Lurker > Lightning Strikes

The indies being here is great since the vast majority are very high quality.

However, X&Y were obviously severely SFFd. We have never actually seen what later Pokmon can do because they keep bumping into higher tier Nintendo. RSE beat GTAIV in its heyday and thats it. I would rather see Black & White or X&Y here than HGSS, and it wouldnt shock me if the results were similar (part new Pokmon not getting good chances, part the fraudulent nature of GSC).

---

I just decided to change this sig.
Blaaaaaaargh Advokaiser

Itd be s little stronger but it definitely wouldnt make Samus Returns beat Xenobladd 2 or MK8 or New Horizons.

But hey, there are heavy rumours of a new 2D Metroid game coming so we may find out soon!

---

I just decided to change this sig.
Blaaaaaaargh Advokaiser

It wasnt a remake. Nintendo were pretty clear to not call it a remake (they said reimagining, and they were right), and they are very different games. As for the handheld thing - if the same game had launched on Switch at 1080p, would it be that much stronger?

---

I just decided to change this sig.
Blaaaaaaargh Advokaiser

hylianknight3 posted...

LMAO

Best one yet.

---

I just decided to change this sig.
Blaaaaaaargh Advokaiser

Metroid should be much lower than all of those. Nintendo actually put out well received games for most of these in 2017 - Zelda, Mario, Metroid, Xenoblade, Mario Kart (not new but may as well have been). In fact, all of these have recent games, and accounting for good reception Id say:

Zelda
Smash
Mario
Pokmon
Xenoblade
(Animal Crossing)
Fire Emblem
Mario Kart
Metroid

I just cant see Metroid anywhere other than the bottom for new games, Im sorry. Now Metroid Prime will be a different story, but until Prime 4 comes out any Metroid game Nintendo releases will not be worth as much as Nintendos other games. The series has gone from one of Nintendos biggest to one of their smallest.

...until Metroid Prime 4!

---

I just decided to change this sig.
Blaaaaaaargh Advokaiser

I didnt know about the FFXV rally, huh.

Now, even without taking that into account, FFXV would have to be at best #2 for 2016 behind Doom, but more likely #3 also behind Uncharted 4 right?

To add to azuarcs point, the Switch has really revived local multiplayer just by allowing you to play with one joycon each. I have played do many more games with friends and family just because of that.

3D World actually did outsell (and outreview) SSB4Wii U, so we shouldnt discount the success of the 3DS version for that one.

Also DKCTF looks that bad because Odyssey got SFFd.

---

I just decided to change this sig.
Blaaaaaaargh Advokaiser

Odyssey probably isnt far off.

Shame well never know for sure! For now anyway.

Stooge1969 posted...

The Galaxy games are overrated as fuck in these contests. All hype and they never deliver

The only time a Galaxy game has ever truly underwhelmed was 2 in 2015. The rest have done well until they run into SFF, and gone out where expected.

Though I dont think TP gets 63% on Galaxy any more regardless.

---

I just decided to change this sig.
Blaaaaaaargh Advokaiser

I always believed in the Galaxy games. Especially since we are out of the low period of Nintendo we were in during the last games contest.

---

I just decided to change this sig.
Blaaaaaaargh Advokaiser

Thats fair, though I guess there is the question of where the line should be drawn. Like if its a short delay thats a Switch game (I was going to say MK11 but it turns out that was Europe only). But then there is something like Doom which is more ambiguous as its s year and a half - much shorter than the likes of Witcher or Skyrim but still large.

---

I just decided to change this sig.
Blaaaaaaargh Advokaiser

This actually got me thinking about which Nintendo console other than the SNES has the strongest top ten. It would have to be the Switch right? Especially if were factoring in ports because then it gets Witcher 3, Skyrim, and Dark Souls among others.

It makes me wonder if the Switch could one day pass the SNES even on here. Incredible system.

---

I just decided to change this sig.
Blaaaaaaargh Advokaiser

I dont know if its a top 10 Gamecube game here! Lets check right now:

Melee
Metroid Prime
Twilight Princess
Wind Waker
Resident Evil 4
Thousand Year Door
(Maybe) Animal Crossing
(Maybe depending on this rumoured HD collection) Super Mario Sunshine

The only other one I can think of is Path of Radiance (no way is that GotD1 stat legit) but I dont think so.

So Tales of Symphonia is the six to tenth strongest Gamecube game!

---

I just decided to change this sig.
Blaaaaaaargh Advokaiser

If theyre the bane of your disappointment, that means they arent disappointing you.

---

I just decided to change this sig.
Blaaaaaaargh Advokaiser

Not until the end of the month perhaps!

However if I can make the case for Xenoblade a bit here, it is easily seen as one of the best games of that generation and an all-time classic for the genre, the issue is one of mainstream knowledge. There Xenoblade has two advantages. The first is that it spearheaded a massive movement to get it released in the states (easily one of the biggest ever). The second is that that franchise saw exponential growth the second it got a proper release on a platform people were still playing. Xenoblade Chronicles 2 was a legit mainstream success. The truth is Nintendo (especially NoA) didnt realise what they had with Xenoblade, now they are actually giving it a chance its fast becoming a major franchise. It only took them most of a decade!

So it doesnt make top 8 elsewhere but it may be closer than you think. It also benefitted from generous bracket placement here too. If it was just the 8 strongest games SMO would be there for sure.

---

I just decided to change this sig.
Blaaaaaaargh Advokaiser

shane15 posted...

Xenoblade isn't a titan get the hell out of here

https://www.metacritic.com/game/wii/xenoblade-chronicles

Its also all over the place on best RPG ever snd of the decade lists, its absolutely one of the top JRPGs ever in terms of acclaim.

---

I just decided to change this sig.
Blaaaaaaargh Advokaiser

Agreed Zen, though Xenoblade does curry huge respect of course even if its not as mainstream.

However, I dont think any of this decades CoD games would be in consideration. Black Ops is the only one people near-unanimously like. And thats the only one that made it!

If I were to say something instead of GTA it would be Minecraft as that has both the huge popularity and the critical respect that say Fortnite lacks.

---

I just decided to change this sig.
Blaaaaaaargh Advokaiser

Also can we talk about how good this top 8 is:

Breath of the Wild
Mass Effect 2
Super Smash Bros. Ultimate
Xenoblade Chronicles
The Witcher 3
Persona 5
Dark Souls
Skyrim

Those are all titans of the medium.

---

I just decided to change this sig.
Blaaaaaaargh Advokaiser

MechanicalWall posted...

I don't know that if at this point, people were hoping Witcher was gonna bust P5's balls and put some ridiculous number up on it, but I think this is actually a very good performance, and one that makes it a pretty definitive #2 in the bracket, above Smash and Mario.

Thankfully both Persona games went up against an RDR game (at least by proxy). P4 barely scrapes by; P5 beats Portal 2 with more than 7%. If P4 and RDR1 mostly equal XBC, which puts up 41% on Smash despite potential SFF, then it's reasonable to expect that Persona 5 might actually be VERY close to Smash (and if there WAS SFF in that match, which we all expected, then P5 probably beats Smash outright).

Point being, P5 didn't get to look good until Division finals because it's half of the division was a massive joke. Its Portal match showed that in relation to everything but Zelda, it's actually VERY strong, and Witcher is casually breaking 55% on it.

I wouldnt say P4G is naturally that close to Xenoblade. Without the pinned rally, but with all the other rallies, Xenoblade would have been closer to 51%. P4G cut an extra 100 votes compared to its previous matches against slightly weaker games. Without any rallies? Who knows, well never actually know P4Gs true strength because there were loads of rallies firing all day. But that pinned rally alone unquestionably bigged it up.

The surprise there is that Xenoblade probably beats P4G with anonymous users.

---

I just decided to change this sig.
Blaaaaaaargh Advokaiser

On the subject of stars of the contest, while Dark Souls has had perhaps the largest boost, nobody expected Xenoblade to be right up there with it and The Witcher in terms of strength increases. So thats why its locked in as the star unless something crazy happens.

Heres a question: what are some bandwagoned entries that kept some of that strength? MM and Vivi spring to mind.

---

I just decided to change this sig.
Blaaaaaaargh Advokaiser

WarThaNemesis2 posted...

Mega Man X got almost 45% on FFX.

How many games in this contest do you take over FFX?

4-6. Enough for the rest of the top ten to slot in that 5%. Honestly all this talk is just highlighting that the upper reaches here are actually pretty good haha.

Also Xenoblade is not the only Nintendo game confirmed for the rest of the year.

---

I just decided to change this sig.
Blaaaaaaargh Advokaiser

transience posted...

I hope you're right about DKC2. I dislike those games!

I feel like you could dump dozens of random 90s games that would rock this contest. Sonic 2, Mega Man X, Tetris, Oracle of Ages, Xenogears, etc. RE2 is one such example and it almost won its division.

The only one of those that might breach the top ten is Mega Man X, which looked not THAT much stronger than pre-leak TLoU. And MMX is the seventh strongest SNES game no? And Oracle of Ages? Come on.

Also 2019 RE2>1998 RE2, and that game still lost to possibly the weakest division winner.

---

I just decided to change this sig.
Blaaaaaaargh Advokaiser

But I dont think DKC2 is that game. It lost badly to SotN. It loses to TLoU (pre-leak anyway), Dark Souls, God of War, and its not close.

---

I just decided to change this sig.
Blaaaaaaargh Advokaiser

PRAISE

GERALDO

Also this decade clearly has some big dogs. Also I feel that when you break it down by generation for the fourth and on the distribution of big boy games starts looking pretty even. Generations got a lot longer in the past 15 years after all.

---

I just decided to change this sig.
Blaaaaaaargh Advokaiser

Fus Ro Dah indeed.

transience posted...

Xenoblade being strong is good and all, but it's only relative strength. DKC2 would also be close to a top 10 game in this contest.

I actually think it wouldnt, the top flight of this contest has proved itself.

---

I just decided to change this sig.
Blaaaaaaargh Advokaiser

Whoa Skyrim

Really impressive update for Witcher too.

---

I just decided to change this sig.
Blaaaaaaargh Advokaiser

There was a Samus one too.

...how many action figure pics have there been?

Also this reminds me of Allen accidentally putting up a Matthew pic for Isaac, and having a look there was also Ventus instead of Roxas. Both of those got corrected. And before Allen came on there was the infamous CJ pic.

---

I just decided to change this sig.
Blaaaaaaargh Advokaiser

Honestly I never had a problem with the action figure - it is official art after all! But my favourite was live action Scorpion that one time.

---

I just decided to change this sig.
Blaaaaaaargh Advokaiser

A bit late to this, but I still havent forgotten when Allen allowed a TTYD pic for Paper Mario in GotD1. I believe it even got pointed out before it was submitted but there it was.

---

I just decided to change this sig.
Blaaaaaaargh Advokaiser

I agree with what LtM says about VI. It gets away with a lot just by virtue of being in the OT. It is not that far above the prequels, and definitely worse than III. IIIs problem at the end of the day comes down to a handful of silly lines and one or two bad performances. VI is a movie that is structurally fundamentally flawed.

Anyway, V>VIII>IV>VII>III>VI>II>IX>I

OT>ST>PT

IX is in some ways my least favourite but it is competently made enough to save it from being last.

---

I just decided to change this sig.
Blaaaaaaargh Advokaiser

Xenoblade absolutely holds up better to SFF, but I dont know if it holds up 5% better.

What happens if Bayonetta=DMC5?

---

I just decided to change this sig.
Blaaaaaaargh Advokaiser

To get a bit into why Xenoblade and P4G arent necessarily right next to each other, we can look at the way P4G behaved in the last two hours. Once the rally was pinned it shaved over 150 votes off in 75 minutes after hours of relative static. If that pin had never happened, the result would have been more like 50.5 than 50.2, which is a good 1% for other games to slot in. And that isnt even accounting for the prior rallies, just the last push.

---

I just decided to change this sig.
Blaaaaaaargh Advokaiser

_SecretSquirrel posted...

I feel like having Xenoblade on the list, but not P4G immediately after it is kind of weird.

Yup I slightly get into it but there are two factors:

1) It is VERY crowded at the bottom there.
2) Rallies. The real gap is slightly bigger.

---

I just decided to change this sig.
Blaaaaaaargh Advokaiser

0 (voted 1 lololol) but 2 49s, Mass Effect 2 and Persona 5. I was literally 0.03% from 50 on Mass Effect 2 thats so irritating haha.

---

I just decided to change this sig.
Blaaaaaaargh Advokaiser

MetalmindStats posted...

I know I'm late to the conversation of the top 10 games in this field, but it's an interesting enough topic that I wanted to give my two cents anyways. (Plus, it's not like there's anything compelling being discussed right now.)

1. Breath of the Wild (obviously)
2. The Witcher 3 (almost as obviously, in my opinion, with mildly SFF'd God of War being about on par with mildly SFF'd Xenoblade and non-SFF'd HGSS)
3. Super Smash Bros. Ultimate
4. Super Mario Odyssey
5. Persona 5
6. The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim (all nearly on par, I'd say, but I think the back half of Division 8 is still being overrated)
7. Dark Souls (needed an incredible stroke of good luck just to exceed 58% on The Last of Us, and 63% on MGSV is likewise much worse than 64% on Spider-Man and 61% on Mario Kart 8, so I don't take it to even be in the same tier as 3-6)
8. Super Mario Galaxy 2 (I have tremendous respect for The Witcher 3's strength this contest, so almost breaking 40% on it is very impressive to me)
9. God of War (I think this is where the floodgates open - the preceding eight games are all practically surefire top 10 placers, but there's a clump of several close games from here on down)
10. Portal 2 (I'm still unsure what exactly the Witcher 3/Persona 5 percent will look like, but I know the former will have to shoot for the moon to make Portal 2 look bad)
Dragon Quest XI, Mass Effect 2, and Xenoblade are all very close honorable mentions, and then I think the likes of Resident Evil 2, Link Between Worlds, Persona 4 Golden, Red Dead Redemption, and Pokmon HGSS are all 1-2 percentage points below those three. The Last of Us was also a top 10 contender based on its pre-leak results, but not anymore.

Portal 2s good but its not that good, I would drop it and SMG2 (though I have a lot of time for the SMG games, if it makes it depends on how far above SSBU Witcher actually is). I would say:

1. BotW
2. The Witcher 3
3. Skyrim
4. Super Smash Bros. Ultimate
5. Super Mario Odyssey
6. Dark Souls
7. Persona 5
8. God of War
9. Xenoblade Chronicles
10. Mass Effect 2

3-5 are basically interchangeable, and Id agree with the games competing for the last spot, perhaps minus P4G sans rallies.

---

I just decided to change this sig.
Blaaaaaaargh Advokaiser

Dreamgamer_lgbt posted...

I admit xenoblade had great story, but how can it be respected ? It was so uncomfortable to play , it felt like going backwards in the evolution of open 3d space in a game.

Im guessing based on your previous post you played it with the Wii remote, to which I again say... play it with the classic controller. The views not fixed at all. It would solve your problem entirely.

---

I just decided to change this sig.
Blaaaaaaargh Advokaiser

I want to see this copypastad for each day left of the contest, with the names and features changed.

---

I just decided to change this sig.
Blaaaaaaargh Advokaiser

Also play Xenoblade with a classic controller.

---

I just decided to change this sig.
Blaaaaaaargh Advokaiser

HaRRicH posted...

Also, just looking at the leaderboard again...LMS is really #4 right now -- tied for second place and one point behind first.

What in the world...?

People give LMS stick. Some of it may be deserved. But he does know his stuff, and has gotten way better over the years. He deserves respect.

---

I just decided to change this sig.
Blaaaaaaargh Advokaiser

I am a firm believer that Galaxy has been underrated (or has boosted), BUT SMO is definitely stronger based on polls. Really I still think SSBU=SMO indirectly, just look at how wacky the division 3 x-stats look for that.

Also P4 is unquestionably stronger (just look at it through RDR, which you would expect to boost since 2015), and even though it probably shouldnt be, P4G=P4.

---

I just decided to change this sig.
Blaaaaaaargh Advokaiser

I don't know if Dark souls has enough WRPG credit (It has always seemed to have more of a JRPG audience but really is pretty broad), and if it does I don't know if it is above Skyrim, which is still a very high entry on that hierarchy.

---

I just decided to change this sig.
Blaaaaaaargh Advokaiser

lol PS4 is a take.

The system has looked really good? And characters on PS4 looked really good in 2018? And God of War looked great until last match which clearly means it either got SFF'd, TW3 is god mode, or both?

---

I just decided to change this sig.
Blaaaaaaargh Advokaiser

Yes, because the top is higher (and busier) and the floor is lower. The average is probably about the same in terms of both mean and median but there are those larger gaps.

---

I just decided to change this sig.
Blaaaaaaargh Advokaiser

This is definitely the round where the WRPG big dogs assert themselves. I was always a Skyrim believer (until it gets to The Witcher that is) and this still slightly beating what I thought it would do. Pre-leak TLoU likely beats HGSS but post-leak I don't think it does, though I'd give it a shot at regular GSC pre-leak too. Pre-leak TLoU is likely a bit stronger than it was in 2015, and I think the Batman result bore that out. However what happened to TLoU mid-contest was remarkable, and kind of highlights how much more dynamic things can be now with the internet the way it is. Like the inverse of a release day match but nobody could see it coming.

I will say, this is all just furthering my belief that not only is GSC closer to the later Pokemon games than it is to RBY, the difference might not be large at all. We have never seen a post-GSC Pokemon game not run into a clear SFF match, with the possible exception of RSE (which looked normal, but was against a Nintendo game). People talk about X&Y like it's weak, but it was in a clear SFF stomp. I want to see how these games look indirectly, and I wish X&Y was here instead of HGSS.

---

I just decided to change this sig.
Blaaaaaaargh Advokaiser

MetalmindStats posted...

And on the other side, this is some suspect revisionism. The entire board knocks on Skyrim's weakness this contest for the first three rounds, and now that it's finally shown a bit of life, you're going to pretend it's right back to being clearly better than 44% on Melee pre-rallies? That's not even getting into how the votal erosion and doubled registered votes should have boosted GSC from 2015. Maybe Skyrim would beat GSC specifically in this contest because GSC isn't of this decade, but it doesn't seem like that's all you're implying.

Not at all. Look at my posts, I was never down on Skyrim. The only performance that looked off was round 2, and every time that came up I pointed out that there is absolutely no way that Journey has not gotten substantially stronger, not least because it was made free to everybody with a PS4 days before the match. A third of the site have a PS4 with no PS+, and many who do have PS+ would have missed it. Of course it was going to boost, I was very clear about this. I never thought Skyrim has gotten weaker. I took The Witcher because The Witcher is a beast, not because Skyrim got weaker. So those anti-Skyrim arguments are nothing to do with me, it wasnt the entire board.

And to the second point, I have always argued that GSC is one of the most overrated games in contest history. This goes right back to GotD1 when I was one of the biggest MM>GSC proponents on the board. I never regarded that game as elite, because it isnt, and I argued against the people saying that it would beat almost the entire field this time. In fact I pointed out that it would probably rank lower here than in GOTD1, which I stand by. To that issue I have raised the point that GotD1 GSC is likely overrated due to MMs bandwagon and rallies. Skyrim would have beaten GSC in 2015 (which was possibly overrated there too) and I have never believed that would not still be the case, and said as much recently.

This is all stuff I have been consistent about. Please dont lump me in with arguments I not only never agreed with, but actively argued against. And please do not accuse me of revisionism. I have made a bunch of bad calls, Im not trying to big myself up here. But seeing through GSC has always been one of my strengths. In GotD1 you literally had people insisting after the match that the result made no sense and GSC was still an elite, the blinders are firmly clamped on for a lot of people regarding that game. So give me some credit!

---

I just decided to change this sig.
Blaaaaaaargh Advokaiser

That was based on forecasts. Sony stopped giving quarterly updates before then. We will never actually know.

We also wont know this time either so its kind of meaningless.

---

I just decided to change this sig.
Blaaaaaaargh Advokaiser

The only one that I think comes close is Black/White. Maybe X and Y.

However, Skyrim most likely beats regular GSC. The only Pokmon that beats it is RBY.


---

I just decided to change this sig.
Blaaaaaaargh Advokaiser

This gen? Absolutely not, no. But the 360 was a different story.

---

I just decided to change this sig.
Blaaaaaaargh Advokaiser

Microsoft have been competitive in much more than just the US and the UK. That ones almost as bad as the Europe=Sony Land oversimplification.

Microsoft will never win Japan. But that is also a market that matters less than ever, and theyre hitting the growth markets hard. It is certainly possible for them to outsell the PS5.

Also the PS3 never officially outsold the 360. Microsoft stopped reporting hardware numbers three years before the 360 stopped production, so the current PS3 numbers are actually three years ahead of the most recent 360 numbers. In all likelihood the 360 stayed on top, but well never know for sure.

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

I don't even think it was the exclusives that did it, I think the PS3 being technically more powerful had a lot to do with it.

In the early part of the generation most single-platform reviews were on 360, but by the end (ignoring like, Skyrim and Mass Effect which had inferior versions) devs figured out how to maximize gains, and reviews seemed to transition to PS3 to reflect that.

The transition was to PC IIRC. PS3 versions stayed worse throughout with the odd exception, right up to Shadow of Mordor.

---

I just decided to change this sig.
Blaaaaaaargh Advokaiser

While I did see some disappointment aimed at Octopath, this topic is literally the first time Ive ever heard Bravely Default called underwhelming. It got rave reviews and was always well received. I think the poll results reflect that! I wouldnt call Octopath underwhelming either but hearing that applied to BD is just... odd.

However, I personally prefer Octopath.

---

I just decided to change this sig.
Blaaaaaaargh Advokaiser

PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

The more I see about this game, the more I honestly think Neil Druckmann is some kind of fucking bizarre deviant.

What's even more hilarious about this dog thing is that I guarantee that not a single one of these people would be upset that their friends were murdered too, but they'll be sobbing over a dead dog.

Like what the fuck. Why is this a thing in this game?

IIRC they actually do have names for the random enemies, who will call for their friends in combat. Same system basically. This is actually fairly impressive.

---

I just decided to change this sig.
Blaaaaaaargh Advokaiser

MechanicalWall posted...

I don't know the contents of the leaks but it would certainly ease my mind if the reason ppl are mad is because the game DARES to claim that gay people exist.

It isn't

---

I just decided to change this sig.
Blaaaaaaargh Advokaiser