Lurker > LinkMarioSamus

These four franchises all strike me as having similar appeal (in subject matter at least), and have had similar trajectories in the 2010s. To think Metroid is probably the runaway winner...

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Why do people act like the left is the party of social justice crusaders?

If you hold Mass Effect 2 and Mario Galaxy 2 constant from 2015 to 2020 and assume Majora's Mask's eightpack is VERY slightly overrated in the official 2015 x-stats, Bloodborne gets 57% on its 2015 self. So basically it got the same caliber boost as Dark Souls.

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Why do people act like the left is the party of social justice crusaders?

Seeing Gall rank New Vegas and ME2 as bad saddens me even if it's fairly understandable. I have lots of attachment to both games just off of watching LPs of them!

Speaking of 2010 games, there's a rant I wanted to go on regarding Metroid: Other M. Although I don't bother defending the game anymore after watching ProtonJon stream through the whole thing last year - the story's an even bigger mess than I remembered! Suffice to say I do NOT think I would like the game if I revisited it.

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Why do people act like the left is the party of social justice crusaders?

Now to see if anything stupid happens at Biden's inauguration.

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Why do people act like the left is the party of social justice crusaders?

Apparently Obama was a senator for only four years before he got elected President?!

The way I see it, the 2016 election was a battle of egos, and Trump's was bigger so he won. But the reason there was so much third-party support in 2016 is that people don't like egos, so in 2020 when Trump ran against a non-ego candidate he lost.

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Why do people act like the left is the party of social justice crusaders?

So at this point, either Trump genuinely lost the election or there's a MASSIVE conspiracy on part of both the government AND the press to discredit him, at which point he probably pissed off enough people that he lost the election anyway.

Appalling people act like Biden not drawing huge crowds like Trump or Obama is somehow an indication Biden could not have possibly gotten so many votes. People can support a candidate without being part of a cult!

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Why do people act like the left is the party of social justice crusaders?

Labelling Hillary Clinton corrupt was way more accurate than labelling Joe Biden a Communist or pedophile.

Honestly the more I see of Joe Biden the better I think of him. Might just be relief at the idea that the US will have a President who actually looks and acts like a President soon!

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Why do people act like the left is the party of social justice crusaders?

The negative press Hillary Clinton got was FAR more warranted than what Biden gets. And it wasn't warranted to begin with.

Trump and his base are just getting crazier by the minute.

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Why do people act like the left is the party of social justice crusaders?

He sure did! And remember this is the same guy who tried to order a plane that only exists in a Call of Duty game.

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Why do people act like the left is the party of social justice crusaders?

That's why I specified "a lot". Obviously there are exceptions, though for now they seem to be primarily strategy games and RPGs.

I unironically think Heavy Rain has a good plot based on watching multiple Let's Plays of it, but boy howdy I'd be lying if I said I didn't get the criticisms of the game. Oh boy would I be. Honestly it's probably more of a psychological experiment than a game.

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Why do people act like the left is the party of social justice crusaders?

Why does it seem like you're just not into a lot of AAA Western games? Not that I am or anything, but still!

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Why do people act like the left is the party of social justice crusaders?

That plus all previous superheroine movies being very poorly-received and that just being a weak summer for films.

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Why do people act like the left is the party of social justice crusaders?

Yeah if you hold Galaxy 2 constant between 2015 and 2020, MGSV actually went UP a tiny bit.

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Why do people act like the left is the party of social justice crusaders?

And the right complain about CNN brainwashing Democrats when their news networks are at least as bad if not even worse.

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Why do people act like the left is the party of social justice crusaders?

Leonhart4 posted...

Also, I'm not sure Crono would beat Sonic or Sephiroth by that much. He only got 54% on Bowser, and I'd be reluctant to take Bowser over either one of those guys. So I don't know that he's really changed all that much.

So you think Snake is still worth ~55% on Crono and Mega Man, even after Samus demolished him?

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Why do people act like the left is the party of social justice crusaders?

The GOTD1 stats are completely raw and unadjusted, which works amazingly well in most circumstances. The only things that looked particularly off to me were Fallout 3's quarter of the bracket, Shadow of the Colossus's eightpack, and Mario Kart DS. Even Wind Waker didn't seem like it was SFFd that badly by Majora's Mask given it still outperformed MGS3. Also IIRC Dragon Quest VIII/P3 went basically the way it was projected to go despite P3 being the board favorite on a presumption that Majora's Mask caught bandwagons later in the contest.

To think that of our all-inclusive games contests the 2015 x-stats are probably the most reliable even after how much the contest got "messed up" by off-site intervention. Then again this is what happens when the 2004 bracket was so SFF-ridden and the 2009 bracket was, well, lol 4-ways.

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Why do people act like the left is the party of social justice crusaders?

I don't remember if I said this in the other topic but the way Trump and his base act, you'd think they want a Trump dictatorship in all but name with the way they continue to insist the election was rigged despite all evidence to the contrary.

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Why do people act like the left is the party of social justice crusaders?

From what I've heard this is basically a high-gloss superhero movie from the '80s or '90s. You'd think we're past this nonsense by now.

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Why do people act like the left is the party of social justice crusaders?

With my stats, I suppose it was just kind of a personal experiment of mine. But I still wanted to bring it in for discussion!

FFX and RE4 both looked pretty lackluster in 2015 so it makes sense that Tidus and Leon declined anyway.

I don't think FFX/FFIX in the first GOTD was an SFF match. It didn't seem to skew the stats in any noticeable way, for instance Mass Effect and KOTOR are still equal even though KOTOR was supposedly stuck under FFX/FFIX SFF.

Last character battle had Crono beating Mega Man and putting decent numbers on Smash-boosted Cloud. That's a far cry from his choke-fests in prior contests, although by this point losing to a first-time lethal joke character and getting leeched to death against Pikachu don't look so bad. And honestly Chrono Trigger probably would have beaten FFX and Melee straight up in 2009 or 2010 too unless you think Majora's Mask and Brawl would have given Mario 64 a scare back then.

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Why do people act like the left is the party of social justice crusaders?

Well I guess I have no idea what statmaking really comprises, especially since a fair amount of the adjustments made to the official 2015 x-stats seem pretty arbitrary.

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Why do people act like the left is the party of social justice crusaders?

Yes I took into account that Vivi is much stronger in 2018. He still lost to a Ganondorf that failed to break 60% on Chun-Li and got destroyed by Mega Man.

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Why do people act like the left is the party of social justice crusaders?

Corrik7 posted...

What is your weight distribution? How many riots buildings being burned, people dying, assaults, properties damaged, stores looted, etc would you think equals a riot at the capitol? I mean, I don't know... But I do know that crime is crime. Death is death. Vandalism is vandalism. I don't know how to even begin to decide what the line or weight distribution is there's. It's beyond my mind personally. But, I know I denounce it all and wish we didn't have a society that does this shit ever.

There's a big difference between a direct attack on government and extremist attacks on random public property. Not to mention the motivation behind the Capitol riots was miles more insidious.

A LOT more of the things you'd mention would have to happen to be given the same weight as a Capitol riot. Why do Americans have so little respect for their own government despite their country being the world's greatest superpower? Makes no sense.

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Why do people act like the left is the party of social justice crusaders?

Leonhart4 posted...

Also I can't believe this still needs to be said but characters =/= games

DK was just a beast in 2018, and Crash was surprisingly really good that year. Their games will still be mediocre in a contest.

DK was such a beast he barely did better against Vivi than he did in previous contests. Plus, again, the rest of the FFX cast didn't exactly rock the world in 2018 except maybe Auron, and even he did worse against Sub-Zero than he did in 2006 and worse against Snake than he was directly projected to do in 2010 even though no one will argue Snake has weakened since then. FFX has just declined, plain and simple. Amazing how Leon is getting so defensive over FFVIII and FFX too, considering. I adjusted my two favorite games of all time DOWN in the stats - including Wind Waker even further to the point it's no longer ahead of Melee (though Twilight Princess still is) because FFVI's eightpack still looked too high on further inspection.

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Why do people act like the left is the party of social justice crusaders?

BLM rioters destroying public property isn't magically any more acceptable than pro-Trump people storming the Capitol, but how can you even view both with the same weight otherwise without implying disrespect for the US government?

And that's precisely what it is. Trump has brainwashed his supporters into thinking the US government is corrupt to the core and that the only way Trump can lose elections is because of that. His base wants a Trump dictatorship in all but name.

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Why do people act like the left is the party of social justice crusaders?

Oh no some extremists were being dummies stop the presses.

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Why do people act like the left is the party of social justice crusaders?

It's obvious that a good portion of Republicans not only don't know who Biden is, but they don't care to know who he is either, the way they go around labelling him a communist and a pedophile. Yet they complain that the media doesn't represent Trump correctly?

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Why do people act like the left is the party of social justice crusaders?

Exactly.

Actually now they're pulling the "Democrats act like them not winning is fraudulent but them winning isn't"...completely ignoring that's precisely what they're doing now.

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Why do people act like the left is the party of social justice crusaders?

htaeD posted...

There was no evidence, they just said there was.
But anyone bothering to look at the court hearings will see that Guliani and the likes could not present anything concrete and thats why they were laughed out of court.
Not because the courts refused to listen to heaping mountains of fraud proof.

Exactly what I figured.

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Why do people act like the left is the party of social justice crusaders?

Leonhart4 posted...

The logic was the results. I know that can be tough to understand, but just look at CT/FFX and OoT/FFIX. Unless you're calling for SFF in CT/FFX (unlikely based on the pre-rally numbers against Melee) or FFIX > FFX (unlikely just based on the entirety of contest history), CT was in the ballpark of OoT in 2015 and just looked better.

"There's no way that would happen" isn't a logical basis for an adjustment. The numbers say what they say. It doesn't mean you have to believe CT would actually win (although the "rallies always make contests better" crowd loves to assume CT would've had no chance to justify ruining that contest). It's just what the available data suggests.

I don't call for SFF in CT/FFX. If anything I think CT and FFX are both being over-valued. Tidus crapping the bed and Auron doing worse against Snake in 2018 than he was directly projected to do in 2010 point to an FFX decline. So CT's only three wins in 2015 were over two pieces of fodder and a game whose main character got killed by Donkey Kong, and I'm supposed to believe it's the #1 game so easily? No thank you. And I still have CT as #1 in the x-stats, just with 51% on OOT instead of 54%. Yeah OOT didn't look so great struggling to triple Suikoden II, but that doesn't look that bad because Suikoden II is precisely the kind of game this site goes gaga over. And even with the adjustments FFIX just barely breaks 49% on FFX.

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Why do people act like the left is the party of social justice crusaders?

BTW the courts actually did laugh off the lawsuits instead of simply refusing to hear the evidence, right?

Dunno why those people are still making me second-guess the election results when their conspiracies don't hold up at all under scrutiny. They're acting like America is a banana republic just because Biden won the election, which is nothing short of appalling.

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Why do people act like the left is the party of social justice crusaders?

What do you mean by that? Anyway I admit I basically just took the official stats and tweaked them a bit. Like I said, major props to those who made the initial adjustments that the stats don't look completely ridiculous. With FFVIII I basically kept its % on Chrono Trigger equal to the official stats, with this resulting in an overall decrease since I adjusted CT to 51% on OOT instead of 54%.

Seriously though, what on earth was the logic of giving CT such a high number on OOT?

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Why do people act like the left is the party of social justice crusaders?

Well they're my adjustments!

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Why do people act like the left is the party of social justice crusaders?

I had adjusted FFVIII down well beforehand because it didn't look right for Vice City to be that high.

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Why do people act like the left is the party of social justice crusaders?

He based his election strategy on trying to pull a wounded gazelle gambit against BLM and Antifa rioters.

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Why do people act like the left is the party of social justice crusaders?

Re-adjusted 2015 x-stats:

1) Chrono Trigger 48.93
2) The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time 47.95
3) Final Fantasy VII 44.59
4) Pokmon Red & Blue 43.26
5) The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past 42.68
6) Super Mario World 42.4
7) Super Mario Bros. 3 42.32
8) Super Mario 64 41.96
9) Final Fantasy VI 39.08
10) The Legend of Zelda: Majoras Mask 37.04
11) Super Metroid 36.65
12) The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess 36.22
13) The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker 36.15
14) Super Smash Bros. Melee 35.93
15) The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim 34.93
16) Final Fantasy X 33.74
17) Final Fantasy IX 33.12
18) Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars 33.11
19) Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater 32.49
20) Metal Gear Solid 32.49
21) Kingdom Hearts 32.4
22) Kingdom Hearts II 32.12
23) Pokmon Gold & Silver 31.61
24) Metroid Prime 31.52
25) Castlevania: Symphony of the Night 31.48
26) Resident Evil 4 31.14
27) Super Smash Bros. for Wii U 30.96
28) The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion 30.18
29) Shadow of the Colossus 30.17
30) Mega Man X 30.04
31) Fallout 3 29.97
32) Super Mario Galaxy 29.62
33) Final Fantasy IV 29.49
34) Final Fantasy VIII 28.65
35) Final Fantasy Tactics 28.34
36) Grand Theft Auto V 28.34
37) Metal Gear Solid 2: Sons of Liberty 28.25
38) GoldenEye (1997) 28.2
39) Mass Effect 27.93
40) Okami 27.92
41) Super Mario Galaxy 2 27.47
42) Tetris 27.39
43) Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic 26.57
44) Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots 26.52
45) Half-Life 2 26.41
46) Sonic the Hedgehog 2 26.3
47) Fallout: New Vegas 26.09
48) Chrono Cross - 26
49) BioShock 25.89
50) The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt 25.88
51) Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door 25.84
52) Paper Mario 64 25.81
53) EarthBound 25.77
54) The Last of Us 25.68
55) Mass Effect 2 25.58
56) Diablo II 25.56
57) Persona 4 25.16
58) Dark Souls I 25.11
59) StarCraft I 25.01
60) Tales of Symphonia 24.88
61) Banjo-Kazooie 24.8
62) Xenogears 24.63
63) Red Dead Redemption 24.6
64) Portal 2 24.5
65) Resident Evil 24.45
66) Grand Theft Auto: Vice City 24.07
67) Half-Life 24.02
68) Resident Evil 2 23.93
69) Donkey Kong Country 2: Diddys Kong Quest 23.9
70) Xenoblade 23.73
71) Batman: Arkham City 23.63
72) Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas 23.49
73) Mass Effect 3 23.44
74) Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney 23.32
75) The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind 23.27
76) Portal 23.2
77) Final Fantasy XII 23.05
78) BioShock Infinite 22.99
79) Fire Emblem: Awakening 22.89
80) Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain 22.4
81) Suikoden II 22.16
82) Warcraft III: Reign of Chaos 22.01
83) World of Warcraft 21.81
84) Shenmue 21.35
85) Borderlands 2 21.33
86) Dragon Age: Origins 21.31
87) Bloodborne 20.44
88) Perfect Dark 20.31
89) Skies of Arcadia 20.04
90) Uncharted 2: Among Thieves 19.99
91) Silent Hill 2 19.97
92) Mother 3 19.82
93) Pokmon X & Y 19.81
94) Halo: Combat Evolved 19.43
95) Monster Hunter 4 Ultimate 19.09
96) Demons Souls 19.07
97) Baldurs Gate II: Shadows of Amn 18.69
98) Shovel Knight 18.19
99) Assassins Creed II 17.95
100) Valkyria Chronicles 17.86
101) Deus Ex 17.83
102) Bayonetta 2 17.72
103) Dragon Quest VIII: Journey of the Cursed King 17.69
104) Minecraft 16.82
105) Mario Kart 8 16.75
106) Civilization V 16.72
107) Halo 3 16.69
108) Team Fortress 2 16.48
109) Undertale 16.32
110) Super Mario Maker 16.3
111) Persona 3 16.02
112) Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney: Trials & Tribulations 15.74
113) Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare 15.06
114) The World Ends with You 14.77
115) Journey 14.21
116) Ratchet & Clank: Up Your Arsenal 13.85
117) Splatoon 13.6
118) Animal Crossing: New Leaf 13.57
119) Age of Empires II: The Age of Kings 13.41
120) The Binding of Isaac: Rebirth 13.37
121) The Walking Dead 13.24
122) Planescape: Torment 12.97
123) Destiny 12.76
124) Life is Strange 11.38
125) 999: Nine Hours, Nine Persons, Nine Doors 11.17
126) Zero Escape: Virtues Last Reward 10.7
127) Cave Story 10.23
128) Hearthstone: Heroes of Warcraft 8.6

Newest change I made was to adjust Majora's Mask's eightpack down very slightly, which had the side effect of, for one thing, pulling Mario Galaxy down a little.

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Why do people act like the left is the party of social justice crusaders?

Trump is basically Palpatine minus the evil laughs.

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Why do people act like the left is the party of social justice crusaders?

Thinking of returning to Civ5 sometime to elaborate my thoughts on the game more. To me though other than the social policy system and MAYBE the combat, it's a step back from 4 in every way.

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Why do people act like the left is the party of social justice crusaders?

Nominate Magna Centipede (Mega Man X2)

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Why do people act like the left is the party of social justice crusaders?

The whole thing with franchise hierarchy, my argument was not that a game in one series is incapable of beating a game in another series, just that, I dunno, if two games are close than the higher series hierarchy should win? Also it was just a function of my adjusted stats since Chrono Trigger's division jumped out at me as being more blatantly overrated than FFVI's eightpack.

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Why do people act like the left is the party of social justice crusaders?

Nominate:

Vicki Vale (DC Comics)
Holli Would (Cool World)

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Why do people act like the left is the party of social justice crusaders?

Watch out Graham, a POIsonous snake!

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Why do people act like the left is the party of social justice crusaders?

MetalmindStats posted...

Yes, please.

Also LMS, I think you fundamentally misinterpreted my argument. I'm well aware that Zelda generally beats Smash even on an intra-console basis in the hierarchy here, and as my original WW/Melee post should have indicated, I'd also agree that WW is indirectly even at worst. The problem with extrapolating that to a direct match, though, is that Melee is the GameCube game, and WW just isn't that. As others have pointed out, Melee has thumped WW in every poll the two have shared, and Brawl even beat TP 1-on-1 against the will of the entire Melee fanbase for basically the same reason. Even if those are all very old indicators by this point, I'd tend to trust them more than a simple 2015 stat comparison for determining the winner of a Melee/WW match.

I don't like the argument of Melee being the GameCube game but I at least get it. Then again it WAS the system's top-selling title.

Maybe I should adjust FFVI down even more? Though otherwise you have Paper Mario 1 beating 2.

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Why do people act like the left is the party of social justice crusaders?

AxemRedRanger posted...

Also, Wind Waker in 2015's x-stat value runs through FFVI, which we assume got SFFed by FFVII. However FFVI's value was assigned it probably isn't worth taking that seriously even by x-stats standards. There's a bonus poll you could use to try to adjust but IIRC even that had some notable offsite influence.

Not sure why franchise hierarchies are being taken so seriously after Super Metroid almost beat Majora's Mask.

For what it's worth in my stats I did adjust FFVI down a tiny bit, but I adjusted Chrono Trigger down even more (51% on Ocarina instead of 54%), which pulled Melee down slightly below WW. Though the difference is pretty arbitrary as the two games are next to each other anyway (and in the top 15 to boot), so from that perspective it's very much a tossup at worst. And yeah Melee has rallies too.

Yes clearly I have no idea how hierarchies work lol.

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Why do people act like the left is the party of social justice crusaders?

Although on a side note, the fact Ultimate failed to double a handheld Zelda that failed to leave much lasting impact if anything reinforces the Zelda > Smash hierarchy.

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Why do people act like the left is the party of social justice crusaders?

Now I realize how much of this board I have disrespected by dismissing decade-old stats just because, when that's the whole point. Time to scram I guess.

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Why do people act like the left is the party of social justice crusaders?

Leonhart4 posted...

Friendly reminder that Wind Waker was very close to Melee in 2004, too. It isn't winning a 1-on-1 match.

First off, I wasn't here. Second off, StarCraft completely messed up that division.

To think 2015 might have been our most "legit" all-inclusive games contest even with all the rallies...

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Why do people act like the left is the party of social justice crusaders?

ctesjbuvf posted...

Ignoring that we probably change our opinions very little here, the decade old matches just show that it's possible for both sides to SFF each other, shown clearly by Melee SFF killing Wind Waker twice before being SFF killed by Ocarina of Time two rounds later.

Melee doesn't have to be much stronger than Ultimate and WW much weaker than BotW because of the SFF you mention yourself. BotW also SFF killed the stronger Majora's Mask making everything in GotD1 look like a joke at face value. SFF is absolutely cruesome in some of these Nintendo matches, and you're using a select few of them to argue that the blowout that was Melee > Wind Waker should have somehow completely changed here.

I also think Ultimate would have looked a little bit better in a contest not titled Game of the Decade though it'd still be crushed badly, but this is besides the point.

Yeah I realized the middle point soon after I posted, plus Melee might have increased in strength again since 2015. I think I'd still pull the trigger on the upset but I shouldn't argue for it so hard.

Still don't put much stock in 2009, since not only was that contest forever ago but also lol 4-ways. That was the contest where Brawl destroyed MGS4 one round and then lost to it the minute Twilight Princess showed up, plus Metroid Prime performing much worse than it has since.

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Why do people act like the left is the party of social justice crusaders?

My argument was that Smash being higher than Zelda in the hierarchy is laughable if BOTW can SFF Ultimate so hard. I can't see WW being that much weaker than BOTW and Melee being that much stronger than Ultimate. And yeah I'm not putting much stock into matches that happened more than a decade ago.

When I said this site is over Smash, I tempered it by saying KIND OF. It's not as big a deal as it was when Brawl came out but obviously this site still loves it some Smash. Then again yeah I completely forgot about the LBW match, it just doesn't stick out as blatantly SFF as Ultimate faced against BOTW.

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Why do people act like the left is the party of social justice crusaders?

MetalmindStats posted...

To be fair, I get why the pick is being discussed in the absence of rallies - 47% on FF6 is a rather beastly result, and certainly better than anything unrallied Melee has ever done. That being said, I have no doubt that Melee would exert its hierarchy to win even a rally-free 1v1 match.

Smash being higher in hierarchy than Zelda is laughable after this past contest.

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Why do people act like the left is the party of social justice crusaders?

Advokaiser posted...

The only thing I disagree with is Melee not being strong anymore without rallies. The game has stayed surprisingly relevant and respected throughout the years. I don't see Melee weakening at all since its very first contest appearance. It seems to be one of those select games whose staying power will remain the same throughout the decades.

Melee easily beats Wind Waker.

SSB Melee (2015g) has a strength of 38.28 against Base Link.
Wind Waker (2015g) has a strength of 37.54 against Base Link.

SSB Melee50.97%<img src="http://thengamer.com/xstats/bar.jpg">31,026Wind Waker49.03%<img src="http://thengamer.com/xstats/bar.jpg">29,849TOTAL VOTES60,875SSB Melee wins with 50.97% of the vote!
A 1,177 vote margin of victory.

It's already close in the official stats, and this is with Melee being behind Chrono Trigger (I did adjust FFVI down a little in the stats too, but not as much as CT). Thing is, Breath of the Wild destroyed Ultimate so easily I have a hard time seeing Melee being much stronger than Ultimate and Wind Waker being much weaker than BOTW. I think this site might kind of be over Smash. That said Melee is still easily a top 20 game, this says more about the site's love of Zelda than anything else, and it probably beats everything else in the GOTD2 bracket unless you think Ultimate is substantially stronger than The Witcher 3.

Also thanks Advokaiser for complimenting my statwork!

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Why do people act like the left is the party of social justice crusaders?