that... average acting at best (with Linda Darnell as fuckin Chihuahua was pretty awful, despite also being the only character with half a personality). Bland storytelling and bland music choices. I just really can't wrap my head around why this is praised beyond the cinematography

Karo: A movie about Wyatt Earp and his famous shootout at a certain rather mediocre corral featuring a lot of, uh.. alternative facts.
For all of being such famous lawmen of the old west, here the Earp brothers are incredibly stupid and naive. They leave only one person guarding their valuable cattle while they head off aimlessly into an unknown and dubiously-named town to get shaves and seem genuinely shocked that the wild west is, well, wild.
Anyway, after the murder of his most useless brother at the hands of cattle rustlers, Wyatt takes the job as marshal of the town in order to hunt the killers down. He then promptly does nothing for days except play poker and lean back lackadaisically in his chair on the porch. Mind you, it is fucking obvious who the killers are but Wyatt just pisses around until his dead brother's necklace randomly turns up because lol.
This fossil of a film is a lengthy and boring endeavor that is repeatedly sidetracked from its main plot by singing 'Mexican' girls and random bouts of Shakespeare, and is probably better used as a sleeping pill instead of entertainment.
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Bear Bro
The Empire of Silence

#26. My Darling Clementine 152 points

CoolCly 5
Poke 22
Inviso 23
KBM - 25
Stifled 25
Johnbobb 26
Karo 26

Very poor plot synopsis:
A band of brothers in the non-military sense perform a non-hostile takeover of a town because they couldnt get a good shave. They meet a doctor, a small orange, and a bunch of D list criminals. They settle their differences in a corral that was rated not great, but just OK.

Why it was included:
The story of Wyatt Earp, Doc Holliday, the town of Tombstone, and the gunfight at the OK Corral have been beaten like all the dead horses in True Grit. If youre not interested in watching all of them, the trick is to track down the best of the bunch. For the purposes of this list, I opted to choose an older one and a newer one. The newer one, of course, is 1993s Tombstone. Choosing the older was a tad harder, but My Darling Clementine stood out to me for two specific reasons. Firstly, I recognized the title in relation to the song. As a kid, Id see Huckleberry Hound cartoons where he would sing that song. For a blue cartoon dog to pick that song of all songs to sing, it seemed to me the movie must be important. It was also referenced in a favorite movie of mine, Snow Day. The guy on the snow plot named his plow after the movie. If a random Nickelodeon movie appreciates this film, then so do I. Secondly, in the movie Its a Wonderful Life, Mr. Potter can be seen watching My Darling Clementine in his office. And dammit, if its good enough for a nasty real estate and business mogul, its good enough for me.

What Stifled thinks:
I have very mixed feelings about this one. On one hand, I loved the relationship between Wyatt and Doc. Their introduction scene in the casino was a meeting of badasses who gained mutual respect for each other. Their friendship created an interesting dynamic of the lawman and the man of vice working together for the good off the town. The town itself feels appropriately lively as well. I was impressed because a lot of these towns in westerns are a bunch of big empty space, but not so with this version of Tombstone. Everything was going so well, but then the titular Clementine rolls into town and shit starts getting dull. This movie didnt need a romance subplot. The bromance was more than enough for me. But instead we get off track and have a lot of downtime, stupid dance scenes, and unnecessary drama between Wyatt and Doc. The villains were pretty lame too, if Im being honest. They were hardly ever around until the battle at the end. And I have beef with that battle too! I know its the wild fucking west and all, but good lord was there too much dust and smoke. I could barely keep track of the action. When your whole entire film is leading up to this legendary moment in time, the least you could do is make it visible! For me, this went from a potential top ten movie to a bottom ten movie in what could best be described as a tale of two halves.
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Bear Bro
The Empire of Silence

Helga
Toph
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Bear Bro
The Empire of Silence

Zithers posted...

2001 ranked 27th in the scifi list lol

Youre right. It shouldve been ranked in last place.
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Bear Bro
The Empire of Silence

Lack of sleep finally caught up to me and I passed out pretty early last night. Ill try to do at least two at some point today/tonight.
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Bear Bro
The Empire of Silence

I don't exactly think Ford is a white supremacist. One can fight Nazis and hate Native Americans. The two aren't connected. I'm strictly saying his art reflects his feelings on the Natives.

And everyone goes into a movie with preconceived notions, good or bad. You can be excited about a movie you've been wanting to see, or dread a movie you are watching not for yourself but for a project. But what matters is the opinion is genuine after the watch. Any kind of bias going in can be changed after. I believe the reviews from this group are the genuine article.
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Bear Bro
The Empire of Silence

CoolCly posted...

this is interesting. i dont know anything about John Ford, but my impression was that Ethan's hatred of Comanche was intentionally done as a character flaw that was consuming him. Would Ford be self aware enough to have Ethan overcome that to represent his own integration in society?

I think so, yes. My theory is that Ford was hoping Ethan would fire everyone up about the Natives again, but at the same time he knew better and had Ethan's defeat mirror his own.
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Bear Bro
The Empire of Silence

I like Wayne's acting quite a bit. He's got a presence about him that makes his performances so believable. But yes, not all of the movies he's in are winners, I agree.
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Bear Bro
The Empire of Silence

OUTLIER

Poke 53
Inviso 26
CoolCly 26
Johnbobb 22
KBM 20
Karo 11
Stifled 6

Poke continues to ride off into the sunset and hopefully not kill his niece in the process. Johnbobb tries to join Poke on this long journey but doesnt fundamentally agree with why hes there. Everyone else was scalpingsome tickets online.
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Bear Bro
The Empire of Silence

Poke: This was an epic that spanned a number of years for the characters. I was invested in the characters and their motives. I really, really wanted Johns character to find his niece. Every time it seemed like there was hope, it was dashed, only to renew again. Quit playing with my emotions! Wonderfully shot film.

Johnbobb: https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1Eo6eJqFLRMBs4HpGu2fcReH1E3-uOxzw9H1FK8BkPFo/edit?usp=sharing

CoolCly: This is another movie where I thought the premise was good but didnt enjoy watching it play out. The initial chase where they try to recover both girls but end up finding one has been killed was good. Theres a sense of desperation and anger. It kinda felt like they let that one guy run into his death a little too easily, but I suppose thats fine.
After that, I didnt really feel any strong thrust to the plot. A lot of ambling around, and the part with the Indian wife felt very strange, especially since it doesnt seem like they would have respected it.

The interesting angle is that the uncle is super competent but very Comanche hating, and the adopted brother was worried hed kill the girl if she becomes naturalized to the Comanche.
When they finally find her, she says shes one of them now and refuses to leave. Uncle tries to kill her and brother gets in the way. Next time, she happily comes with and Uncle seems like hell kill her but doesnt.. Happily ever after.
This didnt feel like it was resolved in any satisfying way. The girl and the uncle both just flipped positions because the point in the plot required them to. Very disappointing.
Generally, I think native americans were portrayed extremely poorly here.

3.6/10

Inviso: This movie was far too long given how winding and meandering its plot ends up being. Were introduced to John Waynes character as this like, misanthropic Confederate soldier returning home from multiple wars, and we barely get enough home life to explain his family being attacked and killed by Comanches. Thats all fine. Its a good inciting incident. But the problem is that the movie cannot settle on a tone. John Wayne and his nephew (and a third guy who dies relatively quickly) go out searching for the tribe that attacked their homestead, along with two kidnapped daughters, and the rest of the movie is an at LEAST five-year journey searching for the younger of the two girls. Theres a weird, comic relief bald guy. Theres a subplot about the nephew getting married off to a squaw (which goes from comedic to tragic as shes gunned down by soldiers soon after). Theres a bizarre subplot about the nephews love interest marrying someone else, leading to a dust-up upon the nephew returning home just in time for her wedding. And ultimately, the payoff to all of this disjointed plot is rescuing the one surviving daughter (after a brief instance of her renouncing her whiteness to live as a Comanche), but it just feels like such a weird plot that I didnt find myself enjoying throughout the film.

Karo: A pioneer settlement comes under attack by indian raiders, which causes them to send their youngest daughter off wandering into the wilderness because I guess they expect an 8 year old girl to be able to outwit dozens of native trackers or something. So of course she is kidnapped by the brutal Comanche war chief... Scar, who oddly enough is a white man in some really bad native cosplay but nobody seems to notice.
So this trio of cowboy dudes sets off on a journey to recover and/or kill the missing girl, with some stops along the way for a spot of spousal abuse and some casual desecration of indian burial grounds.
What should have been a story focused on the search instead is bogged down in to a mess of inconsequential subplots, unfunny comic relief characters, and random jumps through time without warning.
The film is dated beyond the threshold of pain and the characters act so inconstant it is hard to see them as real human beings. Ethan goes from concerned uncle to homicidal maniac and back again with no explanation. Debbie wants to stay with 'her people' until suddenly she wants to come home again. I have no idea what is going on with Martin, except to speculate maybe he was dropped on his head as a child.
Horses are riden. Indians are massacred. The camera is panned through picturesque desert vistas. Two hours of my life is wasted.
There is no reason to ever watch this piece of drek unless you are some kind of lead paint ingesting redneck who wants to cheer 'USA! USA!' to John Wayne shooting up some 'injuns' as you chug down moonshine and have sex with your sister.

KBM: I guess it was interesting to see Jeffrey Hunter in something other than the original Star Trek pilot as the original Captain Pike. This is one, though, where the racism really overwhelms everything else for me. Reading up on the making of the film, I guess they were TRYING to be even-handed, by '50s standards, but despite some beautiful landscape photography, this one's just dated as all hell and features both John Wayne at his most unlikable and John Ford at his most typically slow-paced and politically regressive.
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Bear Bro
The Empire of Silence

And on that subject, here's another classic film we ranked low lmao

#27. The Searchers 158 points

Poke 4
Johnbobb 17
CoolCly 25
Stifled 27
Inviso 28
Karo 28
KBM 29

Very poor plot synopsis:
Murdery man is so murdery he would murder a murder of crows. He wants to murder his niece because she doesnt go yee haw anymore, pilgrim.

Why it was included:
If you set out to read a critics list of the greatest westerns of all time, The Searchers will likely appear on all of them. And truly, there are good reasons why. The cinematography is excellent. The performances, whatever you might take from them, are enthralling. It definitely has something to say and it shouts it at you. But what are they saying exactly? Is this a movie about coming to terms with someone/something you once thought was an enemy and moving on? Is this a movie about feeling isolated when everyone around you moves on from an antiquated ideal and you still believe youre right? Or is this movie actually a big litmus test to determine where the country stood at the time in terms of feelings toward Native Americans? The brilliant thing about this movie is you could make a case for any or all of those and have a valid point. This is certainly a movie that warrants a discussion, and I was eager to bring that discussion to Board 8.

What Stifled thinks:
Im going to be 100% honest here. I dont believe John Ford has a nuanced bone in his body. Stagecoach painted a picture that The Searchers signed in the corner. When I watched these movies, I felt hatred towards Native Americans. In Stagecoach, Ringo was shown to have kindness towards those treated unfairly, yet he gladly dispatched the Natives like rabid animals. Fast forward to The Searchers and I see more of the same. A grizzled John Wayne takes it to the next level and goes on a quest to find his niece, but when he doesnt like what he finds, his thoughts immediately turn to murder. He no longer sees her as a person, but as a rabid animal that needs to be put down. I saw this as John Fords last gasp to try and see if people sympathized with his Ethan character. Because you see, I believe Ethan IS John Ford. Fords masterpiece puts himself on the screen because he is frustrated by a country slowly coming to terms with their mistakes. He wants to continue the hate and Ethan is his vessel. The ending of Ethan not killing his niece is a begrudging acceptance. An acceptance that he must change his ways to blend in with society, and it kills him inside. Could I be completely wrong about this? Of course. But thats how I felt when I watched this. The very fact I could tinfoil hat a movie so much easily keeps it out of last place. Plus, you know, lovely frontier scenery porn and convincing acting performances.
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The Empire of Silence

I think that's a very egotistical way of looking at this. The important thing is to expose people to the classics to broaden their horizons, not that they MUST like the classics or they are "normies" that "don't understand movies". The rankers of these projects have always given every movie a fair shake. While you could definitely say older movies are ranked lower on average, saying they are shunning and auto-trashing those films don't fit the bill here. And quite frankly, I think anyone who says they didn't submit because older movies tend to get ranked low is a cover for "I didn't feel like doing the writeups."
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And yes, I echo the sentiments of my fellow rankers. I see a lot of complaining but no lists submitted. There was more than enough time for this to get done. Hell, Cly powered through it in about a month.
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The Empire of Silence

OUTLIER

Poke 30
Inviso 25
CoolCly 24
KBM 18
Johnbobb 12
Karo 10
Stifled 6

As Poke walks away, Inviso and CoolCly yell come back Poooooke! Not because they actually want him to come back, but because hes now winning/losing/whatever metric suits you. KBM wanted to get involved in the final battle, but ended up unconscious at the farm. Then Johnbobb, Karo, and Stifled took one look at the battle against dumb land barons and was like nah.
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Poke: Some of the best fighting scenes that look realistic. Shane is a straight up boss and I just loved the overall story of a stand-up guy looking out for people who he has come to love.

KBM: Okay, yes, the kid is a little annoying. But he could have been worse, and he's very much NOT the focal point of the movie, so even as someone who usually can't stand annoying kid characters in movies, I found him largely forgivable, because damn, this was a fun watch in spite of it. I really enjoyed Alan Ladd's softspoken performance as Shane; as laconic as many of the gunslingers on this list were, there was a quiet, subtle nuance to his performance that only Jean-Louis Trintignant's performance as Silence came close to, unlike the blunt gruffness of an Eastwood type, or the folksy charisma of John Wayne or Gary Cooper. The way Shane played off of all the various characters in the ensemble cast was also consistently interesting, whether it's his undeniable chemistry with Jean Arthur as the homesteader's wife, or the electric fights he picks with his natural adversaries in town. And how about Jack Palance? What an iconic performance he gives here. Between his chillingly casual, smiling demeanor, and that incredible scene where he shoots Elisha Cook, Jr., he manages to give one of the greatest villain performances on the entire list (and all while the actor was apparently extremely uncomfortable on horseback, to boot). If it weren't for the kid, this would be a top tenner easy, but as it stands, it's still one that I'll never forget and will probably watch again at some point, because the good things about it are just SO good and largely overwhelm anything negative I'd have to say.

Johnbobb: oh my god will shane and joe just bang already

CoolCly: Shane himself was a pretty boring and generic drifter with some gunslinging skills.
The dad homesteader is pretty compelling in his values and goals, and he was very well acted. He was the highlight of the movie for me. Its kinda interesting to see the town shop that the homesteaders to do their shopping and that sort of thing. Some interesting mundane details. I wonder if they were based on actual life then.
The villains who want their land are pretty generic, but the way they provoked that loudmouth guy that was itching for a fight was pretty good.
Unfortunately, the kid that just yells about Shaaaaaaaaaaane is unbearable. I hated this kid, and yet hes the lens we watch the movie through. Therefore, I hated this movie and would anti recommend it to anyone who might ask me about it.
2/10

Karo: This lone gunman wanders into town and befriends a group of farmers who in the true spirit of the old west have just stolen other people's land by camping out on it and calling it their own.
These squatters are the heroes apparently just because they have kids or something and the other side is in the wrong 'for reasons'. Fuck you I'm going to fence up your cow pasture and you don't have the right to complain because think of the children!
Speaking of children, the main farmer couple have this ugly little gremlin who is almost like the deuteragonist for no reason. Like the little fucking brat forces himself into every scene in the movie despite having almost nothing to do with anything that is going on. Like we'll be trying to have a scene that is serious or moving and then suddenly there will be random high-pitched squealing hey shane shane lookit me oh youre so cool shane bang bang bang im a cowboy heeba deeba herpa derp
It's like the producer's kid was playing on the set during filming and they had to leave him in because he was the producer's kid.
So anyway Shane goes and kills all the ranchers for having the gall to complain about their stolen land. The kid saves Shane's life because of course he does. Shane then rides off into the sunset and leaves a small child alone in town in the middle of the night surrounded by the dead bodies of everyone he murdered. And thus was the tale of how the west was dumb.

Inviso: I wanted to give this movie a fair shake, because on paper, the idea of homesteaders fighting back after being threatened off their land has potential to be interesting. But unfortunately for this movie, it has one of the most obnoxious and most overused child actors Ive ever seen in one of these lists. It was like watching a bad 80s/90s kids movie, with Shane (a gunfighting, human male) as the pet that the little kid has to yell at and send off into the sunset by saying he hates him. And the scenes with the kid just go on forEVER. Im gonna chirp bang! over and over and over again, even though my mom is clearly upset at the gunfighting stuff. Im gonna wail Shane! over and over and over again. I just couldnt enjoy any aspect of this film because of how cheesy and immature it made the plot seem, even compared to some of the worst movies Ive watched thus far.
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Bear Bro
The Empire of Silence

#28. Shane - 159 points

Pokewars 6
KBM 11
Johnbobb 25
CoolCly 29
Karo - 29
Stifled - 29
Inviso 30

Very poor plot synopsis:
You see, Joey, your father and that drifter are your new mommy and daddy. Im just here to cook for all of you.

Why it was included:
This is perhaps one of the most famous westerns of all. The timeless tale of the mysterious drifter that is taken in by a family and everyone learns something from each other. He bonds with the parents, but also bonds with their child. Weve seen this story many times. A good example that comes to mind is the episode of Avatar: The Last Airbender called Zuko Alone. The banished prince of the Fire Nation finds himself separated from his Uncle Iroh and is taken in by a nice family for a meal. Zuko does hard work for them, bonds with them, even teaches the little boy of the house a few things. When things get tough for the family, Zuko steps in to help. However, when his past becomes far too apparent and too dangerous, he opts to move on. As Im sure you can surmise, the creators of the show were inspired heavily by Shane. I believe when something so beloved in the modern era can pay such homage to a classic, said classic is worth taking a look at.

What Stifled thinks:
A number 29 on most lists is a miss for most people, but not for me. I did actually enjoy watching Shane. Granted, Shane did not age as well as Id hoped. I adored this film as a child, but its flaws are much more apparent in my adult years. And listenI dont want to be that guy because Im a parent and I get it, butthe kid is fucking annoying. He really is. There is a big difference between being mischievous and curious andwhat that kid is. Im not sure if the director thought kids had to be annoying at all times. Im not sure if perhaps the director felt kids exist to cause conflict between family members. But this is what we got on screen. The kid was basically trying to cuck out his dad for Shane in this one scene where he was asking who would win in a fight. And why on earth would they fight (before the end of the movie lmao)? The bromance between Joe and Shane was the highlight. They had each others backs, especially in that brawl in the general store. It was such a joy to watch. And honestly, if the kid was just a background character and the focus was totally on Shane and Joe vs the baddies, Id be on board. You knoweven though the baddies are complete fucking morons. They literally asked the kid to come work with them. Are you serious? And likewhy didnt Joe and Shane work together at the end? I know its the classic I need to do this myself shit and all, but still. I think the ending would have been better with the father being involved in the fight, especially with the kid watching. But its fine. The movie is still deservedly a classic. Its just worth noting it has its flaws.
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Bear Bro
The Empire of Silence

LinkMarioSamus posted...

Admittedly that's fair, but still. The idea of someone being astonished that there were even movies made in 1939 is kind of precious considering the most successful movie of all time came out that year.

Then again my favorite movie of all time involves brownface.

Thats how you learn though. Folks not well versed in movie history wouldnt assume the technology was available in the 30s. Its a fun and interesting fact to learn. Same goes for any subject. Im not going to pretend I know the history of medical technology, for example.
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Bear Bro
The Empire of Silence

OUTLIER

Inviso 23
CoolCly 23
Karo 9
Johnbobb 9
Poke 8
Stifled 5
KBM 1

CoolCly hops in the stagecoach with Inviso and speeds away from the rest of the pack. Karo, Johnbobb, Poke, and Stifled were in not-so-hot pursuit of the stagecoach for reasons they could not explain. KBM just kept saying Geronimo over and over again to trigger the amusing soundtrack.
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CoolCly: I really didnt know what to expect with such old movies. Im not sure I even realized they made movies in 1939, and I certainly didnt think they would have things figured out like good writing and acting. But this movie surprised me, and was a great way to start the viewing. The ensemble here is very strong with each passenger of the stage having their own distinctive and memorable character, and the interactions and conflicts among them were good.

I liked the main lawmans acting, and John Wayne was pretty solid. Doc Boon was an interesting character. His alcoholism is treated as a problem, especially when they need to call on him for his expertise, though they really joke it off at the end. His scene in the bar at the end where he stands up to the guys going to the shootout is really good.

Hatfields glee at shooting Apache Indians is very strange to see after his stern demeanor the entire movie coming up to this. His intent to shoot the woman with his last bullet to spare her from being captured but getting shot offscreen first and dropping the gun was surprisingly dark.
The charming rogue with a heart of gold really is timeless. Whether its Starlord today, or Han Solo 40 years ago, or John Waynes Ringo in 1939, there he is. His decency towards the woman is pretty nice, always standing up for her when shes clearly the outcast and not giving an F that shes a hooker.

The action is really just people riding and chasing after the stagecoach while the stagecoach shoot at them one by one but it was actually pretty fun to watch. It was an engaging start to the action with the Docs toast and Mr Peacock getting arrowed like that. The stunt of the guy jumping on the horses and then getting shot several times with Ringo was pretty good. Did that guy literally get trampled by horses?? Fucking LOL at the cavalry showing up with their bugle and waving sabres around.

The shootout at the end was super quick, but the build up to it was pretty good. I had no idea who that guy that wanted to kill Ringo even was but the tension was palpable in town, and the Doc standing up to that dude in the bar was pretty nice.

All in all, Im really impressed with this movie. The cast and plotting were very strong. The aging of the film making does hold this back a bit but I think this establishes a firm baseline on what a western can be. I expect any other Western on the list to exceed what Stagecoach did in 1939, and if it doesnt and falls below it in my list, then it wasnt worth watching.

5.5/10

Pokewars: I enjoy the group dynamics in movies where they all have different motivations, points-of view. Cast plays off each other well, and we get some solid action for such an older film.

Inviso: On paper, I should like this movie a lot more than I do. Its right up my alley of throwing together a disparate group of personalities and forcing them to work together in a relatively-enclosed storyline. But ultimately, the personalities themselves are a little bit too flat and one-dimensional, and they dont play off each other very well. Yeah, everyone interacts with one another well enough, but its like unless you have a very specific relationship (Kid/Curley or Kid/Dallas), then the story is painted as surface-level conversations at best. This leads to the plot feeling very dry, and this wasnt a particularly interesting watch. I will say its hilarious to see John Wayne, who looks grizzled and old regardless of the movie, called The Ringo Kid. But thats all I really have to say.

Johnbobb: There's definitely a portion of films on this list that I'm not dreading but not necessarily looking forward to. The "John Wayne is charming but also racist, pilgrim" era. Here Wayne shines by being the only person to treat the prostitute (I assume that's what was implied) as literal garbage. Don't know if it's indicative of the times or just society in general that the actively wanted escaped criminal is treated with more compassion and welcoming than the sex worker looking for a better life. I do love the concept of unrelated strangers with completely different backstories being forced together under dire circumstances and learning things they have in common. It's a concept that's been done thousands of times since though, and often better, as man of these are pretty thinly developed characters. Overall, not bad.

Karo: This fat moron runs the west's first taxi service and we see how many weird characters he can manage to fit into one stagecoach including but not limited to, a drunkard, a convict, and the worlds thinnest pregnant woman.
The first half of the film is just basically like playing Oregon Trail except less interesting and without the dysentery, and I am waiting for SOMETHING to happen to just make the agony stop.
Finally something does happen and they get ambushed by indians, which of course end up as nothing but fodder for our reject cowboys to carelessly murder for their audacity to try and resist genocide.
Even after what is seemingly the climax they randomly go off with the convict trying to get his revenge on a bunch of guys who put him in jail, which the marshal just lets happen because what is wrong with everyone in this movie. Predictably, they meet in the street in the center of town, but because they are just so stupid they confuse AM with PM and have a showdown at high midnight. Said showdown is anticlimatic and not even shown because of course it isnt.
Fuck right off with this cheap old-timey rubbish.

KBM: The most enjoyment I got out of this was whenever the characters would say the name Geronimo and the soundtrack would play this totally overbearing Villain Sting music. That aspect of this movie was pretty fun. Other than that, though, this really isn't one that stands the test of time. In fact, this movie is sort of indicative of what I went into this project THINKING most Westerns would be like, and why I expected to enjoy this list of films a good deal less than I ended up doing. I realize this codified a lot of the big Western tropes, but they're just tropes I don't enjoy. A few mildly interesting character moments aside (once you ignore all the Confederate sympathizing ugh), it just all devolves into a dull let's see how many of these evil savage Injuns we can shoot third act that simultaneously bores me and turns my stomach with its intrinsic dehumanization. I can see why this launched John Wayne into the spotlight, though he's actually all right here, and even proves he can emote a little bit on occasion. But overall, this one (like so many John Ford movies, imo) is wildly overrated.
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Bear Bro
The Empire of Silence

You were close. It was a John Wayne movie...

#29. Stagecoach 164 points

CoolCly 17
Pokewars 21
Inviso 22
Johnbobb 23
Stifled 26
Karo 27
KBM 28

Very poor plot synopsis:
Imagine there are a bunch of people trapped in an elevator. Now imagine the elevator is using Super Nintendo Mode-7 and is being pulled by horses. For good measure, imagine the horse-drawn elevator being attacked by a tribe of Native Americans for reasons no one will bother to explain very well. Oh, and this one dude on the elevator with you is a wanted criminal, but pay that no mind. Hes a GREAT GUY.

Why it was included:
Believe it or not, Stagecoach was a big deal when it came out. Westerns were considered a sort of b-movie type of entertainment around this time. Then Stagecoach came along and people started taking them more seriously. Along with the genre itself, director John Ford, and star John Wayne also got huge career boosts from Stagecoach. As if that werent enough, Stagecoach was also an originator of the toss a bunch of people with different personality quirks together in a tight space or bad situation trope found in many movies, including a few others on this list! This is also probably the most stereotypical western kind of western on the list with outlaws, battles with the Natives, horses, the cavalry coming to the rescue, saloons, frontier scenery porn, and more all crammed into one movie. For better or worse, I am definitely doing my job showing you folks the history of the genre.

What Stifled thinks:
Despite the low ranking, I actually quite enjoyed Stagecoach. It suffered from the treatment of Native Americans as a group of feral wild animals out for blood, of course. And I could care so less about Ringos tacked on bullshit at the end of the film. But the chemistry between the cast was quite good. The excellent battle on the moving stagecoach was the best part of the movie, and should have served as the climax, save for a small scene or two afterwards. Forget saying it was good for its time, that sequence was good for any time. I was impressed. Also, any Disneys Robin Hood fans out there probably noticed the voice of Friar Tuck was the driver of the stagecoach!
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The Empire of Silence

Helga
Toph
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Forced enthusiasm: marketing at its finest!
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Im surprised now the giant spider wasnt wearing a dress. Yikes.

Next movie will drop tonight! Heres a small hint. And I mean that literally because the title of #29 only has one word in it.
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Bear Bro
The Empire of Silence

Yes sadly I rewatched it lol. I rewatched all the ones I had seen prior to keep it fair.
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The Empire of Silence

Inviso posted...

Also, it's been a few years since it was last relevant on one of these lists, but Poke ranked a film last that had a black lead. Coincidence? :P

From the director of Men in White and Honkeydependence Day comes a western thriller...with the Fresh Prince of Bel Air? Woah there, pilgrim, isn't that guy from Dawson's Creek available?!
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Bear Bro
The Empire of Silence

OUTLIER

Inviso 16
CoolCly 11
Karo 7
Johnbobb 3
Stifled 2
KBM 0
Poke 0

Inviso is off to a rocket start in the presidential train, closely followed by CoolCly on the ye olde huge mechanical spider. Karo, Johnbobb, and Stifled found themselves confused as to why Kevin Kline in drag fooled anyone and lagged to the middle of the pack. KBM and Poke made like Salma Hayek and bailed out of that lame love triangle for zero points to start.
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Writeups!

Inviso: This movie is dumb. Like, Im never gonna try to claim its some kind of high cinema. But for what it is, its enjoyable. Wild Wild West feels like a prototypical Robert Down Jr. Sherlock Holmes, or just a slightly more serious Austin Powers, set in the old west. Hell, remember that I was someone who ranked Men In Black VERY high compared to the ranking consensus when we did the sci-fi list. So its possible that I just have an affinity for the quippy charisma of Will Smith. Ultimately though, this is a classic buddy cop movie, just in a unique setting from the buddy cop movies of the eighties and early nineties. Youve got the impulsive, street-smart badass (Will Smith) and the nerdy, planning scientist (Kevin Kline) trying to work together despite the intense differences in their styles of investigation. Honestly, the biggest flaws and perhaps the reason this movie is so maligned is because the characterization is bad. West is given such inconsistent backstory beyond his character arc within the movie itself, and Artemis is given nothing. Also, Selma Hayek feels almost unnecessary to the overall plot, so theres that too. But whatever, I enjoyed the movie compared to many others on this list.

CoolCly: I came into this movie thinking I was doing to find it to be dumb Hollywood drivel, but I was surprised how much I actually liked it.
General BloodBath Magrath is exceptionally gross. I suppose thats mission accomplished though.
I enjoy Artemis Gordons preference for gadgets and disguise as his primary tools, but I feel like the way they play it at odds with Jim Wests shoot first style goes too far. Gordon is helpless in actual danger and West makes increasingly stupid decisions throughout the movie because shoot first.
That said Will Smith actually is pretty fuckin cool in this movie. The intro the president with Gordon in disguise was actually pretty damn good
I kinda like the villain, he's at least very memorable, and his babe minions are pretty unique too. The frankenstein gang that came out of nowhere on the spider were pretty cool too. And you gotta love the steam punk machinery he relies on.
The ending really went off the rails though. Will Smith's dancer costume just pushed things wayyy too far in a scene that should have had much higher tension and stakes. I was almost going to give this a much better rating.
The female character is honestly really badly written. Worse than classic western women.
5/10

Karo: Y'know there was this movie called Men In Black, but what if we did it again in the old west? Let's cast Will Smith again and have him team up with Inspector Gadget and have them banter with each other in a way that has zero humor! Aren't we amazing?
Smith tries his best to make this shit work but his character is unbelievable, unlikable, and unorginal. The plot would be idiotic in a children's movie and it doesnt have a clue what it wants to be except to have absolutely nothing work on any level.
Like its supposed to be this screwball buddy comedy but then we put all these themes of racism and ethnic cleansing in and it gets really uncomfortable. Like they literally have a scene where Smith's character is set upon by a mob of white southerners intent on a lynching. They then try to play it for laughs. Not in a dark comedy kind of way but rather 'ha ha this black man thinks he can go to a fancy ball but now we gonna hang him because he is black isnt this so funny' seriously what the fuck is wrong with this movie.
The main question I kept asking myself throughout this is 'can it get any stupider', and unfortunately the answer was always yes.
You can be funny without leaving reality so far behind that we end up with 50 foot tall spider mechs in the civil war era and with villains whose concept and appearance are so absurd I might as well be watching an episode of Power Rangers.

Johnbobb: If you take out the terrible acting, the stupid plot, the weird crossdressing jokes, and the poorly-aged visuals, you've still got a bad movie.

KBM: A deeply, deeply stupid film. I pause only a moment for consideration before shunting it into last place, and that single moment is brought to you by Kenneth Branagh's bizarre, over-the-top performance being something about the movie that's almost worth watching. But not really.

Pokewars: What a trainwreck. Look how they massacre my Kevin Kline, who was phenomenal in A Fish Called Wanda. What was anyone thinking signing on for this?
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Bear Bro
The Empire of Silence

#30. Wild Wild West 171 points

Inviso: 14
CoolCly: 19
Karo: 23
Johnbobb: 27
Stifled: 28
KBM: 30
Pokewars: 30

Very poor plot synopsis:
Will Smith, Kevin Kline, and various forms of discrimination star in this comedy that was 150% better in all of our childhoods when the bad jokes went over our heads. Oh and that one part was cool when we were all oooooh cool gigantic metal spider in the wild west!

Why it was included:
A bunch of folks were kind enough to give me ideas for movies to include on this list. Many were movies I already had in mind. A few I wouldnt have thought of. A few werespecial, shall we say. My original intent was to not waste any spots on a garbage flick, but I decided to not be so stiff and toss in a for fun kind of entry. It was between Wild Wild West and The Lone Ranger: Johnny Depp Edition. Basically, what made me include Wild Wild West was twofold. Firstly, a protagonist in a western not hailing from the sovereign nation of Caucasia isnt the most common occurrence in the genre. Gotta take that when you can get it. Secondly, I thought everyone might have fun childhood/teenage nostalgia for it.

Speaking of fun, you might think Will Smith was able to prevent this movie from flopping upon release, but youd be wrong! On a $170 million budget, it only raked in $222 million total with $114 of that coming from domestic box office sales. I noticed Warner Bros website bragged about Wild Wild West being #1 the weekend of its release, which sounds great on paper. But what was it up against you might ask? How about Big Daddy and Disneys Tarzan, both of which had been out multiple weeks prior. And even then, those two raked in $26 and $19 million that weekend respectively, compared to a newly released high budget Wild Wild West bringing in $36 million. This is especially sad considering it was 4th of July weekend. Men in Black and Independence Day both got over $50 million opening weekend. We have an oopsie on our hands. This particular western is not significant for moving the genre forward or making stars out of anyone. Its actually significant for the damage it did! This was Will Smiths first big flop. He was pretty much a box office summer blockbuster guarantee until this movie. Id argue he wasnt quite the same after Wild Wild Westsome good roles, but nothing of his prior caliber. After Earth, anyone? As for the western genre itself, it wouldnt see any sort of resurgence in popularity until a few years later. While I cant prove Wild Wild West held it back per se, can I prove it didnt? Nope.

What Stifled thinks:
Its hot garbage. Likenot even hot. Not steaming. This movie is garbage that is actively on fire. And Im not talking about your run of the mill, everyday kind of garbage. Im talking about dirty diapers, spoiled milk, moldy produce, and whatever you emptied out of your cats litter box all in one bag. Oh, and the bag ripped when the trash truck came to get it, so you (or me I suppose) subjected those poor civil servants to absolute hell on your (my) driveway. But anyway, listen, Will Smith cant carry this movie on his back. There isnt a surgeon on earth that could repair his vertebrae after such a feat. The racism, sexism, and discrimination against the handicapped is too ridiculous and over the top to work. Big difference between a period piece and a drunken re-enactment of the Civil War era at the local Confederate sympathizer meeting. I will admit, a breath of fresh ass and a breast of fresh air got chuckles out of me. And some of the action scenes were kinda cool. But likeit sucks overall. Hard.
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Bear Bro
The Empire of Silence

VengefulKaelee posted...

Rad!

Also holy shit at the tie for first place. Has that happened before?

Not that I recall. I think this is the first time. I was pretty shocked at the total. I even counted it like 5 times to make sure lol
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Bear Bro
The Empire of Silence

A fun little bit of trivia to get everyone started:

30 points (wins tiebreaker by dropping lowest score of each)
30 points
40 points
53 points
63 points
64 points
71 points
79 points
87 points (wins tiebreaker by dropping lowest score of each)
87 points
98 points (wins tiebreaker by dropping lowest score of each)
98 points
104 points
113 points
118 points
121 points (wins tiebreaker by dropping lowest score of each)
121 points
122 points
123 points
129 points
131 points
137 points
142 points
143 points
147 points
152 points
158 points
159 points
164 points
171 points

These are the point totals of each movie from the winner at the top to last place at the bottom. The less points, the better, because having a bunch of top ten finishes will add up to less than having a bunch of finishes in the 20s.

The herd of cattle in the room you will see is obviously the tie for first place. Crazy right? There were actually multiple ties as I went along. To break the ties, I dropped the lowest score of each film involved in the tie and recalculated. Just something to think about as we go along.

So yeah, hype it up and speculate! What will win? What will the last place film be? The first film will drop tomorrow night. Please enjoy.
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Bear Bro
The Empire of Silence

Howdy, folks! Previously on this lovely ranking series, Inviso hosted a successful MCU topic. Next up, we're gonna head west for some cowboy shit. A group of Board 8ers watched 30 westerns and ranked them from their favorite in 1st to their least favorite in 30th. They also did writeups of their thoughts on each of the films in question. I then calculated the results and now here we are.

Now your gut reaction might be that Westerns are all one-note, shoot the natives, white dudes in hats kinds of movies. In some cases thats definitely true. However! Westerns can also bend genres and show surprising versatility. Strong female leads? Strong black leads? Strong Hispanic leads? Lotsa spaghetti? Comedy? Kung fu? Horror? Outer space? Whatever the fuck Wild Wild West is aiming for? Weve got that shit in spades, partner.

Bear in mind, I made two lists. This is Westerns 1. Westerns 2 will be done in the future. Chances are, the movies you will be asking Stifled you moron, where is ____ are on that list.

In this topic, you will get rankings, fun facts, perhaps a bit of history, and then some hard hitting opinions from us. I am your host, StifledSilence, and I hope you will enjoy the ride.

These are the rankers:

CoolCly
Inviso
Johnbobb
Karo
KBM
Pokewars
Stifled

These are the movies:

Stagecoach (1939)
My Darling Clementine (1946)
The Treasure of the Sierra Madre (1948)
High Noon (1952)
Shane (1953)
The Searchers (1956)
The Magnificent Seven (1960)
McLintock! (1963)
A Fistful of Dollars (1964)
Cat Ballou (1965)
For a Few Dollars More (1965)
Django (1966)
The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly (1966)
The Great Silence (1968)
True Grit (1969)
Two Mules For Sister Sara (1970)
Blazing Saddles (1974)
Young Guns (1988)
El Mariachi (1992)
Tombstone (1993)
Desperado (1995)
Wild Wild West (1999)
Shanghai Noon (2000)
Once Upon a Time in Mexico (2003)
3:10 to Yuma (2007)
True Grit (2010)
Django Unchained (2012)
Bone Tomahawk (2015)
The Hateful Eight (2015)
Prospect (2018)
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Bear Bro
The Empire of Silence

Alright, pilgrims. Time's up. Big thanks to everyone who submitted. Topic will be going up within the next hour. First film will drop tomorrow night.
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Bear Bro
The Empire of Silence

CoolCly posted...

Submitted!

Yee haw! Got it.
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Bear Bro
The Empire of Silence

About an hour to go.
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Bear Bro
The Empire of Silence

I have:

Karo
Inviso
Johnbobb
KBM
Poke

Still around 4 hours left if anyone else wants to submit. I'll be up for awhile setting things up for tomorrow. If anyone has any questions or concerns, feel free to let me know.
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Bear Bro
The Empire of Silence

Helga
Toph
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Bear Bro
The Empire of Silence

Yee haw!
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Bear Bro
The Empire of Silence

red xiiii
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Bear Bro
The Empire of Silence